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  1. #15121
    Don't Bully a Hurt Dragon Sergard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Potion View Post
    By the way, who is the guy in the background? Reminds me of Bunker because of the mask and the two bands at the back of the head. Is Jason meeting Bunker in Mexiko? Do they even know each other? I remember Roy and Starfire working together with the Teen Titans while Jason and Tim were trapped by the Joker. Did they meet afterwards?

  2. #15122
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergard View Post
    By the way, who is the guy in the background? Reminds me of Bunker because of the mask and the two bands at the back of the head. Is Jason meeting Bunker in Mexiko? Do they even know each other? I remember Roy and Starfire working together with the Teen Titans while Jason and Tim were trapped by the Joker. Did they meet afterwards?
    Bunker was a nice guy. I liked him, but I don't know how Lobdell could make him work with Jason as he's behaving and acting now.
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  3. #15123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergard View Post
    I see, there are a lot of literature references. And I have to admit I don't even know half of the mentioned titles. On the other hand I wonder what are the criteria, so that one can call similarities between two stories a "literature reference" - and when is something just pure coincidence. For example, I wouldn't go so far as comparing the first three Robins with Anne Shirley and Bruce with Marilla. At least in my opinion, it is only a very superficial similarity between Bruce and Marilla of having a "grumpy" personality and adopting a child (children) that changes them to the better. (And a little off-topic: I actually felt a little sorry for Marilla for not having a partner because she and Gilbert's father had been a couple in the past, but because of a quarrel the broke up and never got back together. If I remember correctly, it's even mentioned in the book that Marilla still regrets that break-up.)

    It probably also depends on which relationship one looks at. The relationship of Bruce to one of his adopted sons may look like Marilla and Anne, but regarding the four brothers and how they are presented, I don't feel like there are three Annes and one Puck/Peter Pan. I rather like to compare them with the four sisters of "Little Women" (or even the sisters of "Pride and Prejudice").

    Interesting that you mention the Deacon Blackfire issue. That was Detective Comics #982. I didn't even connect the dots with Ra's al Ghul. Although, in my defense, when I read the issue, it was in the middle of the night and I was baking a cake. I even had to read the name of the kidnapped boy - Joshua - twice because the first time I read "Jason" (I repeat: middle of the night, cake, I was really tired.) And from that point forward I couldn't get rid of the thought that everything was some kind of metaphor with Joshua being Jason - the kid who is trapped in the darkness and needs to be rescued by Batman. At some point Batman even calls for Robin (although Damian isn't part of the mission.), which makes me wonder if Batman was really calling for Damian - or for Robin Jason or Robin in general.
    I could absolutely see the Robins as the sisters from Little Women and Pride and Prejudice. They're definitely the Power Puff Girls. Actually, after sleeping on it, Damian's maybe more of an Anne Shirley than any of the others as his tendency to run wild, do creative things, and seek out bosom buddies are pretty well established character traits. I haven't read the Anne books, Little Women, or any Austin for years. I don't know which character each Robin would best represent.

    As someone who spends too much time on lit sites, I say all of these hat tips count and allusions count. Possibly because they're easy to find. I tried to find all the ones in Paul Trembly's Head Full of Ghosts and only found a quarter of the ones he's said are there (others have found them all; I think they cheated by using collaboration).

    I can see why you thought it was Jason, you're a Jason fan and all the post animated movie Damian fans didn't catch that it was Damian. There's also the fact it was Jason's Robin who saved Bruce from Blackfire, and gave him the strength to break his Stockholm Syndrome and conditioning and defeat the Deacon. I'm a Damian fan first, Jason second. For me, Bruce's calling out Robin confirms that it was Damian since he's the only one that both Bruce and Dick have referred to as Robin outside of uniform. What's really interesting is back in Morrison's Batman and Robin, his deranged clone sees Damian outside of uniform and recognizes him as both his son (or as the clone says, greatest mistake, and bad blood which Bruce repeats in Incorporated 13) and Robin despite Damian's becoming Robin well after his death; and Bruce's frequent swearing he'd never be Robin. (Bruce rejected Damian as Robin three times before his death, and yes, that too was a reference but it's Morrison. Morrison appears to have a goal of at least four references per page.)

    The whole issue is a way for him to work through the fact that in the original story, as Talia pointed out, Ra's had a time limit and all that needed to happen to win was keeping Damian safe for a few days. Instead Bruce went after Ra's, and was manipulated, via the threat to Tim, to getting Ra's to the one place the transfer could happen. So it was a redemption story of sorts, and a reference to Damian having the darkest past of any member of the Batfamily or hero community (apparently the numbers of deaths he's directly responsible for is high six figures, or over seven figures).

    Jason's past is dark and bad, but it's still in the normal range compared to Damian. Remember, according to Talia and Durca, he has an incorruptible heart of pure pureness. Jason's a Sailor Scout. He might even be Sailor Moon, because Bruce sure isn't anymore.

  4. #15124
    Don't Bully a Hurt Dragon Sergard's Avatar
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    Pete Woods: "On the desk today- Jason beating people up. Itís his thing." (source)




    Seems like Jason and Wingman aren't best buddies.
    But Jason has finally taken the katana out of the bag - and is still not using it.

  5. #15125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mastermind View Post
    Jason's probably the most underrated Batman character out there.

    He's been handled terribly in the past, but the New 52 version is an awesome mix of hero and badass.
    I think it helps to have a regular writer taking care of him for the past several years. Love Jason's badass attitude; this is what he was meant to be.

  6. #15126
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oasis1313 View Post
    I think it helps to have a regular writer taking care of him for the past several years. Love Jason's badass attitude; this is what he was meant to be.
    While I agree with you this is likely his intent by Judd Winnick, it's the dark trinity run that made me care about Jason as anything more than a plot device or cannon fodder when DC needed a Robin to bite it. Making him a poor-man's Punisher doesn't work when they want to maintain his connection to Batman for sales boost crossovers.

  7. #15127
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    So....looks like bizarro and Artemis aren’t returning?

  8. #15128
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkcrusade25 View Post
    So....looks like bizarro and Artemis aren’t returning?
    Last news we had, they were planned to return, even if it was going to be for an actual goodbye story. But that was when the new "run" started. And a lot of stuff has happened in DC since then, a lot of changes, I think
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  9. #15129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    Last news we had, they were planned to return, even if it was going to be for an actual goodbye story. But that was when the new "run" started. And a lot of stuff has happened in DC since then, a lot of changes, I think
    I hope they come back. They made a far better supporting cast for Jason than Roy and Kory. But Jason has proven he can carry a book by himself.

  10. #15130
    Caperucita Roja Zaresh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oasis1313 View Post
    I hope they come back. They made a far better supporting cast for Jason than Roy and Kory. But Jason has proven he can carry a book by himself.
    I agree. They work better than the previous team, better chemistry, more balanced and more fun dynamics.
    The reason I suspect Art and Biz are going to be away for a while more is how well the book is doing, precisely. It seems that Solo!Jason works as well as Team!Jason sales wise, even if I prefer him in a team (not that I dislike him by himself, but just not forever by himself is what I mean; he needs people to shine with all his range of traits and emotions, too).
    Always changing; ever the same.

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  11. #15131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    I agree. They work better than the previous team, better chemistry, more balanced and more fun dynamics.
    The reason I suspect Art and Biz are going to be away for a while more is how well the book is doing, precisely. It seems that Solo!Jason works as well as Team!Jason sales wise, even if I prefer him in a team (not that I dislike him by himself, but just not forever by himself is what I mean; he needs people to shine with all his range of traits and emotions, too).
    Second that. Jason doesn't need to be "Jason and" anybody. The other characters are just there to frame HIM. Sure, Artemis and Bizarro are a lot of fun, but they could be traded for, say, Frankenstein and Platinum (from Metal Men) and you could do a great story,

  12. #15132
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaresh View Post
    I agree. They work better than the previous team, better chemistry, more balanced and more fun dynamics.
    The reason I suspect Art and Biz are going to be away for a while more is how well the book is doing, precisely. It seems that Solo!Jason works as well as Team!Jason sales wise, even if I prefer him in a team (not that I dislike him by himself, but just not forever by himself is what I mean; he needs people to shine with all his range of traits and emotions, too).
    To be honest, I found more engaging the character dynamics of the old Outlaws than the Dark Trinity. This because whereas Roy and Kory had engaging personalities that allowed them to work on stories completely on their own, while the Dark Trinity bored me out of my skull when they didn't have Jason around (Artemis in particular).

  13. #15133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark_Tzitzimine View Post
    To be honest, I found more engaging the character dynamics of the old Outlaws than the Dark Trinity. This because whereas Roy and Kory had engaging personalities that allowed them to work on stories completely on their own, while the Dark Trinity bored me out of my skull when they didn't have Jason around (Artemis in particular).
    I really wanted to like the dark trinity, but unfortunately I have to agree with this.

  14. #15134
    Don't Bully a Hurt Dragon Sergard's Avatar
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    I love the dark trinity. But I also love Jason going solo or teaming up with other people.
    Nevertheless, Artemis and Bizarro hold a special place since they are basically Jason's family.
    I hope the next annual will give us some information about their situation.
    If DC wants to entertain fans (including me) of the Countdown-Challengers from the Beyond, they even could temporary team up Jason, Donna and Kyle and let them travel through the dark multiverse to find Artemis and Bizarro. (It would also be interesting to see Artemis and Donna interact with each other).

  15. #15135
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergard View Post


    very nice
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

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