Jason Todd: Robin, Arkham Knight, Red Hood Appreciation 2018

[Sergard]

http://m-alejandrita.tumblr.com/post/179127259950

There is a fanfiction now that was inspired by this fanart.
It's cute.

[RedBird]

You know, this made me realize something. My expectations for Jason outside of comics? Much Higher, because history. UTRH film? Loved it. Arkham Knight? Loved it. Injustice 2? Loved it. Jason in Titans? So far loving the concept they're going for, so yeah. I'm excited for that one. Too bad I gotta wait for Netflix to put it up once the seasons over (I'm assuming). I hear the episodes are getting better.

[Rise]

.....

To be fair, when characters ever not ooc outside their books (just look at the way Bendis handled JL in Superman which was really cringy) except for some very rare occasions? Characters who appear as guests are always used just for the sake of story and it's not easy for writers who never have history with them to get their voices right from couple of pages.

And in the future alternative scenarios you mentioned, Jason end up picking himself in all of them. He become a successful businessman in the booster future (I know King couldn't help himself to twist it later since he love his dark twists, but still..), he picked himself up and was the only one helping Kate in that future while the rest either abandon the cause or become twisted and he end up redeeming himself and got himself a family in MP. That's not bad at all.

[G-Potion]

To be fair, I was less going with general pessimism towards Jason appearances and more the fact that I was looking at the storytelling and putting two and two together. First time Jason is mentioned. Okay cool, why mention him, he is almost always been ignored, so why do characters suddenly give a damn?

I think (hope) the reason that Jason gets in now is because DC is trying to promote him, hence we are now seeing him in Mother Panic, TT, TT Annual and BB. Tumblr source also hinted that we'll be getting more. Which is a positive thing in the bigger picture. I hope.

[RedBird]

To be fair, when characters ever not ooc outside their books except for some very rare occasions (just look at the way Bendis handled JL in Superman which was really cringy)? Characters who appear as guests are always used for the story and it's not easy for writers who never have history with them to get their voices right from couple of pages.

I know, that's why I mentioned him (and others) not usually have 'great' outcomes. Which is why my expectations are considerably low, at least for comics.

And in the future alternative scenarios you mentioned, Jason end up picking himself in all of them. He become a successful businessman in the booster future (I know King couldn't help himself to twist it later since he love his dark twists, but still..), he picked himself up and was the only one helping Kate in that future while the rest either abandon the cause or become twisted and he end up redeeming himself and got himself a family in MP. That's not bad at all.

Yeah, I already wrote a whole piece about how I liked the ending for MP, but like I said I did not care for how Jason was portrayed in the beginning, getting innocents and especially kids hurt should be a no no. And sorry Rise, I just can't look over the fact that Jason becomes a straight up child killer in Batman just cause he is also a self made business man, that just makes him a corrupt business man then, that one is REALLY not one I can spin positively. The Batwoman one had him pick himself up sure, but we didn't even see where that went. All we were privy to was Jason going off the deep end and then being kinda okay next to Kate. The only part that was fleshed out was Jason losing himself.

And to quote myself, all these examples are still not going against the comics grain and being 'major appearances where Jason was either not OOC, hampered by another UTRH-like story line or in general had a 'bad ending' negative alternate scenario'. I wasn't trying to claim cringe, bad or lame appearances was a Jason centric problem, it happens to all characters of course, but these three issues, and especially the UTRH-like (crazy villain/bad robin etc) story line issue, seem to be hamper Jason in his appearances.

[RedBird]

I think (hope) the reason that Jason gets in now is because DC is trying to promote him, hence we are now seeing him in Mother Panic, TT, TT Annual and BB. Tumblr source also hinted that we'll be getting more. Which is a positive thing in the bigger picture. I hope.

Despite my grievances Mother Panic ended much better than I would have expected, so much so that I was disappointed we didn't get more of a continuation. I'll take 6 issues of Jason in the background being a fun Uncle to Fennec Fox instead thanks. Don't know how TT is going to handle the character, I'm still curious over this whole 'betrayal' thing, is Jason selling Damian out to bad guys? Is he giving Bruce info about Damian and his prison? Is it a complete misunderstanding since we know there is a Wingman impostor in rhato soon? That last one would actually impress me that the editors managed to tie two comics together.

[G-Potion]

Don't know how TT is going to handle the character, I'm still curious over this whole 'betrayal' thing, is Jason selling Damian out to bad guys? Is he giving Bruce info about Damian and his prison? Is it a complete misunderstanding since we know there is a Wingman impostor in rhato soon? That last one would actually impress me that the editors managed to tie two comics together.

TT editor used to edit RHATO and is still a fan. That should count for something when it comes to the portrayal of Jason, maybe.

[RedBird]

TT editor used to edit RHATO and is still a fan. That should count for something when it comes to the portrayal of Jason, maybe.

Well I think it's still the writers call at the end of the day how characters are portrayed, BUT, since he has been on both titles maybe that could help to support the 'tied story lines' argument, that is if the story does go with the betrayal being a misunderstanding in TT maybe leading to a revelation in rhato that Jason was set up by impostor Wingman or something or rather, connecting the story lines.

[Rise]

Correct me if I wrong since I haven't read the booster arc since it came out, but didn't these kids die in unfortunate accident while they were trying to steal cars? I don't remember Jason intending for them to die nor he created the device for that purpose. It's not ok that his device end up killing some kids, but calling him a "child killer" is a bit harsh since he didn't went out of his way to kill these kids. Also, the booster future was all twisted and dark that shouldn't be taken seriously and the only one who come off looking bad from it was Booster himself.

I guess I'm just little tired of always seeing posts here expecting the worst case scenarios whenever Jason show up in something. It's not that serious so let's take it easy.

[RedBird]

Correct me if I wrong since I haven't read the booster arc since it came out, but didn't these kids die in unfortunate accident while they were trying to steal cars? I don't remember Jason intending for them to die nor he created the device for that purpose. It's not ok that his device end up killing some kids, but calling him a "child killer" is a bit harsh since he didn't went out of his way to kill these kids. Also, the booster future was all twisted and dark that shouldn't be taken seriously and the only one who come off looking bad from it was Booster himself.

I guess I'm just little tired of always seeing posts here expecting the worst case scenarios whenever Jason show up in something. It's not that serious so let's take it easy.

I think most the bat characters come off looking bad in future scenarios, it's why I mentioned it as a reason for me not being too optimistic about BB, though like I said, BB has a better track record so it might surpirse.

And no worries I am takin it easy, I never claimed this was a serious issue, but sorry Rise, I can't help my feelings or rather fearing(s) of these negative outcomes, not when they seem to happen a little too often for my liking. In BBs case, it's a little different to be fair, this was just me sensing a pattern with the story and how it decided to unfold itself. In most scenarios, comics appearances have just made me much more careful about feeling invested thanks to some patterns crumby/negative portrayals. I await everything with caution.

EDIT: Also about the Booster scenario, yeah the deaths are unintended, but his statement about them was that such incidents are 'the unfortunate biproduct of trying to improve this tough city'. I think both from viewing his smug face when released on bail and that answer are meant to imply that he doesn't really care and feels the deaths are just unfortunate consequence to what has to be done to help Gotham. So yeah, if someone is okay with something they did killing children, I think child killer is still an appropriate description.

[RedBird]

Moving on, I retract my statement, Bombshells along with lil Gotham and Tiny Titans had the best portrayals, of Jason and (between those last two) perhaps of any characters. XD

@dori_yagi



Seriously though those comics were so cute, so pleasant.

[Konja7]

I guess I'm just little tired of always seeing posts here expecting the worst case scenarios whenever Jason show up in something. It's not that serious so let's take it easy.

It is clearly that there is a situation where the writers handle Jason based on a certain bad reputation (not his current comic) that he has. That's why fans can not help being defensive.

Batman Beyond clearly put Jason in a negative light, due to the way he was presented. I still expect some kind of subversion (like Damian's case), but I understand that many fans are worried.


I'm more worried about the Three Jokers Story, because I'm pretty sure Jason is who "heal wrong" in this story.

"Did not heal at all" is the special one, then that goes to Batman, while "heal good" goes definitely for Barbara.

[RedBird]

I'm more worried about the Three Jokers Story, because I'm pretty sure Jason is who "heal wrong" in this story.

"Did not heal at all" is the special one, then that goes to Batman, while "heal good" goes definitely for Barbara.

That was my assumption as well, if it was my choice I would have placed Jason in the 'Did not heal at all' category, but that leaves Bruce with 'healed wrong' and that doesn't sound quite right either, plus as you mention 'did not heal at all' sounds kinda 'special' so that would most likely go to the main star of the story.

[Rise]

And what that bad reputation he has? Was Superman writen as a villain in Injustice because of his bad reputation? Did Miller make Dick a joker in his verse because of his bad reputation? Etc.

I don't think Jason looked in negative light in BB. It was said that the tragedies and the violent in his life did affect him, but it didn't say that it turned him into bad person and he was also even shown as one of the heroes in Gotham.

Making assumptions about stories before they finish or even come out is pointless complain and add nothing. If they are good, good for us. If they aren't, no harm no foul.

[RedBird]

Making assumptions about stories before they finish or even come out is pointless complain and add nothing. If they are good, good for us. If they aren't, no harm no foul.

Well unfortunately comics are a month by month or bi monthly medium, kinda wanna talk about SOMETHING while the time is passing and the story is released piece by piece. What's wrong with looking at the pieces in hand and trying to put it together or theorize for the discussion? In the middle of a story curiosities and assumptions are all we really have. Did you sense a different direction from this BB story? If so, do tell.

When the story is over of course everyone will judge the tale based on it's own merits, no one is influenced by their own presumptions here, we all just have different expectations and readings of the same books.