Jason Todd: Robin, Arkham Knight, Red Hood Appreciation 2018

[RedBird]

I'll take worthy if only he had a chance rather than unworthy.

Well countdown JayBat was solid proof of that, in the most perfect rendition of the DC universe he would be the perfect Batman, bless that comic for that piece of canon.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Jason is not a a survivalist, he's someone who doesn't give up...these two are opposites how?

Not giving up doesn't necessarily means being a survivalist, Lobdell understood that when he wrote the Future's End issue, Jason is someone whose determined to follow his code, his ideals until the bitter end, he would rather die than giving them up. Tynion wrote the exact opposite of what Jason's character is. He did the same on RHATO when he wrote Jason crying like a child after following blindly the League's orders.

He was messed up and then got back up. Maybe it would be nicer if he arranged cyber limbs right away and fought with the others over the Mantle but keep in mind this is a Tim story where he ends being the Batman. Jason getting back up regardless matters more than doning the mantle in a story that is ultimely how none of them end up being worthy.

You're missing the point. any writer that writes Jason as a failure from the get go, that it would be unable to do something more due any perceived flaws on his character is a writer that is bad at writing Jason.

[Rise]

Jason is not a survivalist nor a mess up and isn't destined to be the Red Hood either. Jason is simply anyone who refuses to give up no matter the cost.

Uh what? Jason has always been a survivalist since his days in the streets.

And anyway, it's a messed up future. You are interested in it? Try it or simply leave it because it's not going to affect Jason in his book.

[G-Potion]

Not giving up doesn't necessarily means being a survivalist, Lobdell understood that when he wrote the Future's End issue, Jason is someone whose determined to follow his code, his ideals until the bitter end, he would rather die than giving them up. Tynion wrote the exact opposite of what Jason's character is. He did the same on RHATO when he wrote Jason crying like a child after following blindly the League's orders.



You're missing the point. any writer that writes Jason as a failure from the get go, that it would be unable to do something more due any perceived flaws on his character is a writer that is bad at writing Jason.

Uh... what does he fail at?

[Aioros22]

He's talking abour Jason's feelings after losing his limbs. How he momentarily according to futureTim "gave up on life".

If this was it I'd fully agree but we know it isn't. Now sure; Loedbell and Winnick would have written him replacing limbs and kick ass but the whole Tim affair to facist madness escalated in due time it wasn't the issue then.

[G-Potion]

He's talking abour Jason's feelings after losing his limbs. How he momentarily according to futureTim "gave up on life".

If this was it I'd fully agree with him but se know it isn't.

Even if it is the case, the keyword for me here is momentarily. In one stroke he lost both eye and leg, if he shrugs it off like nothing that would be amazing, but also amazingly unrealistic. I don't think it's a failure to only get up after spending some time in personal limbo. Also as we saw in Batwoman, he didn't have access to the prosthetic that allowed him to walk without a cane. So in this setting it was out of the question maybe?

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Even if it is the case, the keyword for me here is momentarily. In one stroke he lost both eye and leg, if he shrugs it off like nothing that would be amazing, but also amazingly unrealistic. I don't think it's a failure to only get up after spending sometime in personal limbo.

We're talking of a story where aliens exist and a fifty something woman is in better physical shape than most young people, realism has long throw up its hands in exasperation and has gone home. Logic simply doesn't work here.

Tynion has a superficial knowledge of Jason's character. For him, Jason is nothing more than a screw up, someone who has no real heroism in him and just reckless, that will retire with the tail between his legs at the first sign of trouble and who needs someone to tell him what to do.

[G-Potion]

We're talking of a story where aliens exist and a fifty something woman is in better physical shape than most young people, realism has long throw up its hands in exasperation and has gone home. Logic simply doesn't work here.

Tynion has a superficial knowledge of Jason's character. For him, Jason is nothing more than a screw up, someone who has no real heroism in him and just reckless, that will retire with the tail between his legs at the first sign of trouble and who needs someone to tell him what to do.

Yes logic doesn't work here. Whether anything is available or not is up to the writer intent. As we see in Batwoman, Jason helps in anyway he can. If there's a solution for artificial leg that works just like normal leg, why didn't he take it? If the reason is 'he gives up on life', then that doesn't quite fit his voice in there, where he still retains some sassiness and his mind is still as sharp. Then one easy reason would just be, somehow that technology is available here, as dumb as it sounds.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Yes logic doesn't work here. Whether anything is available or not is up to the writer intent. As we see in Batwoman, Jason helps in anyway he can. If there's a solution for artificial leg that works just like normal leg, why didn't he take it? If the reason is 'he gives up on life', then that doesn't quite fit his voice in there, where he still retains some sassiness and his mind is still as sharp. Then one easy reason would just be, somehow that technology is available here, as dumb as it sounds.

And that is precisely the problem.

Jason needs for Batwoman to come and get him on standing on his own feet rather than doing by himself. Tynion still sees Jason as a sidekick, following the lead of other characters instead of making his own path. Whether he's aware or not, he's mirroring Jason's time with Bruce by putting him as Kate's helper.

[RedBird]

And that is precisely the problem.

Jason needs for Batwoman to come and get him on standing on his own feet rather than doing by himself.

Foot


I'm sorry I'll see myself out.

[G-Potion]

And that is precisely the problem.

Jason needs for Batwoman to come and get him on standing on his own feet rather than doing by himself. Tynion still sees Jason as a sidekick, following the lead of other characters instead of making his own path. Whether he's aware or not, he's mirroring Jason's time with Bruce by putting him as Kate's helper.

We don't know about this yet, do we? Playing Alfred to Batwoman is one thing, but getting himself up and start living again is a different matter, which he could have done it before teaming up with Batwoman.

[G-Potion]

Foot


I'm sorry I'll see myself out.

How could you!!!! Trampling on a man's pain.

[RedBird]

So sorry G :P

Also nevermind I'm back in.

Whilst I'm not Tynions biggest fan, I find his characterization of Jason to be usually be slightly off and much less complex than he actually is. (Actually you could say this for every character he writes, they are all pretty shallow and tropey.)

Regardless considering Jason is still fighting the good fight and trying to defend Gotham, and not abandoning it (Dick) and not trying to destroy it (Damian) and not changing his moral code and himself in the process (Tim), I say he fairs pretty well in this horrible future. This whole thing feels like a worst case scenario, and if the worst case scenario for Jason is that he remains one of the few that gives a damn about Gotham and still wants to save it even after being crippled for life, I can dig that.

[Alycat]

Good for Jason. When there's crime afoot then he truly should be the one to stay. It's his home more than Dick's which has always been the case. It's why I'm glad he stays grounded there in his own book. That said Dick truly had the right mindset. Gotham sucks. Let it burn.

[G-Potion]

Good for Jason. When there's crime afoot then he truly should be the one to stay. It's his home more than Dick's which has always been the case. It's why I'm glad he stays grounded there in his own book. That said Dick truly had the right mindset. Gotham sucks. Let it burn.

Not you too Alycat.