"All-New, All-Different" Marvel Comics or "All-Derivative, All-Rehashed" Marvel Comics?

[Luck911]

Honestly maybe the comics aren't for you.Maybe you need a break. Maybe you need wait and sample see if you like the new stuff.

[Holt]

You don't see DC giving the Superman's, Wonder Woman's or Batman's identity to every other character every other year. You don't see DC creating new content either, but that's why I feel Marvel need actual talent to give them new sandboxes, instead of making every character an Avengers filled with Thors, Spider-Men and Caps.

Just before the reboot DC was in the midst of a story where Dick Grayson was the new Batman and continued to be one even after Bruce returned. They then launched a title about an entire international network of Batmen.

And DC has usually been at the forefront of replacing characters with more diverse versions. Jaime Reyes as the new Blue Beetle, Renee Montoya as the new Question, Jason Rusch as the new Firestorm, Ryan Choi as the new Atom, and many many other examples. And if we're not strictly talking diverse legacies they rather famously had Wally West and Kyle Rayner.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

All I'm saying is, Marvel is gonna hit a wall when people get bored of Iron Man, Thor and Cap.

[Holt]

All I'm saying is, Marvel is gonna hit a wall when people get bored of Iron Man, Thor and Cap.

And yet Batman has been consistently popular for decades.

And it's not like their upcoming film slate has a slew of new properties...oh wait.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

And yet Batman has been consistently popular for decades.

And it's not like their upcoming film slate has a slew of new properties...oh wait.

It still surprises me how Batman is still as popular as he is.

[FanboyStranger]

Going to be honest: most comics, especially those of the corporate superhero variety, tend to be "all derivative, all rehashed" comics. It's rare that we get a truly original concept with a novel approach to storytelling.

But that's not why these books exist. They exist to entertain and to make money.

[swerve]

All I'm saying is, Marvel is gonna hit a wall when people get bored of Iron Man, Thor and Cap.

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For sure.

[ijacksparrow]

I don't think he was complaining about the diversity. Actually, I think his point was that this book isn't really all that different from any other Avengers book. I think he was saying he wants something that is truly different, and he cited those other books as examples.

And I can understand that, to an extent. Wanting something original from Marvel is a request or expectation I can agree with. However, seeing a new Avenger book and being let down because it's not that different from other Avengers books....that just seems off. Why would it really be that different?

I don't understand what is wrong with the original superheroes that they need all kinds of different variations about them. Yes DC is to blame for the same kind of behavior, but not lately. Correct me if I'm wrong, but since the last "Crisis", Superman is Superman, Batman is Batman and Wonder Woman is Wonder Woman. And here is where it gets tricky: DC is to blame for not trying something new as much as Marvel, but when Marvel tries something "new", it's basically a derivative character from an established one. "It's hard to create new characters that stick", yes, I get that, but why the hell they are forcing Inhumans into the mutants place instead of creating a new IP? I wouldn't mind that move if they completely reinvent the Inhumans from the ground up, just keeping the name and such, but that's not what Marvel is doing.

What Marvel is doing is turning the Inhumans in the X-Men, but at the same time bringing all the baggage and contrived storyline that the Inhumans have. Regardless how much Marvel tries to push Medusa, she seems a completely campy character to me, especially if you are going to place her as your "Professor X". I mean, her power is her hair. What I wish we would have, instead of versions of versions of version of these characters is... new stuff. I love Marvel and this All-New, All-Different Avengers and "Uncanny" Inhumans screams stagnation and rehashing of old ideas with derivative concepts.

I wish Marvel could be bold and create NEW stuff. Like they used to make in the past. And yes, Runaways and Next Wave wouldn't be new, and that's exactly what I'm saying: bring the Runaways and Next Wave back, give them talented writers and artists and the right push. Create NEW concepts, create new heroes and villains. I am tired of seeing Marvel using "pushing for diversity" as a getaway card for lazy editorial lines that keep creating versions of these characters time and time again. This isn't "thinking forward" to me. Runaways out of the left field concept in the other hand, it was. You don't need to retire the old characters and push for new ones that are replacement of the old ones, you can create different stories with the old ones, and new stories and concepts with the new ones.

I just think whatever "push" Marvel is doing, it made me went from "very excited for Secret Wars" to "yeah this is my jumping off point", and I don't think that's what they should be aiming for.

[teamhawkeyes]

The superhero titles may be the same, but the actual CHARACTERS themselves are not. Miles is not Peter. Sam is not Steve. New Thor is not Odinson. Kamala is not Carol. We don't even know who is in the Iron Man suit. These are new characters to the Avengers. Same superhero name, but different characters. These characters are more than just their powers.

[ijacksparrow]

But Slott just got done with a whole new Spidey with Superior. And when he was done with that we got Parker back. So basically what you're acknowledging is that sometimes new takes can inject fresh life into an old character and make even jaded old folks rave about what a great job the writer is doing with the classic character? I'm not a cap fan so I don't have anything to say about that, I don't want to read Falcon but then I didn't want to read Rogers either, but I've got no doubts that Thor is going entertaining places.

Yes, but that was still about Peter Parker and his life, it was a weird twist and maybe even gimmicky, but it was heavily focused on Spider-Man and his mythology.

Just before the reboot DC was in the midst of a story where Dick Grayson was the new Batman and continued to be one even after Bruce returned. They then launched a title about an entire international network of Batmen.

And DC has usually been at the forefront of replacing characters with more diverse versions. Jaime Reyes as the new Blue Beetle, Renee Montoya as the new Question, Jason Rusch as the new Firestorm, Ryan Choi as the new Atom, and many many other examples. And if we're not strictly talking diverse legacies they rather famously had Wally West and Kyle Rayner.

Agreed, I don't have that much knowledge about DC anymore, but correct me if I wrong: after their latest Crisis, Batman is Batman, Superman is Superman and Wonder Woman is Wonder Woman, am I correct? What I'm saying is that I can count on DC to deliver comics about the characters that aren't version of them, even though some of them I really dislike it (I can't stand New 52's Superman, from the very few things I've read). While Marvel well, we just have another derivative character after new derivative character, and we are supposed to look at this like Marvel is going bold and diverse with them. I sincerely don't think so, I think Marvel is just been lazy and not paying writers to create ALL-NEW and ALL-DIFFERENT content for them.

What I hate about DC is that they are sitting on great concepts like Gen-13 and doing NOTHING with them, other than make them a derivative version of the Teen Titans or something. What I'm getting from Marvel is that their new Marvel is just a rehash of their old ideas with different version of the old characters that know are ethnically diverse. Yay. I mean, really? Can't they do better than that? Yay new version of Hawkeye that's not even Kate Bishop because diversity. How long until this trick is too old for others to start taking notice? And this is coming from someone that actually enjoy comics like Willow's Ms. Marvel and Aaron's Thor. But then again, those pointing that comics are not for me anymore are probably right, but I do feel that Marvel is the one making me going away, instead of me growing out of these comics.

[xcoijoi]

I don't know, it doesn't seem that bleak to me. I was kinda of soured to most of the Marvel titles for years, so it's not like the expectations were that high. If Marvel wants to show me something different, and they can make a good visual or verbal case for taking a look, I'm open.

Besides, full immersive virtual reality will be here at some point, and - at least for me - it will make one-way fictional stories less interesting. When you can be part of the story, and even have sex with some of the fictional hotties (my wife said that would be fine, as long as they are virtual babes), then it no longer matters to me if they continue to weaken the Victor Von Doom character or retcon some of the best stories & characters.

Marvel is just trying to stay afloat, and I guess holding to what we're familiar with, isn't pulling in enough revenue.

[ijacksparrow]

I don't know, it doesn't seem that bleak to me. I was kinda of soured to most of the Marvel titles for years, so it's not like the expectations were that high. If Marvel wants to show me something different, and they can make a good visual or verbal case for taking a look, I'm open.

Besides, full immersive virtual reality will be here at some point, and - at least for me - it will make one-way fictional stories less interesting. When you can be part of the story, and even have sex with some of the fictional hotties (my wife said that would be fine, as long as they are virtual babes), then it no longer matters to me if they continue to weaken the Victor Von Doom character or retcon some of the best stories & characters.

Marvel is just trying to stay afloat, and I guess holding to what we're familiar with, isn't pulling in enough revenue.

My point is that they are doing it wrong. They are scaring away old readers hoping that they'll get new readers, instead of doing their best to keep their old readers that are open minded when it comes to change - I wouldn't mind if they reboot the whole thing as long as they creative new and cool content for the old characters and exciting and vibrant new stories from new characters, creating the NEW Marvel Universe, not the 10th version of Spider-Man, Captain America or whatever. I'm saying that Marvel making all their main characters legacy characters is a bad move, because if these characters are so replaceable, what is their worth? I miss Runaways and Next Wave because they are literally the most original stuff Marvel came up in the last 15 years, and why on Earth is so hard for them to push for new concepts instead of rehashing the old ones is beyond me.

[hawkeyefan]

I don't understand what is wrong with the original superheroes that they need all kinds of different variations about them. Yes DC is to blame for the same kind of behavior, but not lately. Correct me if I'm wrong, but since the last "Crisis", Superman is Superman, Batman is Batman and Wonder Woman is Wonder Woman. And here is where it gets tricky: DC is to blame for not trying something new as much as Marvel, but when Marvel tries something "new", it's basically a derivative character from an established one. "It's hard to create new characters that stick", yes, I get that, but why the hell they are forcing Inhumans into the mutants place instead of creating a new IP? I wouldn't mind that move if they completely reinvent the Inhumans from the ground up, just keeping the name and such, but that's not what Marvel is doing.

What Marvel is doing is turning the Inhumans in the X-Men, but at the same time bringing all the baggage and contrived storyline that the Inhumans have. Regardless how much Marvel tries to push Medusa, she seems a completely campy character to me, especially if you are going to place her as your "Professor X". I mean, her power is her hair. What I wish we would have, instead of versions of versions of version of these characters is... new stuff. I love Marvel and this All-New, All-Different Avengers and "Uncanny" Inhumans screams stagnation and rehashing of old ideas with derivative concepts.

I wish Marvel could be bold and create NEW stuff. Like they used to make in the past. And yes, Runaways and Next Wave wouldn't be new, and that's exactly what I'm saying: bring the Runaways and Next Wave back, give them talented writers and artists and the right push. Create NEW concepts, create new heroes and villains. I am tired of seeing Marvel using "pushing for diversity" as a getaway card for lazy editorial lines that keep creating versions of these characters time and time again. This isn't "thinking forward" to me. Runaways out of the left field concept in the other hand, it was. You don't need to retire the old characters and push for new ones that are replacement of the old ones, you can create different stories with the old ones, and new stories and concepts with the new ones.

I just think whatever "push" Marvel is doing, it made me went from "very excited for Secret Wars" to "yeah this is my jumping off point", and I don't think that's what they should be aiming for.

Okay, I think I misunderstood your complaint...it is the legacy/derivative characters that bothers you.

I can understand that. Personally, I look at the number of Batman books, or Batman-esque books that DC puts out and it seems silly. Batman, Detective, Batman and Robin, Bathirl, Batwoman, Nightwing, Batwing, Talon, and on and on. I know some of those are gone or changed at this point, but at the end of the day it's all Batman.

I think Marvel has changed up their characters and is currently in the process of creating more legacy characters, but I don't think they're flooding the market like DC. Both the female and make Thor share a book, there is not a separate book for each one. Ms. Marvel is a legacy character of Captain marvel, but the books have a different feel....they don't cover the same ground.

The only area Marvel is a bit guilty of this is the X-Men and Avengers team books. They'll slap an x on the front of a team or add Avengers after another word and put it out there....and they rarely feel any different from one another. There are some subtle distinctions here and there, but usually they fall under the same umbrella.

Ultimately though , a superhero team book is going to be pretty similar to most other superhero team books, no? There might be minor distinctions such as this team is a rogue team hunted by the government or this team operates with the government and so on, but other than that, the variation is minimal.

However, if you are looking at the slew of books coming out along with Secret Wars and you don't see variety and some out there concepts, then I don't think you're going to find what you're looking for in mainstream superhero comics.

[Vic Vega]

Between Avengers Academy, Secret Avengers, Avengers Arena and Avengers A.I. we have had a whole bunch of books that redefined the Avengers concept lately.

ANAD isn't a complete redefintion its more of an updating of the core concept.

Its the difference between Original Trek and Next Generation as opposed to the difference between Oringinal Trek and say Deep Space 9.

[ijacksparrow]

Between Avengers Academy, Secret Avengers, Avengers Arena and Avengers A.I. we have had a whole bunch of books that redefined the Avengers concept lately.

ANAD isn't a complete redefintion its more of an updating of the core concept.

Its the difference between Original Trek and Next Generation as opposed to the difference between Oringinal Trek and say Deep Space 9.

Apt analogy, since I don't really care about whatever derivative Star Trek crew that came after the original. That's why people liked the first Abrams Star Trek film so much in the first place.