Jason Todd: Robin, Arkham Knight, Red Hood Appreciation 2018

[Godlike13]

Don’t you think it’s a bit early to say its already lacking when it hasn’t even started yet?

Yes and no. What I meant by lacking is as a big direction change I feel it’s already lacking. They change the direction but leave the same guy at the helm every time. They can change the title and his clothes all they want, but I’m just not interested in Red Hood by Lobdell.

[Talon1load]

Morrison's take on Red Hood was painful to read. Winnick and Lobdell (with Rebirth) have done way better jobs of writing Jason.

[JasonTodd428]

Yes and no. What I meant by lacking is as a big direction change I feel it’s already lacking. They change the direction but leave the same guy at the helm every time. They can change the title and his clothes all they want, but I’m just not interested in Red Hood by Lobdell.

Perhaps he's the only writer how is both interested in writing the character and whose pitches keep being of interest to DC.

Personally I've felt Lobdell's been on fire since Rebirth started and that the current book is a million times better than the original insofar as quality is concerned. With the previous book Lobdell lacked a guiding editorial hand who was able to curb some of his tendencies but the Rebirth book has exactly that so it's been a stronger and more coherent run because of it. The current book has also has had consistent art as well as art that compliments the story being told. It also hasn't been plagued with crossovers like the original was. All in all its a better book and frankly I think it's the best Bat book by far no contest.

I think this new direction will be just a strong if not stronger than what proceeded it and you might miss out on something you might have enjoyed but that's your call to make. I have writers that I avoid as well so I understand the feeling.

[Aahz]

Morrison's Red Hood was a logical evolution of Winick's Red Hood.

Not really when Winick had him appear in Outsiders, he was completely willing to work with Dick because it was the right thing to do.

He seemed to be pretty much against a the idea of having kids as sidekick in general, so him taking one was also odd. An he never really cared about the public opinion.

[Zaresh]

Just want to mention a few things from a few pages back.

First, at this point, everyone and their mothers knows that Jason was killed by merely 72 votes against him, and that around 300 (out or 10,500) were from the same person who dialed the "dead" number on automatic for eight hours (talk about haters). It's even in Wikipedia with citation notes and all https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_..._the_Family%22 . So the truth is, he was meant to live afterwards, and even got a few letters of fans who were really sad for his death issues later, if I recall correctly this info. Having a Robin with Batman that wasn't Dick was quite polemical back in the day, I think. There were even haters of the idea of Robin, even; it wasn't personal on Jason, I would say (as I can tell from this distance in time).

Second, people like Rebirth RHATO. Just go suft the net, look for reviews and forum posts talking about the book. The people who did start reading it, who gave it the chance to be read I mean, are mostly liking it, with his highs and his lows. Saying that people dislike RHATO is wrong, in my opinion (which is an opinion, but I think it's a good one. he he).

Third, how pretty or ugly a character looks depends on the art, mostly. Mostly. And in the eyes who see said art. I cannot see how Morrison or Winnick are responsible of the good or bad looks of Jason in the Dickbats run. I saw it for Damian's weird shape head: that looks like an intended looks from the script. But every other character? I don't see it. It's not a plot point, it doesn't serve any purpose in the story, it's not meaningful in any way that concerns the writing. At most, it's a trick of the artist, who works with tropes, stereotypes and expectations. Usually, the villains are drawn ugly and mature (or extremely beautiful and young if they're not using brutal violence). Same as heroes tend to look pretty, handsome, cute in the case of kids, and rather young (reason why some heroes will never get pass their 40's, or their 30's if they're women). It sucks, and of course, there is exceptions; but usually it's how it is, as far as I've noticed.

Would I know this worm of cans would be open like that, I would have not discussed further in the hopes of keeping the thread chill. But, oh, well, nothing I can do now but posting these bits and hope discussion goes in a different direction. It's probably my last post until the air gets fresher.

[RedBird]

Oh God, not this argument for Morrisons psycho Jason again.

Funny how most people in 'favor' of this version never seem to be major fans of the character anyway.

(actually its almost weirdly always the hardcore Dick Grayson stans? Anyone else notice that? Not all obviously, if it was all, I'd have to count myself and many others in there otherwise, but a venn diagram could correlate this specific 'opinion' with the major 'DG but not so much RH' fans.)

[kaimaciel]

Whoa! I leave the thread for a day and we get 4 pages!

Throwing my two cents on Jason under Morrison... I hated it. He was psycho, unsympathetic, obsessed with Bruce and the other Bat Boys to the point of it becoming pathetic. He was a prop for Dick's new role as Batman and a cautionary tale for Tim and Damian. It was painful to read and I hope to never see it again.

And the costume was ugly.

[G-Potion]

It's not your fault @Zaresh. Some people just can't pass up any chance to come here and remind us why they dislike RH, or why RH only appeals to fans of the animated movie and isn't worth DC's further investment blah blah. Nevermind that this is an appreciation thread and they never bother to come here for that purpose.

[Zaresh]

It's not your fault @Zaresh. Some people just can't pass up any chance to come here and remind us why they dislike RH, or why RH only appeals to fans of the animated movie and isn't worth DC's further investment blah blah. Nevermind that this is an appreciation thread and they never bother to come here for that purpose.

I see. I don't see what they gain with such attitude, but whatever.

And hey, @kaimaciel, I liked that costume! I feel hurt!! Haha, kidding. It was cool in its own. Both versions of that costume, actually. Very fun and stylish. Problem wasn't the costume for me; it was what was wearing it.

[RedBird]

I hated it. He was psycho, unsympathetic, obsessed with Bruce and the other Bat Boys to the point of it becoming pathetic. He was a prop for Dick's new role as Batman and a cautionary tale for Tim and Damian. It was painful to read and I hope to never see it again.

Couldn't agree more. Nothing but prop. A personal 'Joker' for Dick, a cautionary tale for Tim, and a way to display Damian in a better light, since at the time he was a slowly developing but still divisive character portrayed in this instance as 'not so bad' by comparison to Jason who is the real 'bad robin' of the bunch. And yeah thats on top of the new pathetic obsession with the batboys, the ooc killing of innocent people, the ooc taking on a kid sidekick despite despising and criticizing such a notion previously, the ooc desire for public interest in his persona, boy does the ooc list go on.

[RedBird]

@MyFairYouth


I know its not important in the grand scheme of things but a small part of me wishes we could see a bit of Jason trying to go about his vigilante day whilst keeping his identity under wraps. XD

[Aioros22]

Morrison's Red Hood was a logical evolution of Winick's Red Hood. He wasn't fodder for Batman and Robin, he was competition. He objective wasn't a personal vendetta. He was trying to compete against the new Batman for Gotham. Trying to offer Gotham an alternative protector. Even the silly suit and sidekick was about branding. It was actually a rather clever take, that i think got lost under ugly art and red hair.

Personally i like that Jason is breaking bad again, but with out a true jumping on point for it and a new voice i feel its already lacking.

A logical evolution in terms of character theme, I`d say. The character work was merely meta commentary and anything but. Interesting in its own merits but not a fat chance it could work on the long haul as he set it.

I don`t see what a "true jumping point" - is it? merits a different writer by itself either but tastes are tastes.

[Aioros22]

Batman is a hypocrite when he accepts Jason back into the family after killing so many people and if he continues to kill while being a part of the family.

That only happens in three timetables: Convergence, New52 and Rebirth. The common thread in all these three is Jason compromising his actions on harsh justice with Bruce without disregarding that some stories during his psycho phase haven`t been touched or brought back to at all as a whole.

In the case where it did, in Convergence for instance, it is his partnership with Scarlett that seems to make him more into a hero a priority over vengeance, as it once were.

In short, there`s Under the Red Hood where Jason had his emotional breakdown after returning and not much else until New52 kicks in. In the same line of thought, the two times he resorted to kill (not touching upon this detail regarding Penguin`s status) he ends up pushing his own exile. There isn`t much hipcocrasy left in the book: Bruce either gives him a second chance because he can and wants Jason back or Jason decides his own fate, unconsciously or not because he doesn`t see himself as one.

[kaimaciel]

And hey, @kaimaciel, I liked that costume! I feel hurt!! Haha, kidding. It was cool in its own. Both versions of that costume, actually. Very fun and stylish. Problem wasn't the costume for me; it was what was wearing it.

Totally

I'm really picky when it comes to costumes, but I respect your opinion

[byrd156]

It's not your fault @Zaresh. Some people just can't pass up any chance to come here and remind us why they dislike RH, or why RH only appeals to fans of the animated movie and isn't worth DC's further investment blah blah. Nevermind that this is an appreciation thread and they never bother to come here for that purpose.

I enjoy Morrison's version of Jason so I was appreciating him. I only decided to post in here because it seems like DC is heading back into that sort of direction. Not to the same extremes of that version but still a vigilante that kills criminals while not being a part of the bat family doing his own mission. Jason being allowed in Gotham with his methods has never made sense to me and I'm glad DC is finally exploring this.