Jason Todd: Robin, Arkham Knight, Red Hood Appreciation 2018

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Adams did a small interview on the process it went on this month's variant

http://13thdimension.com/neal-adams-...reen-all-over/

Is a pretty entertaining read.

[Aioros22]

Adams did a small interview on the process it went on this month's variant

http://13thdimension.com/neal-adams-...reen-all-over/

Is a pretty entertaining read.

Awesome process intel. I like the way Adams draws the mask with the sidelines. The black background would be the easiest solution but would have sucked for the colorist. When it comes to artwork he`s a genious. When it comes to writing...humm. I wish there was a hardbound version of Odissey in pencil format, showing his original work because that`s definatly the highlight.

Any word on Jason under Romita and Miller for DK3?

[godisawesome]

Okay guys, here a query: if they do some kind of Jason Todd as Red Hood in the DCEU movies, how would you do his parting with Batman? Have him die? Get brainwashed? Get recruited? We've got the burned up Robin suit in the cave, but that doesn't neccesarily mean we have the whole story...

Me, I'd go with the idea that Ra's, or preferably Tali, had already made an offer to "complete" Jason's training, and he accepted it after Joker put Babs in a wheelchair and nearly killed/fatally wounded/was about to kill him. Then he got the Lazarus Pit dip, though he may not have actually been dead in this universe. I figure it gives him a better reason to have both a believable resurrection and turn on Batman.

What do you guys think?

[Aioros22]

Okay guys, here a query: if they do some kind of Jason Todd as Red Hood in the DCEU movies, how would you do his parting with Batman? Have him die? Get brainwashed? Get recruited? We've got the burned up Robin suit in the cave, but that doesn't neccesarily mean we have the whole story...

Me, I'd go with the idea that Ra's, or preferably Tali, had already made an offer to "complete" Jason's training, and he accepted it after Joker put Babs in a wheelchair and nearly killed/fatally wounded/was about to kill him. Then he got the Lazarus Pit dip, though he may not have actually been dead in this universe. I figure it gives him a better reason to have both a believable resurrection and turn on Batman.

What do you guys think?

Good one, the idea got potential, with showing up on the go how Jason`s stance in justice compares to Batman. You could still play the notion that Joker not being dead is the main point after what happened to barbara which brings Jason on a different path.

You mentioned brainwashing and I thought right away of the Arkham Knight setup, which I`m sure was your intention. Also nice, I think and it would work on the big screen. Joker leaves enough evidence to have Bruce and Alfred believe that he`s dead...but "Joke`s on you"...he`s not! That could setup nicely a sequel adapting most of UDRH storyline without major misteps and place Jason as Red Hood redemption style versus an older Batman ala DKR.

[Aioros22]

By the way, I just noticed that we`re up to almost the 100th page of the Appreciation Thread for Jason! Certainly something that could only have happened with the Creative changes that have come these years and the persistance of Hooders all over


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http://memecrunch.com/meme/1LKNX/jas....png?w=500&c=1

Here`s to another kicking 100!

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Okay guys, here a query: if they do some kind of Jason Todd as Red Hood in the DCEU movies, how would you do his parting with Batman? Have him die? Get brainwashed? Get recruited? We've got the burned up Robin suit in the cave, but that doesn't neccesarily mean we have the whole story...

Me, I'd go with the idea that Ra's, or preferably Tali, had already made an offer to "complete" Jason's training, and he accepted it after Joker put Babs in a wheelchair and nearly killed/fatally wounded/was about to kill him. Then he got the Lazarus Pit dip, though he may not have actually been dead in this universe. I figure it gives him a better reason to have both a believable resurrection and turn on Batman.

What do you guys think?

Why? Magic exists in the DECU

[Aahz]

I would prefer a solution where Jason doesn't die, and Bruce just thinks he is dead but if they do the resurrection thing than they should use the pit (or something else that is part of the Batman myth) and not something like the Superboy Prime reality punch.

[Aioros22]

Why? Magic exists in the DECU

True but I think with the Pit being used so much in the Arrow-verse as a plot point it wouldn`t happen. They`ve made it clear (so far at least) that they want the big screen to be different than the tv format. That probably includes plot points and so.

That being said it`s just my guess.

I would prefer a solution where Jason doesn't die, and Bruce just thinks he is dead but if they do the resurrection thing than they should use the pit (or something else that is part of the Batman myth) and not something like the Superboy Prime reality punch.

I think the Arkham Knight type of solution works well. It`s cinematic, it doesn`t need to adhere to whether it`s magic so people don`t go anal about it and it tears the right kind of emotional wreck on both Bruce and Alfred while bringing Joker to the front whether he`s dead in the current DCAU verse or not.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Not killing Jason takes a lot of the nuance of his Red Hood persona and honestly, the Arkham Knight plot was idiotic and didn't make a lick of sense. Plus, it took all kind of agency from Jason and turned him into Joker's puppet.

[Aioros22]

Not killing Jason takes a lot of the nuance of his Red Hood persona and honestly, the Arkham Knight plot was idiotic and didn't make a lick of sense. Plus, it took all kind of agency from Jason and turned him into Joker's puppet.

For all purposes the AK solution gives us a death, this time with a stronger reasoning for it and not just missing in action with the costume burnt out and Joker`s message on it. This kind of story mode turning him Joker`s puppet is a valid concern, no doubt, but the big screen adaptation won`t likely dwelve in the kind of background that Jason got with training solo around the world or the All-Caste in the meantime, if it gets there. It`s too much information to process while sharing screen time with Batman and co.

Despite being a valid concern since the point would still see him breaking whatever commands he fights against and still come up on his own, I think it would be satisfactory enough. And if the Joker isn`t dead in this movie timeline and Jason gets to be the one beating him down with a crowbar ala Winnick for poetic justice or as an easter egg, I`d be happy enough.

[Aahz]

Not killing Jason takes a lot of the nuance of his Red Hood persona and honestly, the Arkham Knight plot was idiotic and didn't make a lick of sense. Plus, it took all kind of agency from Jason and turned him into Joker's puppet.

It has to work somehow inside the movie and make sense for people who are not familiar with the comics. And this movie should still have the feeling of a Batman movie, so they shouldn't have to much magic in it (I would be OK with the Lazarus Pit but not with the Superboy Prime Punch). I like the picture of Jason digging himself out of his grave but the explanation is a little bit problematic (in the new 52 they didn't explained it at all).

For the plot of the movie Under the Red Hood is probaly a better inspiration than Arkham Knight.

What I like about the Arkhamverse on the other hand is that Jason can kill real Batman villains there, something he can never do in the main universe, thats something he could probably also do in the DECU.

Intersting would also be how they hande the story of his death. Death in the Family not a very good story (imo the weakest of Starlin's run), I would prefer if the Joker actually had a plan for catching Jason and didn't just run into him by coincidence.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Despite being a valid concern since the point would still see him breaking whatever commands he fights against and still come up on his own, I think it would be satisfactory enough. And if the Joker isn`t dead in this movie timeline and Jason gets to be the one beating him down with a crowbar ala Winnick for poetic justice or as an easter egg, I`d be happy enough.

Why you'd think Joker is dead? We know he's alive and well in the DCCU

What I like about the Arkhamverse on the other hand is that Jason can kill real Batman villains there, something he can never do in the main universe, thats something he could probably also do in the DECU.

Kind of a moot point when: Jason doesn't kills any villian of note, it happens off-screen (read as not during the game proper) and is in fact working in tandem with them.

[JasonTodd428]

It has to work somehow inside the movie and make sense for people who are not familiar with the comics. And this movie should still have the feeling of a Batman movie, so they shouldn't have to much magic in it (I would be OK with the Lazarus Pit but not with the Superboy Prime Punch). I like the picture of Jason digging himself out of his grave but the explanation is a little bit problematic (in the new 52 they didn't explained it at all).

For the plot of the movie Under the Red Hood is probaly a better inspiration than Arkham Knight.

What I like about the Arkhamverse on the other hand is that Jason can kill real Batman villains there, something he can never do in the main universe, thats something he could probably also do in the DECU.

Intersting would also be how they hande the story of his death. Death in the Family not a very good story (imo the weakest of Starlin's run), I would prefer if the Joker actually had a plan for catching Jason and didn't just run into him by coincidence.

I'd say no to the Superboy Prime punch as well. I thought it was a stupid explanation for Jay's resurrection anyway. I also don't think there really needs to be a definitive explanation for it either. I'd rather they do just as the reboot did and leave the exact mechanics of his resurrection a mystery while allowing the Pit to restore his mind.

[godisawesome]

And I'd rather they have some kind of explanation; leaving it so oblique honestly feels lazy and cheapens his death just as much as brainwashing and faking it would. I know that as comic fans, we're all numb to heroes retraining from the grave, but that's still a really big detail to just gloss over. Some of you guys probably know that I'm a Lobdell-hater; while I don't despise his skipping over Jason's means for resurrecting, I still see it as a missed opportunity that disappoints.

One of the reasons why UTRH works as a movie is because they gave Ra's a good reason to resurrect Jason, and embraced the ambiguity of whether or not Jason was already headed down a dark path or if the Pit did something to him. Personally, I like the idea of Talia, as a largely autonomous third party with amoral but not necessarily malevolent intentions, resurrecting Jason for some purpose. To me, the most immediately obvious reason you could apply in a movie would be to have a resurrected Jason help train Damian apart from Ra's's disciples; go ahead and show that Talia is starting to diverge from her father's goals a little bit and that she suspects that her father may try to control her son more than she'd like.

And that's part of the reason why I like the idea of Jason, as he lays dying, accepting an offer for resurrection and further training from Talia. Give him some level of action in his resurrection, maybe embrace some of the desperation such an event would entail, and strengthen his ties to Talia and draw a comparison between the he way both have a complicated bond with Bruce to make a formidable team.

Oh, and incidently, as someone who loves all the Robins, if I were in charge of a live-action Batman show, Jason would ultimately be the earliest lynch-pin between all four boys; he would be the only Robin who started training while Dick still used the identity, he would have Tim Drake as one of his online resources and possible beneficiary of a Jasona nod Bruce rescue missions (think a combination of the Obeah Man's attack on Tim's family with the Penguin's connection to Tim's New 52 origin) and Jason would be a direct inspiration to Tim to become a crime fighter, and then he would be the guy who tutored Damian in some of the more Gotham-vigilante type skills that the LoA's training may not cover.

[JasonTodd428]

And I'd rather they have some kind of explanation; leaving it so oblique honestly feels lazy and cheapens his death just as much as brainwashing and faking it would. I know that as comic fans, we're all numb to heroes retraining from the grave, but that's still a really big detail to just gloss over. Some of you guys probably know that I'm a Lobdell-hater; while I don't despise his skipping over Jason's means for resurrecting, I still see it as a missed opportunity that disappoints.

I see it a different way then you mostly because the best reasons they've come up with so far for his being alive have been a lazy bit of writing in the first case and a totally out of character moment in the second. We have Superboy Prime punches reality and bam Jason simply wakes up in his coffin still having the wounds he suffered that caused his death or we have the UTRH movie version which has Ra's attempting to usage his own guilt at causing the events that lead to Jason's death by attempting to give back to Bruce what had been taken from him via stealing Jason's body and then throwing it into the Pit. I like the UTRH scenario better because the SBP punch was utterly lame but frankly I had a hard time believing that Ra's would even feel any kind of guilt over Jason's death. I like having a bit of mystery to it myself. I think it just make more sense to leave it a mystery because it is a total mystery to the characters themselves. Talia was never able to figure out the cause for his resurrection neither before nor after the reboot and Jason also doesn't know the why or how of it. I think it creates a bond between the reader and these characters and also creates an opportunity for a writer to potentially explore how this came to be a little more in depth then just saying outright, "oh, and by the way I was resurrected because of a flux in space time caused by event z".