Jason Todd: Robin, Arkham Knight, Red Hood Appreciation 2018

[darkseidpwns]

I think Arkham Knight version of these events was the best.

[kaimaciel]

I think Arkham Knight version of these events was the best.

I thought "there's no way they can make Death in the Family worse", then I saw what Joker and the other inmates did to Jason... I was wrong.

[Aioros22]

I`ll go into a detailed answer later on but for now a couple points:

1) If they go with the UTRH movie extrapolation, you don`t have to write guilt over Ras ambitions. Or then again, maybe you can. The general audience doesn`t have the decades of publication in their heads over Ras to get what can be considered out of character or not. Liam made him a sympathetic character despite his ruthleness and the same can be said for Nable in Arrow. You can just write Ras looking at a breach in Bruce`s armor. His character would always have an interest in exploiting that to his own means if necessary like a Chess play.

2) Joker being "dead". We don`t know. We don`t even know if he shows up present time in Suicide Squad. Could be flashbacks. I just point it out at the possibility of it since Bruce is older and the affair with Jason seems to have happened "ago". How long? Anyone`s guess.

3) No point wasting time even considering the "Superboy punch" plot point for all the obvious reasons.

[Aioros22]

I thought "there's no way they can make Death in the Family worse", then I saw what Joker and the other inmates did to Jason... I was wrong.

Worse as in more cruel or badly written? To me is more cruel but it worked better for the purpose.

[kaimaciel]

Worse as in more cruel or badly written? To me is more cruel but it worked better for the purpose.

As in more cruel and twisted. Being tortured by Joker and the rest of Batman's rogues for two years, being brainwashed and shown how Bruce had "simply" replaced him with Tim (I still want to know why the hell Bruce gave up his search with only Joker's word, a video that could and was faked and no body).

[godisawesome]

The reason is probably because the script was built by a much less careful and skilled team than they used on previous Arkham games; I'm mostly convinced a lot of the issues with the Robins in Knight are the result of not taking the time to properly research which Robin is which. That would explain why Tim is both apparently somewhat a rookie in Arkahm City who acts mostly like a recognizable adaptation of the character and yet dressed as Robin in A Family Affair, the Knight DLC where he's inexplicably Babs's peer, as well as his sudden romance with her and Knight's accusation that Bats was deploying him basically a month after Jason's disappearance. And why Dick is barely utilized, and why every single plot point in the game is effectively personified as "and then a bad guy took someone hostage whom should have been really hard to take hostage."

Seriously, the script in Arkham Knight is basically the reverse of Arkham Origins's script; in the latter, it was generally the one part of the game that everyone agreed actually was an improvement over Arkham City, while the former is generally admitted as being the weakest element of an otherwise great game.

Can you imagine an Arkham Knight game written with the finesse of the Origins script? Like actually developing the relationship between Jason and Scarecrow, using the fear gas for more than Joker hallucinations, skipping the stupidity of the Joker blood segment while embracing the elements that actually worked, and utilizing the Batfamily in a way that actually showed respect and care were taken for them? I mean, just imagine if we'd actually gotten a dual play fight with Nightwing against Arkahm Knight after he's beaten down Tim, or had Babs hack Jason's communications to try and turn him against Scarecrow, or seeing the badguy's do more than run sidequests!

[darkseidpwns]

The reason is probably because the script was built by a much less careful and skilled team than they used on previous Arkham games; I'm mostly convinced a lot of the issues with the Robins in Knight are the result of not taking the time to properly research which Robin is which. That would explain why Tim is both apparently somewhat a rookie in Arkahm City who acts mostly like a recognizable adaptation of the character and yet dressed as Robin in A Family Affair, the Knight DLC where he's inexplicably Babs's peer, as well as his sudden romance with her and Knight's accusation that Bats was deploying him basically a month after Jason's disappearance. And why Dick is barely utilized, and why every single plot point in the game is effectively personified as "and then a bad guy took someone hostage whom should have been really hard to take hostage."

Seriously, the script in Arkham Knight is basically the reverse of Arkham Origins's script; in the latter, it was generally the one part of the game that everyone agreed actually was an improvement over Arkham City, while the former is generally admitted as being the weakest element of an otherwise great game.

Can you imagine an Arkham Knight game written with the finesse of the Origins script? Like actually developing the relationship between Jason and Scarecrow, using the fear gas for more than Joker hallucinations, skipping the stupidity of the Joker blood segment while embracing the elements that actually worked, and utilizing the Batfamily in a way that actually showed respect and care were taken for them? I mean, just imagine if we'd actually gotten a dual play fight with Nightwing against Arkahm Knight after he's beaten down Tim, or had Babs hack Jason's communications to try and turn him against Scarecrow, or seeing the badguy's do more than run sidequests!

Rocksteady was more interested in Batman and Joker above everything else. Their understanding of Batman's world was quite poor,we wouldn't have gotten their versions of Two-Face,Bane and Hugo Strange if they had truly bothered to do some research beyond wikipedia. I dont care about the game version of what happened to Jason,I was referring to the Genesis mini series.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Rocksteady was more interested in Batman and Joker above everything else. Their understanding of Batman's world was quite poor,we wouldn't have gotten their versions of Two-Face,Bane and Hugo Strange if they had truly bothered to do some research beyond wikipedia. I dont care about the game version of what happened to Jason,I was referring to the Genesis mini series.

Nah, the Genesis mini series is just an example of everything wrong with Jason's character pre N52: They dropped any kind of nuance on his character just to prop him as "a badass", he didn't care for anyone but himself, he was constantly propped up in detriment of other characters (Deathstroke), everything he did lack any kind of internal logical when you take into account what we know about the setting from the games, most characters suddenly became idiots so the plot would work and the worst thing, it make Jason a puppet of the Joker. I honestly can't wrap my head on how the same people that can't stop complaining about the supposed Joker involvement on Jason's N52 origin can sing prases of Arkham Knight Genesis when it take the basic idea and cranks it to eleven.

As for his resurrection, the why and how of Jason's resurrection has never been a relevant part of his character. What is important is his actions after coming back, the emotional conflict that comes by the clash between his moral code and the lessons learned from Bruce. Lobdell addition of the All-Caste helps enormously to that, since Ducra didn't forced anything on Jason (unlike Talia on Lost Days), she simply presented Jason with the knowledge but ultimately, it was HIS choice what he did with that knowledge.

[REAL]

Nah, the Genesis mini series is just an example of everything wrong with Jason's character pre N52: They dropped any kind of nuance on his character just to prop him as "a badass", he didn't care for anyone but himself, he was constantly propped up in detriment of other characters (Deathstroke), everything he did lack any kind of internal logical when you take into account what we know about the setting from the games, most characters suddenly became idiots so the plot would work and the worst thing, it make Jason a puppet of the Joker. I honestly can't wrap my head on how the same people that can't stop complaining about the supposed Joker involvement on Jason's N52 origin can sing prases of Arkham Knight Genesis when it take the basic idea and cranks it to eleven.

Who do you want him to care for? The guy was tortured for two years without anyone finding him. That will messed up anyone and make them apathetic and illogical.

And if anyone was dumbed down, it was batman. The fact that Jason was right there under his nose without him realizing it was quite embarrassing.

Overall, I actually liked AK because it gives us a new take on Jason's history and interesting take of the twisted relationship between Jason and the joker.

To @godisawesome
I think that Jason's resurrection will depend on what WB want the sequel to be about to set up the second batman solo movie. So, they either gonna use LOA and the pit or they might mix Jason with court of Owls and makes them the ones who brought him back, or it might be something completely new and different. So who knows.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

Who do you want him to care for? The guy was tortured for two years without anyone finding him. That will messed up anyone and make them apathetic and illogical.

That is the thing with Jason, his characterization hinges on his empathy for everyone else. So taking that away from him is missng the whole damn point of his character. BEsides, Tomasi didn't even bothered to actually make sure his story fit with the canon of the game, where that was a plot point. Jason went after the Joker in the game precisely because he was sick of the guy getitng away with hurting innocent people and he decided to put an end to it since Batman wouldn't do.

[Aahz]

Nah, the Genesis mini series is just an example of everything wrong with Jason's character pre N52: They dropped any kind of nuance on his character just to prop him as "a badass",

To be honest, in the new 52, they should really should write more often as a "a badass".

I'm also not really happy with Jason characterisation and the plot (I still don't really get why he teamed up with Scare Crow), but at least this series shows that Jason wasn't just just a random street kid, and didn't constantly screw up as Robin. And his fight against Bane (ok that was in the regular Arkham Knight Comics and not in Genesis) was also much more satisfying than what happened in the Eternal series.



What I really would like to see some point would be a good executed version of how Jason as Robin went slowly over to the "dark side" and abandoned Batmans methods, based on the events in the original comics (Two Face, 10 Nights of the Beast, Dumpster Killer, Diplomats Son, Killing Joke, Cult). But thats probaly to long for a movie, and I doubt anyway that many fans will be pleased with a series were Batman is constantly failing.
But if they do it right you could probaly even turn Jason into leaving Bruce and joining the League without killing or brain washing him.

[Aioros22]

As in more cruel and twisted. Being tortured by Joker and the rest of Batman's rogues for two years, being brainwashed and shown how Bruce had "simply" replaced him with Tim (I still want to know why the hell Bruce gave up his search with only Joker's word, a video that could and was faked and no body).

Yeah I liked the more emotional charged aspect of it.

The no body evidence bothered me but that`s clearly a plot hole the size of a giant cheese. That scene for the movie with the burnt uniform would work as the missing piece of the puzzle.

[Dark_Tzitzimine]

RED HOOD/ARSENAL #12
Written by SCOTT LOBDELL
Art by DEXTER SOY
Cover by TYLER KIRKHAM
On sale MAY 11 • 32 pg, FC, $2.99 US • RATED T
Arsenal confronts his greatest mistake: the mercenaries known as the Iron Rule! Good thing Red Hood is there to help him but will Jason’s methods tear down the partnership they’ve been trying so hard to build? Plus, Joker’s Daughter faces her greatest challenge yet: high school!

I don't like the sound of that

[JasonTodd428]

I don't like the sound of that

Well someone in the main May Solicits post has suggested that they are stealth cancelling all the titles because of Rebirth in June and the main reason for the suggestion was the fact that books that are already known to be ending don't have FINAL ISSUE on them. I guess we'll find out what's going on once they start bringing out information on Rebirth sometime this week.

[Starchild]

I'm curious to see what happens to Red Hood/Arsenal when Rebirth rolls around. My guess is that Red Hood will have a book to himself, while Roy will go back to being GA's supporting cast. Whatever happens, I hope they don't ignore the friendship. At this point, it has been solidified.