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  1. #1441
    D*mned Prince of Gotham JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooFlyToFail View Post
    Exactly. Keep all the development, but depict Jason's stories as more serious in tone, as well as more deconstructions of what a Batman, or Dick Grayson, story would be. To me, that's what Jason is supposed to represent; an argument to Batman's philosophy. In the Arkham Knight annual issue, Jason describes the world as not black and white, but full of different POVs. Jason's wasn't raised the way any of the other members of the Bat Family was; he wasn't raised with a set moral foundation, and has had to adjust it constantly. It allows him to poke holes into Bruce's philosophy. I'd like to see that explored more, without making him a villain.

    Also. I've always had the impression that Jason is quite cerebral, under all the cynicism, and sarcasm. More thinking, planning, and manipulating (good, and bad, guys) Jason, rather than action Jason sometimes.

    Maybe show that Jason being able to read people goes beyond just combat.

    This can be done without making him a villain.
    That sounds pretty good to me as well and seeing him and Damian having a day together as civilians could be fun.
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  2. #1442
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooFlyToFail View Post
    Exactly. Keep all the development, but depict Jason's stories as more serious in tone, as well as more deconstructions of what a Batman, or Dick Grayson, story would be. To me, that's what Jason is supposed to represent; an argument to Batman's philosophy. In the Arkham Knight annual issue, Jason describes the world as not black and white, but full of different POVs. Jason's wasn't raised the way any of the other members of the Bat Family was; he wasn't raised with a set moral foundation, and has had to adjust it constantly. It allows him to poke holes into Bruce's philosophy. I'd like to see that explored more, without making him a villain.

    Also. I've always had the impression that Jason is quite cerebral, under all the cynicism, and sarcasm. More thinking, planning, and manipulating (good, and bad, guys) Jason, rather than action Jason sometimes.

    Maybe show that Jason being able to read people goes beyond just combat.

    This can be done without making him a villain.
    Esxcept that Tomasi botched the execution something fierce. All of Jason's talk rings hoolow when his only actions are focused in further his veendetta against Bruce, with little to what happens to everyone else. And no, Jason didn't had to modify his moral code. something consistent with him is that he always had clear what was wrong and what was good, the differecne with Bruce is that he's willing to compromise anything to ensure innocent people is safe.

  3. #1443
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAG2045 View Post
    Agreed, I want Jason back in the bat-comics but I think a series of him learning to accept what happened and mending his relationships with Dick/Tim/Damien/Barbara would be interesting - I liked in Death of the Family how Tim & Jason stayed friends as "outsiders" (cant remember exact wording) within the Bat-Family and I hope we get more integration, not this "I am the dark one of the family, all I ever do is argue with Nightwing and when I join the group for any reason I leave the team straight away after!"
    Jason should stay kind of an outsider imo. In most of the Batfamily cross overs he is to much in line with the rest of the family.
    He is the guy who should sometimes question Bruce methods, and from time to use or at least suggest stuff the others wouldn't, but at the moment Damian is the only one who does something like that.

    I have in general the not the feeling that any of the writers in the last Batfamily events really made good use of Jason, or that they really have a concept what his place/niche/role in the Batfamily is (apart from beeing the one who drinks beer).

    Cass did this head/hand/heart-thing with Tim, Jason and Dick I thought, had finally some kind of concept, but after this he was mostly used as comic relief/side kick for Tim and apart from being the guinea pig for this brain washing methods didn't provided anything to the plot.


    @pre rebirth Jason
    I would actually like to see something like Red Hood: the lost Days or RHatO: Futures End. That doesn't mean I want him running around a kill criminals. But some more serious, were Jason really has to come up with some good strategy to take down the Bad Guys, and with better and more Bad Ass fight and action scenes (which were quite rare in RHatO and RH/A ).

    Apart from this I would like to see his relation with Dick better defined (Grayson #12 for example felt extreme ooc for me) and would like to see him hang out with Damian (and Maps).

  4. #1444
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Lobdell's run probably should have ended with RHatO. RH/A doesn't sell particularly well, it isn't reviewed particularly well (if its reviewed at all), and more times not when it is talked about its talked about to mock DC with. Theres nothing there that says its something they should maybe keep going. There are plenty of books that i don't munch enjoy, but still understand that other people do and that overall their general reception is positive despite it not being for me. Thats not really the case here though. I think its safe to say its general reception has been rather poor. So i think to say that Jason needs a new direction and a new voice is an understatement. And frankly if they wanted to give Jason and Roy the Starfire treatment and ignore pretty much everything Lobdell did, u wouldn't hear any complaining from me.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 02-17-2016 at 03:02 PM.

  5. #1445
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Lobdell's run probably should have ended with RHatO. RH/A doesn't sell particularly well, it isn't reviewed particularly well (if its reviewed at all), and more times not when it is talked about its talked about to mock DC with.
    Even if the series is not that great, it is not nearly as bad as some reviewer make it.

    But may be it's really time for a new team (as long as it is non of the guys from B&RE).
    Last edited by Aahz; 02-17-2016 at 03:15 PM.

  6. #1446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    But may be it's really time for a new team (as long as it is non of the guys from B&RE).
    What about Genevieve Valentine though?

  7. #1447
    D*mned Prince of Gotham JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    . And frankly if they wanted to give Jason and Roy the Starfire treatment and ignore pretty much everything Lobdell did, u wouldn't hear any complaining from me.
    If by that you mean a complete 180 so far as characterization goes then no thank you. I can't stand Roy in Titan's Hunt, Barbara in Batgirl or Starfire in her own solo and it's not because I don't like light, upbeat books or because I hate change. It's because they went to the extreme opposite end of the pole to me. If they took Jason the same direction then chances are very high, based on the aformentioned characters, that I wouldn't like the direction. It would likely just be a return of villain Jason which is a toxic direction to me these days because of how mishandled it was in the pre-flashpoint days.
    Last edited by JasonTodd428; 02-17-2016 at 07:29 PM.
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  8. #1448
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Lobdell's run probably should have ended with RHatO. RH/A doesn't sell particularly well, it isn't reviewed particularly well (if its reviewed at all), and more times not when it is talked about its talked about to mock DC with. Theres nothing there that says its something they should maybe keep going. There are plenty of books that i don't munch enjoy, but still understand that other people do and that overall their general reception is positive despite it not being for me. Thats not really the case here though. I think its safe to say its general reception has been rather poor. So i think to say that Jason needs a new direction and a new voice is an understatement. And frankly if they wanted to give Jason and Roy the Starfire treatment and ignore pretty much everything Lobdell did, u wouldn't hear any complaining from me.
    The book doesn't recieve a lot of reviews simply because DC has never bothered to give it proper promotion. The only site that continues "reviewing" it is Batman News and they have a marked bias against Lobdell making their reviews useless. During Robin War the book got mostly positive reviews http://comicbookroundup.com/comic-bo...ood--arsenal/7

    The book itself is pretty well received both here and Reddit with the most harshest critcism being found on 4chan and ComicVine and those criticism are usually by the same persons so yeah.

  9. #1449
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    I wasn't a fan of what Lobdell did with Starfire, but pairing up Jason and Roy was brilliant in my book. They actually feel like good friends and make sense together. Far more than Roy did with characters like Dick. So I do think that is a relationship that should continue through whatever Rebirth is going to be because both characters are better with it.

  10. #1450
    IRON MAN Tony Stark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooFlyToFail View Post
    Exactly. Keep all the development, but depict Jason's stories as more serious in tone, as well as more deconstructions of what a Batman, or Dick Grayson, story would be. To me, that's what Jason is supposed to represent; an argument to Batman's philosophy. In the Arkham Knight annual issue, Jason describes the world as not black and white, but full of different POVs. Jason's wasn't raised the way any of the other members of the Bat Family was; he wasn't raised with a set moral foundation, and has had to adjust it constantly. It allows him to poke holes into Bruce's philosophy. I'd like to see that explored more, without making him a villain.

    Also. I've always had the impression that Jason is quite cerebral, under all the cynicism, and sarcasm. More thinking, planning, and manipulating (good, and bad, guys) Jason, rather than action Jason sometimes.

    Maybe show that Jason being able to read people goes beyond just combat.

    This can be done without making him a villain.
    I agree with you on just about all your points. I hate when they show Jason as as the Robin that just punches hard. Winnick wrote him perfectly imo. Under the Red Hood had him 10 steps ahead of everyone and they should use that more. Also he is a great detective. He learned from the best. Show that more.
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  11. #1451
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    What about Genevieve Valentine though?
    I'm not a big fan of her Catwoman run. it was well written but it didn't felt like Catwoman. And I don't recall that the series had great action scenes or good villains.

  12. #1452
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    LoL, well RHatO is continuing though Rebirth. I really don't get it, and i think its unfortunate for Jason who IMO needs something new exciting, but good for u guys that like it i guess.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 02-18-2016 at 04:58 PM.

  13. #1453
    D*mned Prince of Gotham JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    LoL, well RHatO is continuing though Rebirth. I really don't get it, and i think its unfortunate for Jason who IMO needs something new exciting, but good for u guys that like it i guess.
    I imagine it's with a new writer, a new direction and that Jason will have a new team as well.
    Supporting LION FORGE COMICS and other independent publishers.

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    Oh my goodness gracious! I've been bamboozled!

    When we hit our lowest point, we are open to the greatest change. AVATAR AANG

  14. #1454
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonTodd428 View Post
    I imagine it's with a new writer, a new direction and that Jason will have a new team as well.
    I wouldn't be surprised if Tim is on it. I guessing Arsenal is moving to Titans, and rumor is Damian is taking over TT, so im not seeing a book where Tim could be.

  15. #1455
    Astonishing Member Dark_Tzitzimine's Avatar
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    So I guess this is it for Roy and Jason's friendship

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