I'm a bit curious about why Babs corrects what Jason says, because it sounds to me like they are saying the same thing? Just from different angle?
I'm a bit curious about why Babs corrects what Jason says, because it sounds to me like they are saying the same thing? Just from different angle?
True, its not the worst display of Jasons morality, like I said, I like it but still, Tynion tends to, exaggerate. I wasn't stating that Jason in Tynions writing is 'changed', of course he is holding back out of respect, however the idea that he is willing to completely give up his ideals and morality just to be 'part of the club' is what I can't agree to, that reasoning makes Jason sound like he is willing to give up something that has been an essential part of his character if it means he gets to sit at the 'big boys table'. Its an idea that I was against in the first place and was glad to hear that Lodbells approach was instead to compromise between Jason and Bruce. Again, its not the worst characterization by any means, of course Jason wants to be part of a family, but this approach is still an oversimplification.
I mean yeah, the whole thing was pretty meta,
Babs: 'This book is rubbish Bruce, wheres Cass's screen time? How come Steph has been driven off? Why is the book all about Kate leading and Tims ideas and inventions huh?' :P
Jokes aside, honestly those are great points, I hadn't even considered that point for Damian. My thoughts were that he was just verbally lashing out and feeling defensive, due to him feeling as though he has no place to judge (history and all that). But I think you hit the nail on the head. Okay one point for calling out goes to Damian as well, he can be on the scoreboard with Jason and Babs. :P
Right? I can't believe how much that one went over my head.
Thats an interesting point, perhaps Tynion was laying out some groundwork between this and rhato, if thats the case I'd be mighty impressed. But that would also mean that rhato should then have some kind of interaction between Bruce and Jason, so far, nothing has indicated that. Perhaps that diner scene Soy showed off?
Last edited by RedBird; 02-28-2018 at 10:23 AM.
Right. I always get impression that Tynion doesn't really get the depth of Jason or RHATO. Is Jason even really "part of the club"? This is the same character that couldn't admit to Dick he just wanted to bond with him in the Annual and struggled to communicate with him. That told Artemis that these Bat family weren't family in a way that mattered to him and he didn't know if they could be after everything. This sounds like Jason gave up on his beliefs on the chance he can be allowed to be part of the family again. I don't like that at all.
As for Babs maybe she was only half listening.
"Jasons right, although not as right as he thinks he is. This isn't about her. This is about about you."
Well in all honesty, I thought so too. Perhaps Tynion was referring to the fact that Jasons argument still rested upon the fact that Kate broke Batmans rules and that he was having a 'tantrum' over her not falling in line. When in reality its more about Bruces inner conflict with his perception of his mother and if she would have reacted the same way Kate did.
Its not really about Kate and what she did, its about what that means to Bruces own psyche.
Basically Bruce makes a batfam members actions about himself, more than ever. :P
Yeah, I mean, I think personally that deep deep down Jason DOES want a family, or at least does long to be at Bruces side once again in some ways. After all that was part of what he lost when he died, and his lamentations in rhato are proof enough of that. But as you said he doesn't believe thats a possibility anymore, thanks to all that has happened. Jason is very self aware as a character as well as insecure about himself and his place among everyone. He can barely admit these feelings of longing to himself, let alone monologue about it to his family.
Of course, but you know, I'm pretty sure this was Tynions 'big reveal' so reachy or not. I think it is meant to be the truth of the matter. Personally speaking, everything about Babs argument felt fine to me, till she somehow figured out that it all connected back to Martha, that's where the 'plot convenience exposition genius' stuff came into play once again, though with Babs at the wheel instead of Tim.
Last edited by RedBird; 02-28-2018 at 10:41 AM.
Yeah if anything, that part about being a part of the family was the biggest discrepancy between the two books for me, not so much on Jason's moral stance. Even then however, the root, that is Jason wanting it, it's still the same. Tynion's Jason has always been more open in sharing his feelings than Lobdell's.