Jason Todd: Robin, Arkham Knight, Red Hood Appreciation 2018

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[Tigrex-22]

I think one of Jason's problem is that he's not the favorite Robin of any of the current writers and many fans of the other Robins dislike him.
So, he will mostly be used to make the others look better.
Also the failed Robin stuff doesn't help, although it was added later.

Another problem is that after Under the Red Hood nobody knew what to do with him, which led to a lack of development of Jason himself and a lot of bad writing until the New 52.
Then people got mad because Starfire and Arsenal were added to complete the Outlaws with Jason, while Dick lost his connection with them and the broader DC Universe in general.

But i think the main problem is that while Jason was dead, the other Robins got one feat after another over a long period of time.
When Jason came back from the dead, he needed a lot of feats in a short amount of time, so he could be able to challenge the Bats in the first place and still needs more of them, when you think about the way he is treated when he has to team up with them.
But his naysayers use this to call him a wish fulfillment character and ignore his feats and most of his training to make him look bad in comparison to their favorite Robins.

[Aahz]

@ Tigrex-22

I have to agree. But I think if the writers would put more effort into it, and portrait him in more balanced way (Miller did for example imo a brilliant job in writing him as Robin in Last Crusade), that it would be possible to improve his image/reputation.
But some writers are really doing the opposite and are really enforcing the (imo wrong) prejudices about him, and are making constantly jokes about him. His portrait B&RE would have been already massively improved if they just removed some of the dialogue.

[Tigrex-22]

Miller and Tomasi to a degree were the last good ones.
Lobdell's writing is completely ignored by the Bat-writers, so his development of Jason doesn't improve his situation in the Bat-Family.
I only have the first Volume of B&RE so i can only talk about that part of the story.
But you're right with the dialogue of Jason, which is often just cringeworthy.
Also his equipment is rendered useless way to often and his fights are lackluster.

I think if someone would take the time to revisit all of Jason's history and use that knowledge to make a coherent timeline and to explain what his strengths and skills are, it could solve most of his problems.

[Aahz]

Miller and Tomasi to a degree were the last good ones.

I think Pak did also quite a good Job in Batman/Superman.

But you're right with the dialogue of Jason, which is often just cringeworthy.

It is also what the other characters say over him.

Also his equipment is rendered useless way to often and his fights are lackluster.

Yeah the issue with fight against Bane in B&RE is the primary example.

I think if someone would take the time to revisit all of Jason's history and use that knowledge to make a coherent timeline and to explain what his strengths and skills are, it could solve most of his problems.

Thats imo something Lobdell should finally do. I think that for example last Crusade or Arkham Knight Genesis did a better job at it as Lobdells origin stories sofar.

[Aahz]

I think if someone would take the time to revisit all of Jason's history and use that knowledge to make a coherent timeline and to explain what his strengths and skills are, it could solve most of his problems.

Btw. if one really goes back to Starlins run, and looks how terribly Bruce failed in that time, I think that it would be quite easy to come up with a narative who what happend their lead to Jason going to the "Dark Side".

- You have Ten Nights Of the Beast, which was probaly the first Time Bruce faced an Opponent that was to dangerous for him

- The Cult where a villain managed to breack Bruce and to almost destroy Gotham

- the death of Kate Babcock by the Dumpster Slasher, and later this guy going free on a technicality (OK Jason never met Kate on panel, but it wouldn't be a big issue to change that, and her death even drove Bruce nearly over the edge)

- than of course Diplomats Son with the death of Gloria Stanson

- and finally Killing Joke (it is strange that they never really went into what effect this had on Jason)

- maybe you could even bring Legends, Darkside got the people to turn against the heros and Jason got beaten to death by an angry mob into the mix

If you put that together you could probably quite easily make a compelling narrative about who Jason stopped to believe that Bruce methods are working, and got increasingly darker, aggressive and more cynical.

[Tigrex-22]

You mean the annual right?
Wasn't that the last time he used the All-Blades.

Right, he's treated like an amateur and the Bane fight is just weird.
He gets his helmet destroyed by normal Bane and Tim does negotiations with Jason's gun.

Miller can write a great Batman when he wants to and his Jason greatly benefits from that.
AK:G is a bit over the top but Tomasi writes a Jason who is a lot more capable than the one in the game.

I still have a lot of catching up to do with those older comics but your idea seems pretty good to me.
The problem with the Killing Joke, in this case, is that Babs and Jason didn't interacted with each other before that and without a established dynamic it's difficult to write anything about it.


Sry, but i don't know how to do those separate quotations while mobile.

[Aahz]

You mean the annual right?
Wasn't that the last time he used the All-Blades.

I meant Batman/Superman #26, but the Annual was also OK

I still have a lot of catching up to do with those older comics but your idea seems pretty good to me.
The problem with the Killing Joke, in this case, is that Babs and Jason didn't interacted with each other before that and without a established dynamic it's difficult to write anything about it.

They interacted in Batman Annual #13 and Gotham Knights #43, and they could also use that to establish what the relation between them was back than.

[Assam]

There IS definite bias against Jason in the DC writing room. I'm of the opinion that each Robin each is weaker fighter than the last, while still supplying their own merits. So, by that logic, Jason would be the second best fighter among them. And while he's still portrayed as more competent than Steph because DC hates Steph more than George Lucas hates Star Wars, he's still often showed as nothing compared to Dick, Tim, and even Damian. Sad.

[Alycat]

Neither King nor Seeley at least hate Jason or Tim. Tynion obviously doesnt either, and I have some serious problems with Lobdells portrayl of Tim and Kori'/Roy's relationship with Dick but none of that seems like character hate and more like editorial making such a mess of things that other writers aren't sure where charcters were suppose to fit, which isn't the writers fault, and its no surprise that alot of Teen Titans or the first Red Hood get ignored when it was full of stuff that people hated. I think Rebirth has given us a much better understanding where everyones position should be ( Tim's nondeath and King's obvious twitter trolling people aside).