Jason Todd: Robin, Arkham Knight, Red Hood Appreciation 2018

[G-Potion]

Not every exposure is a good one.

Dick has been treated as a punching bag for the batfamily and Damian's appearances only end up making people hates him more since the writers tend to make him more of a jerk or have himvact like 8 years old kid who suddnly needs his "daddy" (or how he is "doomed" to be a bad guy in the future). The DCAU isn't doing them any favours either.

Also, Dick has been there for so long that he literally got a lot of butchering and inconsistenty through his history that more than once DC was close to get rid of him.

I agree that some exposure turn fans against Dick and Damian. But that's talking about writing quality. It doesn't change the fact that the intention has always been to have the spotlight on these two, be it from the writers or DC.

[Rise]

Damian got more spotlight because he is the current Robin and Batman's "son". Dick got more spotlight because he has major fanboys in the industry.

Jason has been dead for almost 20 years and has only been written consistently in the recent years. Not many grow up with him or has attachment to him, but he still managed to do far much better than many of DC characters who existed far longer than him and now are either just supporting characters or simply not around. He only appeared as DLC for a game and end up being the most trending Robin this year in Google, he is doing pretty fine.

I don't mind or hate his appearances because I care more for how he has been written in his book. When people get interested in him, they are going to search for his book and not his two pages appearances which why I think it's absolutely ridiculous how his appearances bother some of you so much when some characters aren't even lucky enough to be written well in their own book.

[G-Potion]

Damian got more spotlight because he is the current Robin and Batman's "son". Dick got more spotlight because he has major fanboys in the industry.

And that's what I've been saying. Sometimes, some writers take it to mean the others are not his sons. And no one at DC is correcting it either.

Jason has been dead for almost 20 years and has only been written consistently in the recent years. Not many grow up with him or has attachment to him, but he still managed to do far much better than many of DC characters who existed far longer than him and now are either just supporting characters or simply not around. He only appeared as DLC for a game and end up being the most trending Robin this year in Google, he is doing pretty fine.

True. And that's without even a nudge from DC so the complaints are still valid.

I don't mind or hate his appearances because I cares more for how he has been written in his book. When people get interested in him, they are going to search for his book and not his two pages appearances which I think it's absolutely ridiculous how his appearances so much when some characters aren't even lucky enough to be written in their own book.

You don't have to be emotionally invested to point out whether portrayal sucks or not though. I'm fine with Tynion's Jason recently, except for the bone spur which is just beyond dumb. I think King's Jason is crap which is why I'd prefer he doesn't write the character.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

They have zero idea on how to handle the robins in general and they didn't cause Jason any harm to worth being this bothered by them.

And Superman editors cared in what way exactly? Even when Jason appeared along Dick and Barbara in Batman/Superman, he got defined by one trait like Dick got.

Also, what some of you even want? You complain when Jason get included and you complain when he isn't, you complain when his book got dragged into crossover and you complain when it's not. You want a deep take on Jason? This rarely ever happen with any guest star appearing in any book.

It does cause harm because that are the appearances that are more present on the public's eye and have little to do with how his character it actually is. And yes, that does include his appearance in Injustice. For most people not really familiar with the comics Jason is still the edgy Robin that is only present to make "scalding" quips, act like though guy and with a chip on his shoulder. When Jason is so much more.

The appearance you mention it did have Jason being present with emphasis on a single aspect of his character yes, but it was consistent with the way he was written on RH/A at the time and the little chat he had with Superbro at the end showed a greater comprehension of his character that any other Batman writer has shown.

He was fleshed out in those guest appearances but you also atribute that as not having the room filled with other bats. He got to be played more and showcase more stuff whereas in Tec he cracks jokes and little else. Mind you I don`t see that as a sign of, for instance, Tynion lacking respect towards the character but more like his secondary characters having extremely limited roles. His Nigthwing and Damian aren`t anything to write home about either but I can`t say I don`t enjoy the quips, as little as it is.

King`s scene with the dog is the only actual sequence where I can tell a writer is going out of his way to poke at a fanbase, whereas in the previous diner scene, Jason was treated the same as the other boys.

Equally dispensable.

Thing is, at this point Tynion has been writing comics professionally for years, has gone on record to say that "Jason is one of his favorite characters ever" and every time he tries writing him it shows his understanding of his character is shallow. To not mention that he actually wrote Jason exclusively for more than a year and not only tanked his book, it didn't improved his understanding at all.

[Rise]

@G: True that DC isn't doing much and nothing wrong with asking for more. I do think the fact he still managed to get popular without DC doing much him say a lot about the appeal of his character and sometimes DC focusing on a character isn't necessary a good thing.

Why the writers have only been pushing Damian as the "son"? That's because of Jon and the writers trying to put Batman and Superman in equal ground by having only one son.

It's ok to not like certain take from a writer (I don't actually like King's take either. It just doesn't bother me since I find his run unintentionally hilarious), but I just wish that you guys spend more time discussing his book instead of wasted too many pages on some Jason's guest appearance that lasted for three pages top. It's ridiculous and one of the reasons why I left this forum.

@Dark: think whatever you want. I'm not discussing this further.

[G-Potion]

It's ok to not like certain take from a writer (I don't actually like King's take either. It just doesn't bother me since I find his run unintentionally hilarious), but I just wish that you guys spend more time discussing his book instead of wasted too many pages on some Jason's guest appearance that lasted for three pages top. It's ridiculous and one of the reasons why I left this forum.

I think we discuss the book plenty? They are just usually in the RHATO threads and those can go five to ten pages easily.

Yeah... this thread would be much more positive if RHATO is discussed here....

[Rise]

We do? Because I don't see any discussion in the current RHATO thread. It's just "good issue" and "looking forward to the next!!" Or the complaining about Batwoman. It's nothing compared to how much you discusse his appearances.

Five to ten pages easily? Come on now, I have been in this forum for over a year and this rarely happen.

[G-Potion]

We do? Because I don't see any discussion in the current RHATO thread. It's just "good issue" and "looking forward to the next!!" Or the complaining about Batwoman. It's nothing compared to how much you discusse his appearances.

Five to ten pages easily? Come on now, I have been in this forum for over a year and this rarely happen.

Thats how many pages the usual RHATO threads have yeah? And its natural that you have more responses when there are opposing opinions around.

[Rise]

I was talking about this thread, but I decided to check RHATO threads and most of them are just 4 or 5 pages and the rare occasions when we have more.

There's a lot of topics about RHATO that hardly been discussed. Like who is the mysterious guy? What's Bizarro up to? Are we going to see Willis? Is creeper going to join the team for real and does this mean the outlaws is going to be expanded? (That's actually pretty major news since it will be the first time ever Jason get to be a part of a big team) What's your favourite arc so far? Which character you like to guest appearance in this book? What plot you like to see be explored in the future? And so many other things that we can talk about in this thread.

[Aioros22]

Thing is, at this point Tynion has been writing comics professionally for years, has gone on record to say that "Jason is one of his favorite characters ever" and every time he tries writing him it shows his understanding of his character is shallow. To not mention that he actually wrote Jason exclusively for more than a year and not only tanked his book, it didn't improved his understanding at all.

That`s a writting flaw no doubt, I don`t think he`s insincere one bit about the love he shouts out for his favorites, I just think he`s a limited writer whose best work so far is a crossover with another property.

Like you say, he tends to be sort of surfasce level in characterization (example aka: battle feats) but that`s the common complain across the board in his title. Ask how many Tim fans in this Forum at least consider that Future Tim a deep character. I wouldn`t hold my breath. But hey, Jason fought 100 mystical assassins, what a badass.

In Tynion`s case, I at least do, separate the fan from the writer. He`s honest about the medeum na characters he loves but needs to continually grow as a writer.

King is the opposite. He`s genuially a good writer with a good understanding of narrative and panel layout but spends time poking expendable visual jokes because. I`m all for someone who defies fanbase expectations and entitlement but do it with flair, with panace, with subtitely with actual fun. King heavy hands it.

Do it like Morrison. Diss it with style.

[Aioros22]

I was talking about this thread, but I decided to check RHATO threads and most of them are just 4 or 5 pages and the rare occasions when we have more.

There's a lot of topics about RHATO that hardly been discussed. Like who is the mysterious guy? What's Bizarro up to? Are we going to see Willis? Is creeper going to join the team for real and does this mean the outlaws is going to be expanded? (That's actually pretty major news since it will be the first time ever Jason get to be a part of a big team) What's your favourite arc so far? Which character you like to guest appearance in this book? What plot you like to see be explored in the future? And so many other things that we can talk about in this thread.

Those have been discussed and continue to to. The last RATHO Thread is a good deal about how Bizarro is tingling Jason`s alert signal for the first time. I mean, look, we should discuss everything that pertains the character. The good, the bad and what would be better.

Like, you can`t discuss more about Wills than you have when you haven`t have a single new clue being dropped since the new arc started.

[Aioros22]

And unless Loedbell works wonders with Creeper and in a new light, I`m not sold on any prospect of him joining the team, much rather Crux made a comeback. Creeper being a tryout seems to follow the whole Joker Daugther`s asthetic tho.

[Rise]

Those have been discussed and continue to to

Sure whatever you say because the last ten pages of this thread are so going to prove your point, but continue having a long and repeated discussion about King and Tynion.

And who said that's RHATO only has "good"? It has good, bad and what would be better. There's some areas that I would actually like Lobdell to improve on.

The last RATHO Thread is a good deal about how Bizarro is tingling Jason`s alert signal for the first time

This thread is still in the first page and anyone can easily tell how this isn't true.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Sure whatever you say because the last ten pages of this thread are so going to prove your point, but continue having a long and repeated discussion about King and Tynion.

And who said that's RHATO only has "good"? It has good, bad and what would be better. There's some areas that I would actually like Lobdell to improve on.



This thread is still in the first page and anyone can easily tell how this isn't true.

The key to have long and productive discussions is to engage on other's opinions but when few do or people outright states they won't engage with other's opinions, it becomes an exercise in futility. That said, if the discussion skews towards the merits of other writers that is simply because is the only topic people are willing to engage.

[kiwiliko]

I was talking about this thread, but I decided to check RHATO threads and most of them are just 4 or 5 pages and the rare occasions when we have more.

There's a lot of topics about RHATO that hardly been discussed. Like who is the mysterious guy? What's Bizarro up to? Are we going to see Willis? Is creeper going to join the team for real and does this mean the outlaws is going to be expanded? (That's actually pretty major news since it will be the first time ever Jason get to be a part of a big team) What's your favourite arc so far? Which character you like to guest appearance in this book? What plot you like to see be explored in the future? And so many other things that we can talk about in this thread.

I always thought it was some kind of forum etiquette not split a topic into two places but yeah, more Rhato discussion here would be appreciated.
I am curious to some of your opinions on Artemis and Bizarro as well. We're covering a lot of ground with Bizarro and Jason this arc but I realize the original intention for this group to be made of misfits might be more accurate than Lobdell expected. Artemis has clearly went against Wonder woman in the past and has quite a history with Bana Mighdall. Have we considered how long she's probably lived up to this point when she could easily have decades or centuries on her two teammates. It's three people all with huge gaping differences between their life experiences, it's interesting to see them get along as a team.