I disagree completely to those who don't think a good villain/anti-hero arc for Jason could work. He obviously isn't going to off the Joker but who is to say he doesn't try? The Joker tries to kill Batman all the time. Obviously we know it isn't going to happen but we are still entertained. The same thing could apply here. The only problem is you have to write well to pull it off.
Sure you could that but then you will: Retreading AGAIN what Winnick did on Under the Red Hood, rendering Jason's argument meanigless (and keep in mind than when Jason was allowed to off a Joker version it was really lame and unsatisfactory). Giving Jason no names criminals to kill is also a retread of UtRH, realystically speaking that direction for Jason would only end on he becoming a crime lord for the batfamily to defeat (AGAIN a retread of UtRH) See a pattern here?
And I can't understand all of you people claiming how watered down Jason is now when DC's getting a TON of flak for being too edgy and violent.
There is a lot more than they could have done with the UtRH Jason that wouldn't be retreading what Winick did. Like for instance take him out of Gotham, have him take his competing brand of justice on the road. Hitting other cities like Metropolis and seeing how those cities hero's react to him. Another thing they could have tried which i think could have been interesting is have him join the Suicide Squad.
N52 Jason isn't the same as UtRH Jason for once, Dick was aware about who was Red Hood (and he even fought him) on the N52. Until more is revelade we can't really say if is hypocrital for him to work with the family.
The problem with that is the Batman connection, Bruce would end looking incompetent for allowing a problem of his to bother other cities. And Winnick did try that approach with the GA story and wasn't that well received.
Even if UtRH is canon in the New 52, Jason would have still changed as a person from that story, so I don't really see how hypocrisy is really relevant. I mean people change their attitudes, it happens.
I agree, but to be fair, those issues were pretty bad. Winnick struck gold on UtRH, but he's horribly inconsistent, and I remember Jason being really soapbox-y and obnoxious in those issues.The problem with that is the Batman connection, Bruce would end looking incompetent for allowing a problem of his to bother other cities. And Winnick did try that approach with the GA story and wasn't that well received.
While it's certainly true that they could have done a lot of things with the character after the end of UtRH and while I would have been just as happy to see what a fully developed villain version of Jason Todd would have been like the simple fact is DC dropped the ball after UtRH was over. They had no real plans for the character beyond that one story and no writer willing enough to pick up where Winick left off. If they had then Jason would not have spent all that time stagnating, spending time connected at the hip to Batman while being involved in a seemingly never ending cycle of similar stories that were merely rehashing of the same tired plotline with only the characters involved being different each time.
Personally, for me it was time that Jason underwent some kind of shakeup. Could that have happened without a reboot? sure and I think it was trending that way before the reboot with the introduction of Scarlet and their decision to leave Gotham. The reboot merely gave them an excuse to take it a bit further more quickly is all.
Last edited by JasonTodd428; 05-09-2014 at 08:10 PM.
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Oh my goodness gracious! I've been bamboozled!
When we hit our lowest point, we are open to the greatest change. AVATAR AANG
Last edited by JasonTodd428; 05-09-2014 at 08:13 PM.
Supporting LION FORGE COMICS and other independent publishers.
Check out Lion Forge's Catalyst Prime Universe. Its the best damned superhero verse in comics. Diverse characters and interesting stories set in a universe where anyone can be a hero. And company that prides itself on representation both in the comics themselves and in the people behind them.
Oh my goodness gracious! I've been bamboozled!
When we hit our lowest point, we are open to the greatest change. AVATAR AANG
I'll tell you exactly how it'll end--Jason will do his thing in Metropolis and then Superman will catch him in a matter of days and throw his happy little ass into jail.
Now, the Suicide Squad has some potential--it would certainly make his current title "& The Outlaws" make a lot more sense...
Under The Red Hood happened at large, but this isn`t the same Jason. It isn`t the same family either. The reason he`s well handled now is because there`s more than one venue for him to go that won`t feel forced. If you actually read the crossovers he`s had with them, Jason is never the entusiastic guy when he needs to return to Gotham, but he does, because that`s what family is about. The only watered down aspect they made was to not have Jason going rogue on every character around.
If you think of it this way, it`s really the one marketing idea that will work in the long run for the character in the mythos. Why? Because in the end, most of the fanbase wants to see him interact with the family. Same with any other ex Robin or ex partner. They need to be theyr own man, but the interaction is essencial, time to time, to remind us who they used to be and what they are at the core.
You could in a way, have Jason make his goal trying to off the Joker, true, but that leads to a one note song that will end up always getting stale. If you write him that way, he will only come across as weak, overly obsessive and without much else to add: i.e boring to read. A character to suceed needs diferent goals, an agenda outside the nest and secondary characters around to interact with. This Jason got it, finally.
Last edited by Aioros22; 05-10-2014 at 03:39 AM.
Jason has a goal and an agenda outside the nest?
I'm sorry, what do you mean that UTRH happened "at large?" Do you mean that something along those lines happened but the details played out differently because we are dealing with different characters? If so, I think we are in agreement. This is largely my understanding of DITF in the New 52 as well. Something like that happened, but there might be quite a bit of difference in the specifics (I seriously doubt the Joker was ever a UN ambassador, for one thing, and I'm sure DC was very glad to jettison that wretch-inducing twist).
Last edited by Aioros22; 05-10-2014 at 11:04 AM.
Pretty much. UDRH is basically the same storyline without the Prime part playing in, for one. In the first issue of RATHO there was this flashback of Bruce on the ground with Jason pointing the gun at him when Dick kicks Jason from behind to save him, something that we didn`t saw happening exactly the same way in the mentioned arc. So I`m thinking editorial is keeping most things but will change an especific here and there to better suit the new takes.