Jason Todd: Robin, Arkham Knight, Red Hood Appreciation 2018

[Zainu]

And I can't understand all of you people claiming how watered down Jason is now when DC's getting a TON of flak for being too edgy and violent.

But DC isn't edgy or violent at all. They just pull silly stunts for the sake of sensationalism.

[Godlike13]

Global trotting, targetting the Untitled, dealing with the league of Assasins, etc. He`s been out of Gotham and out of obsessing over Bruce and the Joker, that`s what I mean with being "out of the nest". Of all the former Robins, Jason spends the least time around.

Well ya he's not based in Gotham, but aimlessly globe trotting and randomly fighting different groups doesn't really indicate much of a goal or an agenda with him though. And while as u say, out all the former Robins Jason might spend the least time around. He's also the only one that runs around with a Bat symbol on his chest.
And quite frankly he's not the former Robin who spends the least time around. Not lately. Of late he's arguably been the former Robin who's most been around. He taken part in all of the Bat events, he's was in the Batman/Supeman Annual, he's in Eternal. He's around quite a bit actually.

[Tony Stark]

Ya he's not based in Gotham, but aimlessly globe trotting and randomly fighting different groups doesn't really indicate much of a goal or an agenda with him though. And while as u say, out all the former Robins Jason might spend the least time around. He's also the only one that runs around with a Bat symbol on his chest.
Though quite frankly he's not the former Robin who spends the least time around. Not lately. Of late he's arguably been the former Robin who's most been around. He taken part in all of the Bat events, he's was in the Batman/Supeman Annual, he's in Eternal. He's around quite a bit actually.

He was in the Batman/Superman Annual, but that was because Batman chose to go to him since he didn't think Dick or Tim was able to handle this job. So Batman went to him. Jason's Agenda is to stop evil were ever he finds in. Be ii in space or anywhere else.

[Aioros22]

Well ya he's not based in Gotham, but aimlessly globe trotting and randomly fighting different groups doesn't really indicate much of a goal or an agenda with him though.

It did when said arcs about the groups where introduced. The basic of Jason is to take down crime/evil with fire while moving on from his damaged past.

And while as u say, out all the former Robins Jason might spend the least time around. He's also the only one that runs around with a Bat symbol on his chest. And quite frankly he's not the former Robin who spends the least time around. Not lately. Of late he's arguably been the former Robin who's most been around. He taken part in all of the Bat events, he's was in the Batman/Supeman Annual, he's in Eternal. He's around quite a bit actually.

Tim and Dick were also a part in the same Bat events. The main omission is Dick right now in Eternal. But what I mean here is that outside those events that make him interact with them, he doesn`t get by his day to day around Gotham as much as the others do. As in, his life doesn`t center there anymore. The Annual was an especific circumstance of being called in by Batman.

I think the main reason the reboot did wonders is actually that. His life is now centered outside.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Heck, Lobdell did stated that Batman, Gotham or Joker would only get some references here and there but the real focus of his were to give Jason a place to call his own. Jason agenda now is to live fully along Roy and Kory (despite all the snark he aim towards them) and let go anything Bat related. Yes, he wears the bat on his chest but is because it was a gift from Kory, there's nothing on his characterization that leads to believe he gives any importance to the emblem. Outside of the annual and the crossover issues, Jason's presence on major stories is tangential, he only showed up on a panel during NOTO and only had a few lines during DOTF.

[EdwardNigma]

I love the idea of a rogue Robin who hates Batman and will either make him see his viewpoint or force one of them to die. Another Batman supporting Robin is the last thing we need.

[Dzetoun]

Heck, Lobdell did stated that Batman, Gotham or Joker would only get some references here and there but the real focus of his were to give Jason a place to call his own. Jason agenda now is to live fully along Roy and Kory (despite all the snark he aim towards them) and let go anything Bat related. Yes, he wears the bat on his chest but is because it was a gift from Kory, there's nothing on his characterization that leads to believe he gives any importance to the emblem. Outside of the annual and the crossover issues, Jason's presence on major stories is tangential, he only showed up on a panel during NOTO and only had a few lines during DOTF.

I don't know that I would go that far. Of course, we don't have a completely consistent presentation of Jason's relationship with the Bat Family, as Lobdell, Tynion, Pak, Johns, and Tomasi have all given somewhat different views, and they are not always totally consistent in their own work, much less with each other. Seeley will probably put his own spin on things when he writes Jason in Eternal. Still, putting it all together and smoothing out things as best we can, it seems that Jason is and always has been on good terms with Tim, whom he seems to regard with some bemusement as a kind of younger brother whose eccentricities approach pathology. He also seems to regard Bruce as a brother, albeit one with whom he fights constantly and whom he sometimes needles with out-and-out cruelty. Still, he rallies to Bruce in crises, and refers to Bruce's sidekicks as "us." Bruce regards him with guilt and regret rather than anger or intolerance. In fact, disapproving as Bruce is of Jason's methods, it seems that he does not want to see his black sheep harmed or confined or punished, and actively seeks to prevent such outcomes.

As far as the rest of the family goes, Jason seems, like the other Robins, to regard Alfred with affection. We don't really know how he felt about Damian, although he seems to accept that as Bruce's biological son Damian had special status. He dislikes Dick rather intensely, liking to make double-entendres out his name, and we will see about Barbara and Kate Kane in Eternal. So, tension certainly is present, and even animosity, but it all seems to be within the bounds of a family quarrel.

[Dzetoun]

I love the idea of a rogue Robin who hates Batman and will either make him see his viewpoint or force one of them to die. Another Batman supporting Robin is the last thing we need.

That is tantamount to saying you want Jason killed off. That is a perfectly legitimate position, but let's be honest about it. If you really want to see a Jason who cannot abide Bruce to the point of forcing a lethal confrontation, then after a few repeats of the cycle Jason will die. There is simply no other way for that story to end.

[Dzetoun]

Pretty much. UDRH is basically the same storyline without the Prime part playing in, for one. In the first issue of RATHO there was this flashback of Bruce on the ground with Jason pointing the gun at him when Dick kicks Jason from behind to save him, something that we didn`t saw happening exactly the same way in the mentioned arc. So I`m thinking editorial is keeping most things but will change an especific here and there to better suit the new takes.

Well, I kind of agree. I think we ought to be very careful of assuming that anything from the old continuity happened until it is confirmed and given specifics. Even then, there is more than a little chance that it will be retconned away. At this point we know Jason was resurrected in the Lazarus Pit, returned to Gotham, and engaged in activities that led to eighty-something deaths and confrontation with Bruce and Dick. I'm not sure we can say much else. Similarly we know that, earlier, the Joker trapped and killed Jason in Ethiopia. Once again, outside that I don't know that we should assume anything about details or specifics.

[Godlike13]

It did when said arcs about the groups where introduced. The basic of Jason is to take down crime/evil with fire while moving on from his damaged past.

Thats is way too general. Thats pretty much the basic of a super hero. Come on now. Having to go that general kind of proves my point.

Tim and Dick were also a part in the same Bat events. The main omission is Dick right now in Eternal. But what I mean here is that outside those events that make him interact with them, he doesn`t get by his day to day around Gotham as much as the others do. As in, his life doesn`t center there anymore. The Annual was an especific circumstance of being called in by Batman.

I think the main reason the reboot did wonders is actually that. His life is now centered outside.

Tim has been centered around Teen Titans and Dick only tried hanging in Gotham briefly before moving to Chicago. Their day to day wasn't in Gotham either. And ya, they were also a part in the same Bat events same as Jason. So he wasn't any less around then them, but they weren't in the Batman/Superman Annual, and Dicks has been MIA since FE started. So to say that Jason spends the least time around is just currently not true. And while RHatO isn't based in Gotham, Jason still consistently finds himself in Gotham and around Batman.

[Godlike13]

Heck, Lobdell did stated that Batman, Gotham or Joker would only get some references here and there but the real focus of his were to give Jason a place to call his own. Jason agenda now is to live fully along Roy and Kory (despite all the snark he aim towards them) and let go anything Bat related. Yes, he wears the bat on his chest but is because it was a gift from Kory, there's nothing on his characterization that leads to believe he gives any importance to the emblem. Outside of the annual and the crossover issues, Jason's presence on major stories is tangential, he only showed up on a panel during NOTO and only had a few lines during DOTF.

Again, to live along Roy and Kory is another rather general agenda, and he's still very Bat related. Even if it was a gift from Kory he is still running around with a Bat brand on his chest, DC put it there for a reason, and he still takes part in all the Bat events and then some. Hell even, Batman has appeared more in RHatO then he has in Nightwing, Teen titans, or Batgirl even.

[oasis1313]

I like Jason with a chip on his shoulder. Dick and Tim can be the "good boys''--what makes Jason different and interesting is that he's got a mean streak.

[EdwardNigma]

"That is tantamount to saying you want Jason killed off. That is a perfectly legitimate position, but let's be honest about it. If you really want to see a Jason who cannot abide Bruce to the point of forcing a lethal confrontation, then after a few repeats of the cycle Jason will die. There is simply no other way for that story to end."


I get what you are saying but almost every other Batman villain tries to kill him right? They are still around. This isn't really that different though it does take a little more creativity with the writers which is a good thing.

[Aioros22]

Thats is way too general. Thats pretty much the basic of a super hero. Come on now. Having to go that general kind of proves my point.

If you regard how Batman and Superman fight crime as anthesis to how Todd fights (and they are written as such, ergo the arguments we have seen with the two of them and Hood in RATHO) then at least it`s not supposed to be how generally the super hero is regarded to openly operate at DC. You have guys like Aquaman and Wonder Woman killing when need be, but they are a fantasy/myth drawing type of character who mostly target virtually monsters. Todd falls in the vigilante category who deals up and close with humanity and its flaws and among the ones who walk around DC on the side of the angels, he`s among the grey when it comes to how he does it. And they aren`t supposed to be that many.

While damaged past is part of the general concept of the super hero, among the family, he`s by far the most damaged of them all. What Loebdell started with, the hook of the book regarding Jason, was to especifically grow and move past the hatred and past motivations he had regarding Gotham.

Tim has been centered around Teen Titans and Dick only tried hanging in Gotham briefly before moving to Chicago. Their day to day wasn't in Gotham either.

They hang around more by simple virtue of interaction with the supporting charaters that are part of the city. Who was the one that stayed out of the family portrait, for exemple? Who is Dick constantly flirting with, in and out, for another exemple?

It`s not that Jason doesn`t know people from Gotham, is that pretty much everyone he knows reminds him of a past he wants to move away from.

[Dzetoun]

"That is tantamount to saying you want Jason killed off. That is a perfectly legitimate position, but let's be honest about it. If you really want to see a Jason who cannot abide Bruce to the point of forcing a lethal confrontation, then after a few repeats of the cycle Jason will die. There is simply no other way for that story to end."


I get what you are saying but almost every other Batman villain tries to kill him right? They are still around. This isn't really that different though it does take a little more creativity with the writers which is a good thing.

But the other villains aren't former Robins. They don't have the kind of intense personal background with Batman that a villainous Jason (or any Jason) would have, and therefore the constant struggle has a very different feel. If you will, for most of them, it's professional and not personal, which allows for different story arcs and different outcomes. The only exceptions to that, recently, are the Joker and Talia. Talia they killed off. As for Joker, whole reams have been written about the problems they have with that character and what a corner they have backed themselves into, in large part because of the very personal, and thus exceptionally vicious, nature of the confrontation. A large part of the dialogue in the climax of DotF consisted of Snyder trying to find ways out of the corner and not succeeding very well. The dynamic you are describing for Jason, to force Batman to concede or one of them has to die, is Joker's dynamic, isn't it? And we, and DC, definitely don't need another Joker and all the narrative problems that come with a character whose only logical end is a death that can never be reached.