Jason Todd: Robin, Arkham Knight, Red Hood Appreciation 2018

[Godlike13]

See, he problem with this is that Grayson will ALWAYS return to Gotham and deal with crime Batman-style. That's why he becoming Batman was so well received, Grayson as character only has an end, succeding Bruce some way or another he could've faced a lot of things on the past but see him on the N52 his entire existance depends on Gotham and his relationship with Bruce. (and you're kidding yourself if you think than the spy angle will be permanent, sooner or later he will be back either as Nightwing or as Batman partner)

Jason lacks that baggage, he can be ANYTHING now add his former experiences with Batman and you have a character with TONS of potential that it only need to let goo the 'bat crutch' to see that potential realized.

Here the thing about that though. Jason is the one that runs around with a bat symbol on his chest, and who's book Bruce has appeared in more then in Nightwing, Teen Titans, or even Batgirl. Not to mention Jason has been pulled to Gotham just as much as Dick, and lately more so even. So just think about that next time before u start claiming Jason lacks that baggage.

And u say he can be anything now, yet what is he doing, running around with two of Dicks old friends doing random things. So he hasn't just showed dependence on Bruce, but on Dick too even.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Here the thing about that though. Jason is the one that runs around with a bat symbol on his chest, and who's book Bruce has appeared in more then in Nightwing, Teen Titans, or even Batgirl. Not to mention Jason has been pulled to Gotham just as much as Dick, and lately more so even. So just think about that next time before u start claiming Jason lacks that baggage.

And u say he can be anything now, yet what is he doing, running around with two of Dicks old friends doing random things. So he hasn't just showed dependence on Bruce, but on Dick too even.

You need to keep on mind that the Outlaws are pretty much new characters, there's barely any connection between Kory and Dick now while Roy is pretty much a stranger to Dick; story wise Jason is doing things for his own sake hanging around people he is comfortable, the same can be applied to the bat on his suit. There haven't been a single moment on the whole N52 where the bat becomes a major point for Jason characterization.

My comment about Grayson baggage is about how linked he is in the imaginary popular to Batman, talk to anyone old enough to be your grandparent or a little kid and they will have Batman & Robin firmly set on their minds, push the matter a little and Grayson's origin will come up. Extrapolate that with the character publishing story and Grayson's fate is to become Bruce succesor (he did on Morrison's run after and people was quite upset at him returning at the Nightwing persona). Jason on the other hand is a blank slate, really few people know about him and so there aren't expectations for him. You could try ANYTHING with him and outside of qulity issues on the plots you can't really argue about those stories going against his character.

Contrast it with Tim's status on the N52, without the Batman connection his character fell apart, directionless, RHATO had a really strong start and its first arc work perfectly keeping Batman's references at the minimum, the space arc is also well received with people complaints coming about plots left hanging and no the characterizations, Lobdell's final half of his run was tie-central but that was editorial driven to appeal Snyder and even then he managed to close the chapter between Jason and Bruce and left things open for Jason to have a new beginning.

Tynion and Tomasi came and tied to trash everything and turn Jason on another Batman-centric spin off but sales plummeted after that despite being something that people had claimed it was what Jason needed.

[Mister BoMan]

I wish there was a big "Legends of Jason Todd" book available, that reprinted highlights from his career as Robin.

I would love that!!

I disagree. I loathe the Nu52 with a passion, but what they did with Jason was a fantastic idea. I love Jason as Robin, but after Winnick finished UTRH, Jason wasn't really being written very well and quickly descended into faux Punisher territory. This new Jason is more likable and is more developed in my opinion.

I totally agree.

[Godlike13]

You need to keep on mind that the Outlaws are pretty much new characters, there's barely any connection between Kory and Dick now while Roy is pretty much a stranger to Dick; story wise Jason is doing things for his own sake hanging around people he is comfortable, the same can be applied to the bat on his suit. There haven't been a single moment on the whole N52 where the bat becomes a major point for Jason characterization.

My comment about Grayson baggage is about how linked he is in the imaginary popular to Batman, talk to anyone old enough to be your grandparent or a little kid and they will have Batman & Robin firmly set on their minds, push the matter a little and Grayson's origin will come up. Extrapolate that with the character publishing story and Grayson's fate is to become Bruce succesor (he did on Morrison's run after and people was quite upset at him returning at the Nightwing persona). Jason on the other hand is a blank slate, really few people know about him and so there aren't expectations for him. You could try ANYTHING with him and outside of qulity issues on the plots you can't really argue about those stories going against his character.

Contrast it with Tim's status on the N52, without the Batman connection his character fell apart, directionless, RHATO had a really strong start and its first arc work perfectly keeping Batman's references at the minimum, the space arc is also well received with people complaints coming about plots left hanging and no the characterizations, Lobdell's final half of his run was tie-central but that was editorial driven to appeal Snyder and even then he managed to close the chapter between Jason and Bruce and left things open for Jason to have a new beginning.

Tynion and Tomasi came and tied to trash everything and turn Jason on another Batman-centric spin off but sales plummeted after that despite being something that people had claimed it was what Jason needed.

They're not new characters though. They're there because they're not new but are recognizable. So ya they decided to rewite Kory to align her more with Jason, but Kory is still generally recognized as character associated with Dick and the Titans. U want to use Titans to help support Jason, ok fine, but there is a consequence in doing that.

And Jason is not a blank slate. He to is linked to imagery popular to Batman, even if only a few people know about him, what the few people know most is that he's the Robin that died. Nor can they try anything with him, because he's not big enough to support anything. This is why he has a Bat symbol on his chest. He did not do very well as Robin, it was only decades later they finally found something that people seem to respond to with him. But more and more now they're getting away from it, and by doing things like repurposing known associates of Dick to connect to him, they are making him more like Dick. He's becoming redundant. As inconsistent and Red Hood might have been before, one thing he was not though was redundant. He was doing things non of the other Robins could do. And thats just not the case anymore.

It'll be really interesting to see what happens to Jason, Kory, and Roy once RHatO runs its course.

[IndianaDrake]

Such as?



His mentors would know sooner or later. Jason isn`t a Fisk kind of character. He`s not the brain that stays lurking in the shadow, he takes action upon it. And you can`t survive in that kind of lead without taking some risks and making connections.



Agreed.



It`s a fine line to deal with. Look at Catwoman in Eternal, she`ll be a crimelord (not necessarily a villain), but she got the whole Bat-stable on her and she`s not even as lethal as Jason tends to be on other criminals. But yes, he should be doing whatever he does, because it`s what he believes is true. But..they kind of do that in RHATO too.

The small contention here seems to be that he doesn`t kill enough and that is what makes him stand out. His code of ethics, sarcasm, fire and lethality at the core do make him stand out, but in order for a character to grow, he should expand upon. He`s more than just a guy who can kill criminals. Maybe instead of being a "crimelord" he should lead a shadow squad. Like the League or similar. Maybe a new Al Caste. But how many would say that is giving him too much power?

If there were not any crime lords out there then there wouldn't be any crime for people like batman to fight would there. Jason could evolve in the story to be a very capable crime lord. One who actively avoids crime fighters. It wouldn't be to difficult to figure out away around it. I do think your right though, a Jason leading his own shadow squad or Al Caste would be preferable. Over all i just want a more harsh Jason. Not the Punisher level but just some one who views crime much differently then the rest of the Batfamily because of his upbringing and past experiences. Its because these differences that he handles crime differently.

[oasis1313]

Jason should just be allowed to do his own thing, not tied to Gotham or dragged into its claptrap. They should write him as a character with no fear and no limits.

[Daredevil is Legend]

Jason should just be allowed to do his own thing, not tied to Gotham or dragged into its claptrap. They should write him as a character with no fear and no limits.

I agree,lot's of good debate going around here though

I just want to be able to enjoy Jason Todd stories,the last story of Red Hood I enjoyed was Zero Hour before that it was the Court of Owls tie-in

[Neowing]

Jason should just be allowed to do his own thing, not tied to Gotham or dragged into its claptrap. They should write him as a character with no fear and no limits.

I agree. Jason has huge potential, hes different from all the other batfamily members. I personally would love if he became a space pirate or created the DC version of Starjammers.

[oasis1313]

I don't care for sweet likeable Jason--they can save that for Dick Grayson. I like my Jason to be cranky, sarcastic, and totally badass.

[Daredevil is Legend]

I don't care for sweet likeable Jason--they can save that for Dick Grayson. I like my Jason to be cranky, sarcastic, and totally badass.

That sound like the Judd Winick Jason lol

[Aioros22]

I don't care for sweet likeable Jason--they can save that for Dick Grayson. I like my Jason to be cranky, sarcastic, and totally badass.

That sounds like New52 Jason. Only time he was "sweet" was when Bruce admitted he never felt bad for having taken a chance with him. Which I am fine with. Jason isn`t a robot, a father figure telling a stranded son such a thing after the bad blood would make anyone boil.

The badass, it depends how badass you view him to be and what kind. He`s a bit different than before, but no less of a badass to me.

[Daredevil is Legend]

That sounds like New52 Jason. Only time he was "sweet" was when Bruce admitted he never felt bad for having taken a chance with him. Which I am fine with. Jason isn`t a robot, a father figure telling a stranded son such a thing after the bad blood would make anyone boil.

The badass, it depends how badass you view him to be and what kind. He`s a bit different than before, but no less of a badass to me.

interesting points

[JasonTodd428]

I don't care for sweet likeable Jason--they can save that for Dick Grayson. I like my Jason to be cranky, sarcastic, and totally badass.

I wouldn't call Jason sweet not even now. He's a bit more calm, less angsty and maybe more level-headed but certainly not "sweet". He is also still cranky, sarcastic and a badass. That hasn't changed or at least I don't really feel that it has. What has changed is his perspective and how he views himself.

[Darkspellmaster]

I like that they made him more level headed, but at the same time he's always struck me as more a loner. Or rather more of a solo artist. Not that he can't work in a team, but he's more likely to get things done on his own, or with small amount of help. I don't know how I feel about this Jason. I like and don't like aspects of him. Losing the angst was a plus but I kinda always thought it would make more sense for him to be more a daredevil like character in that he deals with things that Batman may never seem to have time for. Have him be the red hood but also working as a PI, that might be interesting.

[Daredevil is Legend]

I like that they made him more level headed, but at the same time he's always struck me as more a loner. Or rather more of a solo artist. Not that he can't work in a team, but he's more likely to get things done on his own, or with small amount of help. I don't know how I feel about this Jason. I like and don't like aspects of him. Losing the angst was a plus but I kinda always thought it would make more sense for him to be more a daredevil like character in that he deals with things that Batman may never seem to have time for. Have him be the red hood but also working as a PI, that might be interesting.

Dude that would be awesome!! The untitled could be his version of The Hand and The All Caste could his version of The Chaste and being a globe traveling PI could be cool