"All-New, All-Different" Marvel Comics or "All-Derivative, All-Rehashed" Marvel Comics?

[Kirby Krackle]

Black Bolt and Medusa are running around the Marvel universe recruiting Inhumans like we used to see with Xavier.

Have you read Inhuman? That's not what's happening at all. The doors of Attilan are open to any Nuhuman who wants to join, other than that Medusa has no strict policy of rounding them up. It's their choice, which is kind of a big deal in the book. And Black Bolt isn't even King right now, so he's not even involved with "recruiting". The only one doing recruiting is Lash, who is a bad guy.

[Gordonstar]

Giving a character a name some one else had increases sales. I can't expect a female Thor called thordis to sell as much as thor.

Seems odd to frown on it when Dc was doing it for years, look at flash and or Green Lantern. Jay isn't the main flash anymore. So many Robins, bunch of Wonder girls, Az Bats, Dick Bats etc. Kyle lasted awhile when Hal went mad. Also even the SuperMans over the years are not the golden age one.

Eventually they stop making adventures about the originals ones for awhile or a long time until they're ready to come back. Or never in Dicks case as Robin.

[ijacksparrow]

Have you read Inhuman? That's not what's happening at all. The doors of Attilan are open to any Nuhuman who wants to join, other than that Medusa has no strict policy of rounding them up. It's their choice. And Black Bolt isn't even King right now.

No I'm not. Let's play a game, let's replace what you said with the X-Men:

The doors of the Xavier's School are open to any new mutants who wants to join, other than that Xavier has no strict policy of rounding them up. Welcome to the X-Men, hope you survive the experience.

It's their choice. I get what you are saying dude, but my point is that they are mentor figures, and I don't think Medusa is a great character at all. Especially her powers, if they could get rid of her powers and just have her to be a different character it would be great. My personal opinion though, I just think it's silly how Medusa and Black Bolt are figuratively the new "Charles Xavier" of the Marvel Universe.

[ijacksparrow]

Giving a character a name some one else had increases sales. I can't expect a female Thor called thordis to sell as much as thor.

Seems odd to frown on it when Dc was doing it for years, look at flash and or Green Lantern. Jay isn't the main flash anymore. So many Robins, bunch of Wonder girls, Az Bats, Dick Bats etc. Kyle lasted awhile when Hal went mad. Also even the SuperMans over the years are not the golden age one.

Eventually they stop making adventures about the originals ones for awhile or a long time until they're ready to come back. Or never in Dicks case as Robin.

DC's arguably best character and biggest seller has been Batman for decades. He had short stints where he was dead or paraplegic, but other than that he was always present. I just think I'm underwhelmed by the "all-new, all-different" Marvel Universe that is shaping up after Secret Wars, it just feels like "more of the same", instead of big and innovative ideas like Hickman's Avengers.

[Myetche]

Have you read Inhuman? That's not what's happening at all. The doors of Attilan are open to any Nuhuman who wants to join, other than that Medusa has no strict policy of rounding them up. It's their choice.

From what I'm seeing, Medusa would prefer that all Inhumans move to Attilan "for their safety", regardless of what they choose. She only grudgingly tolerates any Inhuman's decision not to join her.

Heck, the whole reason Lockjaw is hanging around with Kamala is because Medusa wants someone to watch her and report on what she's doing.

[Kirby Krackle]

No I'm not. Let's play a game, let's replace what you said with the X-Men:

The doors of the Xavier's School are open to any new mutants who wants to join, other than that Xavier has no strict policy of rounding them up. It's their choice. I get what you are saying dude, but my point is that they are mentor figures, and I don't think Medusa is a great character at all. Especially her powers, if they could get rid of her powers and just have her to be a different character it would be great. My personal opinion though, I just think it's silly how Medusa and Black Bolt are figuratively the new "Charles Xavier" of the Marvel Universe.

They are not mentoring anyone. Medusa is a Queen and she doesn't really deal with any of the NuHumans. She just has her kingdom open for anyone who has undergone terrigenesis. I'm actually reading the book. What you're describing is not happening. Black Bolt isn't dealing with any of the NuHumans, so it makes zero sense that you keep mentioning him. The option is just there as a form of a new home for all those who are of Inhuman blood. That's it. You're really stretching this to fit your view.

Read the book if you're gonna make claims like this.

[Arfguy]

Giving a character a name some one else had increases sales. I can't expect a female Thor called thordis to sell as much as thor.

Seems odd to frown on it when Dc was doing it for years, look at flash and or Green Lantern. Jay isn't the main flash anymore. So many Robins, bunch of Wonder girls, Az Bats, Dick Bats etc. Kyle lasted awhile when Hal went mad. Also even the SuperMans over the years are not the golden age one.

Eventually they stop making adventures about the originals ones for awhile or a long time until they're ready to come back. Or never in Dicks case as Robin.

I can respect DC having success with their legacy characters. In all honesty, when I think of Green Lantern, I can think that any one could potentially be a Green Lantern. GL being a legacy brand works. With Flash, I have a bit of a harder time, because I feel that there should be only one Flash. When I was growing up, people were really attached to Wally West. Barry Allen was a distant past Flash. I'm not even going to get into the other Flash before him. The point is, the Flash's origin that I'm familiar with (lightning strikes chemicals, which spills onto a human being, granting speed powers)...it seems like something that should happen once and never again.

I don't want Marvel to be like DC when it comes to legacy characters. If I want to read about 200 GLs and 14 different Flash characters, I'll read DC. If I want to read about Spider-Man, I want to be reading about Peter Parker. If I want to be reading Thor, I don't want to read about a female character who goes by Thor right now and has all Thor's powers, despite it being a really well written book. Why can't this character go by a name that actually stand on it's own? I didn't pick up Storm's book because I honestly didn't like the art. Russell Dauterman's art is awesome. Jason Aaron was doing great work with Thor with Esad Ribic. I'd expect him to have something cool if he has a new female to be worthy of Mjolnir. I just don't really want this new character to be worthy of Mjolnir to be called Thor.

[Kirby Krackle]

From what I'm seeing, Medusa would prefer that all Inhumans move to Attilan "for their safety", regardless of what they choose. She only grudgingly tolerates any Inhuman's decision not to join her.

Heck, the whole reason Lockjaw is hanging around with Kamala is because Medusa wants someone to watch her and report on what she's doing.

Medusa considers all those with Inhuman blood her subjects, as it's always been with the Royal Family. But in the series when someone doesn't want to stay, she makes it clear that they don't have to and can come back when ever they like.

[Trident]

In the "All-New, All-Different" Avengers cover we have A Spider-Man, A Ms. Marvel, A Captain America, An Iron Man, a(the? Possibly just like the movie's?) Vision and A Nova. They aren't the definitive versions of these characters. They are variations of the originals, and that's the point of my argument, I do think it weakens the brand of these characters, and when someone like Reviresco gets here and say there's nothing fresh and new about Peter Parker, they are actually making my point: Marvel is cannibalizing their brands, it might give them the headlines and a sales boost, but I think it'll be very harmful to them in the long run. What Marvel is doing creating all these versions of these characters no different than when the Death and Return of Superman cheapened what death means in the superhero comics.

Which makes me sad, because Marvel isn't a "product" to me. I've grew up with Marvel Comics, they are "home" to me. I've literally grew up with these characters, and when I say I'm thinking about leave, it's because I'm looking at these comics and noticing how awfully wrong Marvel is about to go with characters going forward. DC's Batman, regardless his several family titles, has something that Marvel is slowly giving away: he is THE Batman, the original one. That's why Batman is a hot title: great stories with a beloved character. Batman isn't just a name, neither is Spider-Man's or Captain America's IMHO. And since we are talking about Sam Wilson as well, people LOVED him in Winter Soldier. Where is the FALCON title instead of the Captain America one?

And the bold is part of your problem. I love Marvel and these characters too. I have literally been following the company and these characters since I first started reading. However, the difference between you and I is that I reconzie beyond anything else is that marvel is a business. And to be frank any business will do what they have to too gurantee long term success. Having multiple forms of essetinaly the same thing is just one form of guranteed success.

If that weren't true there wouldn't be mutiple flavored of ice cream, versions of Barbie, versions of CSI, and so on. Having different products of the same thing doesn't normally hurt the original brand it usually just builds it up in the end.

[Myetche]

Medusa considers all those with Inhuman blood her subjects, as it's always been with the Royal Family. But in the series when someone doesn't want to stay, she makes it clear that they don't have to and can come back when ever they like.

That doesn't mean it's what Medusa wants. I'm reading Ms. Marvel #13, and she's telling Lockjaw that she doesn't want Kamala running around out there on her own. She wants her in Attilan among her own kind.

[Arfguy]

And the bold is part of your problem. I love Marvel and these characters too. I have literally been following the company and these characters since I first started reading. However, the difference between you and I is that I reconzie beyond anything else is that marvel is a business. And to be frank any business will do what they have to too gurantee long term success. Having multiple forms of essetinaly the same thing is just one form of guranteed success.

If that weren't true there wouldn't be mutiple flavored of ice cream, versions of Barbie, versions of CSI, and so on. Having different products of the same thing doesn't normally hurt the original brand it usually just builds it up in the end.

I realize Marvel is a business and I won't argue that they need to look after what they are doing. However, I don't think your analogy of ice cream, CSI and Barbie really works. CSI isn't a title of a character. Shoot. I don't watch CSI (nor do I care!), so I can't make an analogy, so off I go to IMDb.

OK, back.

CSI: Miami - It's about a group of crime scene investigators. However, I do not think that there is another character that will come in, put on the glasses the exact same way after throwing in a punchline and then saunter off that just happens to be called Horatio Caine, but is black and a woman. That's trademark David Caruso's Horatio Caine. CSI: Cyber will not have an asian cop called Horatio Caine that has sunglasses.

See what I mean?

[ijacksparrow]

And the bold is part of your problem. I love Marvel and these characters too. I have literally been following the company and these characters since I first started reading. However, the difference between you and I is that I reconzie beyond anything else is that marvel is a business. And to be frank any business will do what they have to too gurantee long term success. Having multiple forms of essetinaly the same thing is just one form of guranteed success.

If that weren't true there wouldn't be mutiple flavored of ice cream, versions of Barbie, versions of CSI, and so on. Having different products of the same thing doesn't normally hurt the original brand it usually just builds it up in the end.

Let's agree to disagree here. I think it's your love for Marvel that is clouding your judgement, not mine. DC is doing the legacy game a lot more time than Marvel, and The Batman is arguably the most selling superhero title right now. Have you thought about why? Not just the obvious reasons that Snyder and Capullo are a great team. It's selling the way it's doing because it's THE Batman. It's Bruce Wayne, THE Batman that everyone knows and loves - Not me though, while I find him interesting I wouldn't say I exactly love the character. You don't mess with your brand, or what you're selling will get lost in the shuffle and people will go for what is more unique once they get bored of countless versions of the same thing.

Batman has family books, but only Bruce Wayne is the Batman. In the Marvel's corner, arguably one of their most popular characters is Wade Wilson's Deadpool, have you ever wonder WHY? Because only he is Deadpool. He had Deadpool Corps books, Zombie Deadpool and God knows what else, but at the end of the day, people like Deapool because he is Deadpool. When everyone is Captain America, everyone is Iron Man and Spider-Men and there are several Hulks, I do think it's fair to assume that people will start losing interest in the long game. I care about Spider-Man because of Peter Parker, not because of his powers. And the same goes for all other Marvel characters, Marvel should stop with the legacy craze they are doing and makes us remember why these characters are any good to begin with. They might get some boost at the beginning, but if that's the route they're going forward, I just don't think it's one I'll be interested on.

And I sincerely don't think I'm the only one thinking this way.

[Myetche]

Marvel should stop with the legacy craze they are doing and makes us remember why these characters are any good to begin with.

Ms. Marvel notwithstanding, because the name under Carol Danvers was not really any good to begin with. It's pretty telling when most people only know her as "that chick Rogue sucked the powers out of".

[ijacksparrow]

Ms. Marvel notwithstanding, because the name under Carol Danvers was not really any good to begin with. It's pretty telling when most people only know her as "that chick Rogue sucked the powers out of".

Completely agreed. Kamala Khan is more popular than the name "Ms. Marvel" ever could. Nobody cares about the name Ms. Marvel, they do care about Kamala, like you and pretty much any superhero fan with good taste does.

I'd rather see a Kamala Khan movie than a Carol Danvers movie any day of the week.

[Kirby Krackle]

That doesn't mean it's what Medusa wants. I'm reading Ms. Marvel #13, and she's telling Lockjaw that she doesn't want Kamala running around out there on her own. She wants her in Attilan among her own kind.

What she wants personally and what she wants as a queen and diplomat are two different things. As a queen, Nuhumans, like Kamala are free to come and go as they please. It's all covered in Inhuman. Does she want an eye kept out when it comes to Kamala? Of course. I'm not denying that. But at the same time she won't force her hand and make her stay.