Jason Todd: Robin, Arkham Knight, Red Hood Appreciation 2018

[HeWhoSlapsAll]

One of the blades were even in the FE issue of RHatO.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

One of the blades were even in the FE issue of RHatO.

If you mean the Futures End issue, that was just a katana

[godisawesome]

Anybody else like the knives (the kris one and the UTRH Bowie) he had in that Hong Kong stash early on? Not gonna lie, I'd love to see a fight where Jason uses those against a sword wielder. There slick and sleek, and they seem to fit him better in my opinion than any swords. At least as usual carry weapons; a katana/sabre would still be part of a lethal heroes armory, but knifes would be lighter and a bit more versatile while roof-hopping.

[Rac7d*]

Lol, it's not up to Lobdell, if that's what DC/editors want him to do. Also, The blades have been seen in non-RHatO Jason appearances, so clearly DC, and/or other authors, like the blades. I bet, the moment Lobdell goes to another title (which we all know he will eventually), those blades will come back. Also, having a Talia centric are for Jason would be awsome; he shouldn't let stupid personal biases get in the way of a potentially really good story.

The blades aren't even necessary for him to do that kind of story.

Wont talia and ra's arcs be featured in damias new title.... there might be crossover potential but

[HeWhoSlapsAll]

If you mean the Futures End issue, that was just a katana

Most likely, but it could also be that artists depiction of the the sword. Still, doesn't change the fact that Lobdell was the first to have Jason use those swords, and that he started the All Caste story, despite Tynion effing it up.

There's still a good chance that we see Ra's and Talia show up in RH/A.

[HeWhoSlapsAll]

Anybody else like the knives (the kris one and the UTRH Bowie) he had in that Hong Kong stash early on? Not gonna lie, I'd love to see a fight where Jason uses those against a sword wielder. There slick and sleek, and they seem to fit him better in my opinion than any swords. At least as usual carry weapons; a katana/sabre would still be part of a lethal heroes armory, but knifes would be lighter and a bit more versatile while roof-hopping.

I loved that knife, and have been disappointed that RH hasn't been shown using it. Just like the short swords, the knife is also a smart weapon for Jason to keep.

Yes, those forearm blades are cool, but the swords and the knife allow for him to fit in more skillful ways.

Wont talia and ra's arcs be featured in damias new title.... there might be crossover potential but

I hope this happens.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Most likely, but it could also be that artists depiction of the the sword. Still, doesn't change the fact that Lobdell was the first to have Jason use those swords, and that he started the All Caste story, despite Tynion effing it up.

There's still a good chance that we see Ra's and Talia show up in RH/A.

That is exactly my point, Lobdell introduced the concepts but after Tynion poisoning that well he doesn't wanna know anything about them. And no, it was a Katana. The All Blades have a defined design.

And again, as long Lobdell is at the helm is unlikely Ra's or Talia will show up. His entire philosphy with Jason is to kept him away of anything coming from his Pre N52 version.

[HeWhoSlapsAll]

That is exactly my point, Lobdell introduced the concepts but after Tynion poisoning that well he doesn't wanna know anything about them. And no, it was a Katana. The All Blades have a defined design.

And again, as long Lobdell is at the helm is unlikely Ra's or Talia will show up. His entire philosphy with Jason is to kept him away of anything coming from his Pre N52 version.

If Lobdell introduced the concepts, and the story, then it's contradicting that he wants Jason to be "kept away" from his pre-Nu52 roots; he's the one that told us that it was Talia that saved him, and put him in the All Caste.

Hell, the All Caste seems to be something the Batman Editorial part of DC wants. The fact that Lobdell did it first, and now once again has control over the depiction of Jason makes it more likely that he'd want to bring back Talia and Ra's to write the story, and characters, properly. Similar to what Hickman is doing with Ult. Reed and the 616 FF, now that he has control of the characters again.

Regardless, Talia and Jason's relationship is a very interesting one and is a good foundation for writing a story arc. I doubt Lobdell will past it up, especially seeing as he was the one gaves us the first glimpse at their relationship, and seeing as the All Caste is clearly DC editorial thing (aka Lobdell has no choice if they want to revisit this). Hell, even Essence has shown up after Tynion's run.

Stop fighting it, yo. There's no good reason why Ra's and Talia don't show up again, and it would be nice to see Lobdell's take on the confrontation. Why would a RH writer want to rid Jason of such a big time rogue anyway? Makes no sense.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

If Lobdell introduced the concepts, and the story, then it's contradicting that he wants Jason to be "kept away" from his pre-Nu52 roots; he's the one that told us that it was Talia that saved him, and put him in the All Caste.

Hell, the All Caste seems to be something the Batman Editorial part of DC wants. The fact that Lobdell did it first, and now once again has control over the depiction of Jason makes it more likely that he'd want to bring back Talia and Ra's to write the story, and characters, properly. Similar to what Hickman is doing with Ult. Reed and the 616 FF, now that he has control of the characters again.

Regardless, Talia and Jason's relationship is a very interesting one and is a good foundation for writing a story arc. I doubt Lobdell will past it up, especially seeing as he was the one gaves us the first glimpse at their relationship, and seeing as the All Caste is clearly DC editorial thing (aka Lobdell has no choice if they want to revisit this). Hell, even Essence has shown up after Tynion's run.

Stop fighting it, yo. There's no good reason why Ra's and Talia don't show up again, and it would be nice to see Lobdell's take on the confrontation. Why would a RH writer want to rid Jason of such a big time rogue anyway? Makes no sense.

Because it limits his potential as character.

Using Talia or Ra's puts Jason squarely into Bruce's shadow instead of letting him being his own man.

You're kind of overstimating the presence of Ra's and Talia on RHATO. Under Lobdell Ra's only got a few mentions (and none of those by name) while Talia only showed up on a few panels on issue two and again on Secret Origin -nearly two years later. And just to explain Jason's resurrection and drop him with the All-Caste. The All Caste very existence is another sample of Lobdell wanting to give Jason a different backstory. He could've used the League of Assassins or crib Lost Days but he choose to build a whole new mythology instead.

You're right, Essence did showed up again. But she's completely different to Tynion's take.

[HeWhoSlapsAll]

Because it limits his potential as character.

Using Talia or Ra's puts Jason squarely into Bruce's shadow instead of letting him being his own man.

You're kind of overstimating the presence of Ra's and Talia on RHATO. Under Lobdell Ra's only got a few mentions (and none of those by name) while Talia only showed up on a few panels on issue two and again on Secret Origin -nearly two years later. And just to explain Jason's resurrection and drop him with the All-Caste. The All Caste very existence is another sample of Lobdell wanting to give Jason a different backstory. He could've used the League of Assassins or crib Lost Days but he choose to build a whole new mythology instead.

You're right, Essence did showed up again. But she's completely different to Tynion's take.

RH is already in Batman's shadow, due to all the Bruce-centric crossovers that paint him as a loyal Bat-fam member who will go to literal hell for the guy. Nothing Lobdell does will change that. This is a problem with Bat-fam members that won't be solved anytime soon. I'm still kinda turned off by how Jason wasn't turned off at how hard he fought to bring back Damian. Yeah, we saw the B&RH issue, but this time Bruce's obsession could've been sending them to their deaths, but Bruce didn't seem to care all that much because of his focus. I don't mind Jason going thru with the mission, but to just let that sh*t slide so easily was odd. Kind of tired of Bruce being a Gary Stu, and everything being fine, and dandy, because he won.

Lobdell wanted to give Jason a different background, but still had his current state heavily influenced by Talia...as did the Batman/DC editorial, with the Zero Year. He didn't do the secret league of assassin's, but he still did a secret group a of what are essentially mystic monks; it's not all that different. It's different in that the All Caste helped Jason to better control his anger ( well...more so after the Nu52 UtH; I still can't believe we've yet to see it...it probably should've been his story in Secret Origins).

With that outta the way, Ra's being a part of RH's rogue gallery is only a good thing. The fact that Ra's considers him such a threat is commendable, regardless of the writer. Besides, Jason seriously lacks Rogues, so Ra's being just one of them isn't a big deal. He should at least be involved with Jason thru his relationship with Talia; only makes sense. I'm also hoping for David Cain to join as a RH rogue. Maybe Deathstroke (unless you feel that puts Jason in Dick and Tim's shadows?). I don't see how an arc featuring a Jason save Talia from the influence of her father, and, potentially, rehabilitating her into a better person limits his character. That's something Batman could never do for Talia, and having Jason do that gives him something over Batman (besides being the mystic part of the Bat-fam).

Also, Essence showing up a being written competently is what I wanna see Lobdell do with Talia and Ra's. If he's willing touch Essence again, then Talia and Ra's are certainly not out of the question.

[Aioros22]

Still love Jason (favorite Bat-family character by far), but I agree with others when they say that he wasn't really an outlaw. Sure, I get that he hasn't been portrayed as a noble guy either, but, tbh, what I'm getting from the Lobo book is what I expected from a RH Outlaw book. It's not like such brutality is beyond Jason; UtH and RH:LD are prime examples of Jason Todd being that kind of outlaw.

You can agree with that one poster (who`s "they"?) that he wasn`t an outlaw, but you`d be wrong, simply.

That argument is just flat out embarassing. A character that acts out of the system, breaks people out of prisons, breaks-in Federal sites, whom the straight jackets like Superman and Supergirl feel uneeasy to be with, who constantly question his m.o, whom more than one writer in RATHO bothered to tell us that every main Federal Organization is just watching over in case he slips because of the rep sheet he got, and last but not the least, who does and will kill when necessary as viewed by himself, is an outlaw in every sense of the word. He does so with no regard to law whatsoever, his own compass being his code.

(Bruce has broken into a FBI bulding but he let Gordon know he was going to. That`s a contrast exemple.)

Being an outlaw is not defined by how much brutality you employ. That`s a sociapathy call. Talking about sociopaths, Lobo is classically a sociapath gun for hire.

What separates/stands Jason out of the villain or nutcase camp is his code of honor and acting on the greater good. That`s the reason the Justice League and Batman vouch for him when something big happens and he helps, despite being at odds with how he works. Otherwise he`d be in jail. One of the exemples you picked, "Lost Years" doesn`t have Jason do stuff he hasn`t done in the reboot, in all technically. He has killed and he has shut down slave child trades. What it does have, and here is what you may be trying to get at, is a different tone in presentation. Less superhero, more dirt n` grit. Which is the tone I`d like in stand alone (back) stories for Jason.

As for Talia and Ras debate, Talia being part of his life is almost mandatory, it will come up time to time. Ras less so, but I think it adds up for a rare ocurrence. Al Caste is a suberb concept for the bat line in particular to Jason and so are the gangs he was part of until Talia got him. All you need is a good writer to not fubar it. We`ve been kind of lucky thus far.

Love the pre-reboot blade, love the new swords, magical or otherwise. Still love the guns. Nothing says he can`t use any of this in different situations.

The being under the shadow argument, for my two cents, is simple: he`s part of a line with Batman as main centre. That will always happens, but you can and should make it less appearant in stories. Personally, I don`t feel Ras rarely showing up steers from that and I don`t think Jason not being angry at Bruce after rescuing Damian is bad or a misuse move that paints him as a puppet poster boy to Bruce. If you complain that he shouldn`t be all about Bruce then more "son" drama wouldn`t help.

Jason voiced his thoughts and concerns to Bruce (more like, told him to go fubar himself with the trust talk - as he should) and then agreed to help him. He already knew what was up and he knew what would happen if they made it. To me, the fact he doesn`t voice or shout at Bruce about it, tells me he grew up. Like Loedbell first wrote him saying: he overgrew certain elements of his life. He went there out of respect and to do a job and he left, like he has been doing in 90% of his crossovers with the Bat manor.

[Daredevil is Legend]

RH is already in Batman's shadow, due to all the Bruce-centric crossovers that paint him as a loyal Bat-fam member who will go to literal hell for the guy. Nothing Lobdell does will change that. This is a problem with Bat-fam members that won't be solved anytime soon. I'm still kinda turned off by how Jason wasn't turned off at how hard he fought to bring back Damian. Yeah, we saw the B&RH issue, but this time Bruce's obsession could've been sending them to their deaths, but Bruce didn't seem to care all that much because of his focus. I don't mind Jason going thru with the mission, but to just let that sh*t slide so easily was odd. Kind of tired of Bruce being a Gary Stu, and everything being fine, and dandy, because he won.

Lobdell wanted to give Jason a different background, but still had his current state heavily influenced by Talia...as did the Batman/DC editorial, with the Zero Year. He didn't do the secret league of assassin's, but he still did a secret group a of what are essentially mystic monks; it's not all that different. It's different in that the All Caste helped Jason to better control his anger ( well...more so after the Nu52 UtH; I still can't believe we've yet to see it...it probably should've been his story in Secret Origins).

With that outta the way, Ra's being a part of RH's rogue gallery is only a good thing. The fact that Ra's considers him such a threat is commendable, regardless of the writer. Besides, Jason seriously lacks Rogues, so Ra's being just one of them isn't a big deal. He should at least be involved with Jason thru his relationship with Talia; only makes sense. I'm also hoping for David Cain to join as a RH rogue. Maybe Deathstroke (unless you feel that puts Jason in Dick and Tim's shadows?). I don't see how an arc featuring a Jason save Talia from the influence of her father, and, potentially, rehabilitating her into a better person limits his character. That's something Batman could never do for Talia, and having Jason do that gives him something over Batman (besides being the mystic part of the Bat-fam).

Also, Essence showing up a being written competently is what I wanna see Lobdell do with Talia and Ra's. If he's willing touch Essence again, then Talia and Ra's are certainly not out of the question.

I like the way you think Sir.Ra's and Talia showing up isn't gonna keep Jason in Bruce's shadow anymore than he already is by being a loyal soldier.He wears a freaking bat logo on his chest.

[oasis1313]

I like the way you think Sir.Ra's and Talia showing up isn't gonna keep Jason in Bruce's shadow anymore than he already is by being a loyal soldier.He wears a freaking bat logo on his chest.

I HATE Jason wearing that Bat-logo.

[HeWhoSlapsAll]

I like the way you think Sir.Ra's and Talia showing up isn't gonna keep Jason in Bruce's shadow anymore than he already is by being a loyal soldier.He wears a freaking bat logo on his chest.

Haha, that's so true; completely overlooked him proclaiming to the world that he's a member of the Bat-army, with that ridiculous bat logo. They really need to change that design. Oh and the mask/helmet being a face thing, too; if it's not gonna be done as well as Anarky's mask, don't even bother (besides the mask always looks better without the face).

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

I don't understand how after absolutely NO ONE giving importance to the emblem in story and even Lobdell outright saying (through Kori) that Jason isn't defined by what he wears or who he knows. People STILL gets hung on it.