Jason Todd: Robin, Arkham Knight, Red Hood Appreciation 2018

[Aioros22]

That's an interesting way to see it, and I agree. Still, the talk between Dick and Bruce fell short of delivering whatever significance it's supposed to have when I first read it. It reads better now that there's RHATO side by side to compare with and make you see the contrast

It`s just a nice constrast because it`s real. That said RATHO was better executed.

Although, certain fans will just tell you that RHATO is simply copying what Grayson has done for Dick, regardless of the nuances. :P

They would have to be devoid of any creativity, for obvious reasons.

[Aahz]

and recommend it to you guys (especially you Aahz).

Why?
It is not rthat I don't like the new direction, it is just that it is time that the writers start to give Jason some legacy as Robin apart from "being not Dick", "being out of control" and "being a failure" and that they really need to highlight (and clearly spell out) his positive skill and traits in they way they are doing it for example with Dick and Tim at the moment, otherwise we will never get consistent portrait of him across the franchise and more such crappy takes on him as in the Eternals.

And at the moment it is kind of the opposite, as soon as Jason kicks some ass (which happens rarely enough), half the time the writers seem to feel the need to come up wit an explanation like Jason was cheating, his opponent was holding back or is opponent was weakened by something.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Why?
It is not rthat I don't like the new direction, it is just that it is time that the writers start to give Jason some legacy as Robin apart from "being not Dick", "being out of control" and "being a failure" and that they really need to highlight (and clearly spell out) his positive skill and traits in they way they are doing it for example with Dick and Tim at the moment, otherwise we will never get consistent portrait of him across the franchise and more such crappy takes on him as in the Eternals.

And at the moment it is kind of the opposite, as soon as Jason kicks some ass (which happens rarely enough), half the time the writers seem to feel the need to come up wit an explanation like Jason was cheating, his opponent was holding back or is opponent was weakened by something.

Matter of perspective. You wouldn't believe the sheer amount of people I've found believing that Lobdell writes a "so perfect" Jason able to beat everyone's ass. When actually he bothers to keep things properly in scale and was Tynion the one that wrote Jason beating everyone effortlessly.

[Aioros22]

I`ve said this before. You gotta take the good and the bad. What was the excuse for Shiva and Cass and Bronze Tiger and Talia? His record is among the best since he came back. I know Aazh won`t agree with me on this and I get that he`s talking more about how his character and abilities are kind of pushed under in some crossovers, but it happens to everyone..save Batman.

Slowly and steady let`s allow Jason t gain more and more of his footing in the larger DC mythos. He`s only returned in less than a decade and already accomplished a great deal.

[Darkspellmaster]

Would it be odd to say that Jason would and should be more of the Daredevil of the bat group in regard to his skills and the villains he faces?

[Aahz]

I know Aazh won`t agree with me on this and I get that he`s talking more about how his character and abilities are kind of pushed under in some crossovers, but it happens to everyone..save Batman.

Tim and Dick are quite pushed at the moment. We are constantly reminded that Tim is genius and in B&RE he was called Batmans only true partner, and Bruce said that he envied his stratgic sense, and Dick is since the start of "Grayson" in general presented as super awesome and the one person Bruce trusts the most.
And for Jason I don't saw that kind of push. That is not a big problem for his solo (even if I would definitely like to see Jason kick more ass than in RH/A) but it makes the big events for me as Jason fan hardly enjoyable to read, since it often feels that he is not really needed,and is imo not really helping to promote him (which is usually a reason why you put a character in a cross over).

What was the excuse for Shiva and Cass and Bronze Tiger and Talia?

It is said that
- Jason could only beat Shiva by using a short cut she showed him, and that she was otherwise out of his league
- He could beat Ras in sword fight because Ras couldn't control his new powers
- Cass was holding back when she fought him

Bronze Tiger was beaten by Starfire ad I don't remember him fighting Talia.

[Rise]

I saw this on twitter and it made me laugh

[G-Potion]

I saw this on twitter and it made me laugh

OMG Priceless!

[oasis1313]

Great pic. I'd rather see Jason AWAY from the Bat-Family. He owes them NOTHING.

[batnbreakfast]

Not a fan of Mr. Todd here but watching Michael Pitt in Boardwalk Empire I had an epiphany. He's Jason. The core/broad strokes of the character is there and how he develops over the course of the show. Manymany parallels between Pitt's character and Batman's second Robin. Now, thanks to that show and Michael Pitt I've started to like the Red Hood. Strange?

[Aioros22]

Aazh:

. Shiva was taken down in a single panel. If she allows a shortcut and he`s able to knock her down, whether she`s otherwise more skilled or not is kind of irrelevant. Nobody else of the franchise was written to be able to do the same save Bruce.

. "New powers". Yeah, Ras couldn`t take down someone who got used to "new powers" in mid fight.

. Jason was doing well against Bronze Tiger while getting lip service IIRC.

. Cass was said to not wanting to kill anyone later but Jason actively counter striked her and was about to. Again, whether Cass is supposed to be more skilled is irrelevant. Dick was punked in two panels while hyperboling himself.

. They didn`t fought. Jason simply learned a technique without a proper teacher that Talia had been instructed to learn (under Ducra) and never properly could.


He got lesser showings against Barbara (letting her hit him) Bane (figthing like an in diot) and Damian (hit and run) but all in all, I don`t feel much need to complain. Could always be better but that`s besides the point.

[Aahz]

Aazh:

. Shiva was taken down in a single panel. If she allows a shortcut and he`s able to knock her down, whether she`s otherwise more skilled or not is kind of irrelevant. Nobody else of the franchise was written to be able to do the same save Bruce.

. "New powers". Yeah, Ras couldn`t take down someone who got used to "new powers" in mid fight.

. Jason was doing well against Bronze Tiger while getting lip service IIRC.

. Cass was said to not wanting to kill anyone later but Jason actively counter striked her and was about to. Again, whether Cass is supposed to be more skilled is irrelevant. Dick was punked in two panels while hyperboling himself.

. They didn`t fought. Jason simply learned a technique without a proper teacher that Talia had been instructed to learn (under Ducra) and never properly could.


He got lesser showings against Barbara (letting her hit him) Bane (figthing like an in diot) and Damian (hit and run) but all in all, I don`t feel much need to complain. Could always be better but that`s besides the point.

That doesn't change that the writers made it quite clear that Jason wasn't on the level of the opponents he took down.

Fights where Jason clearly wins against a dangerous opponent without a comment like this have been quite rare, pre flashpoint. Jason gets even in his own book much more kicked around than the other Batfamily members.

And Bronze Tigers was actually about to kill Jason when Starfire steped in.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

PreFlashpoint Jason was never depicted as winning a fight without cheating either.

[oasis1313]

They need to start treating Jason's book like it's JASON'S book. He deserves better than he's getting.

[REAL]

I saw this on twitter and it made me laugh

Good one, Rise.