Captain America vs Agent Smith

[Guy1]

When they can smear 15 people in about two seconds, or disappear from view and appear somewhere else - visually instantly - while three people go flying, I'll believe it.

Basically, where are the feats?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4e4s42yekQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfnoAUT0Jd8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT3GnJStVEw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwtifqCmGuw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYwdzYC3uUc

[buutenks]

Obviously normal agent smith wins since his hand speed and reaction time is far above caps.Strength wise,cap has pretty impressive strength feats and so does agent smith,durability id say agent smith is proly more durable.

Enhanced no need to comment.

[Sharpandpointies]

W

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4e4s42yekQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfnoAUT0Jd8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT3GnJStVEw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwtifqCmGuw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYwdzYC3uUc

Will watch all of them for fun, but to comment on the first, what Trinity does is so far below what I noted for Cass, it's crazy.

Heck, that is Casual Day for people like Comic Cap or Batman. :)

[Guy1]

W

Will watch all of them for fun, but to comment on the first, what Trinity does is so far below what I noted for Cass, it's crazy.

Heck, that is Casual Day for people like Comic Cap or Batman.

It intro's the agents and has them chasing her around, so I thought it was worth posting.

[Sharpandpointies]

sure - will have a look!

[Sharpandpointies]

You know, aside from the jumps, it's not like her and Smith absolutely blow the cops away, running-wise. Again, Comic Batman or Cap would put them to shame in that first vid.

[buutenks]

Ye pretty much,best they are a bit faster than normal humans,but those cops looked pretty out of shape so to speak.But their hand speed is very fast,well agent smith anyways with his super speed punching neo.

[Sharpandpointies]

Morpheus versus Smith...nothing serious for speed there (man, it hurts to watch).

Rooftop scene has that little Agent Bullet-time thing going, but it's not on the same level as 'Moves so fast that the human eye loses track of their entire body' thing. No exceptional speed - at all - in the chase sequence.

Smith-Neo...why do you make me watch this fight again? :) Some good hitting strength stuff here, but the only really FAST thing is that one superfast punch thing Smith does.

And that really wouldn't be exceptional speed - at all - for someone capable of reacting to bullets.

[Sharpandpointies]

Ye pretty much,best they are a bit faster than normal humans,but those cops looked pretty out of shape so to speak.But their hand speed is very fast,well agent smith anyways with his super speed punching neo.

That one time, yes. Better than possible for a normal human, to be sure. Possibly in line with someone capable of bullet-timing pistol rounds at close range.

[buutenks]

That one time, yes. Better than possible for a normal human, to be sure. Possibly in line with someone capable of bullet-timing pistol rounds at close range.

Well,guess that show that agent smith was more unique.

[Siriel]

No other agent is ever in a position to brace themselves for machine gun punching, so no.

[Wavemaninawe]

A shield that would be worth a grand total of "jack" and "shit" as Cap is getting blitzed and pummeled by superior strength.

It's PIS. The agents have consistently shown to be superior in every stat to the hackers by a vast degree. Whether they need to activate the BT or not(which I doubt) they are still stupidly faster. Trinity should have been smacked down but plot said otherwise.

It was PIS in this case. The agents have consistently shown to be absurdly superior to the hackers in every way.


Everytime they are shot at. Whether it is from a SMG or a handgun. They casually dodge it. When they fight they mostly utterly blitz the hackers. The hackers can land some hits sure as the speed gap isn't that large, but they can't keep up with the agents.

It's not PIS if there are no showings to contradict it.

The Agents have massively superior strength and durability compared to the Hackers. Speed? Not really, except for those specific instances where they need to dodge bullets and they have the time to notice the shooter in advance.

So far there hasn't been anything presented to suggest otherwise.

It's CIS if anything. They probably could switch on BT speed and simply steam roll the Hackers in H2H... probably. But instead they slug it out while relying on their ability to no sell all hits. And they seem to do this on every single occasion. Explain it as dumb AI if you wish... which IMO would make a lot of sense. An AI wouldn't have the same range of initiative and out-of-the-box thinking as a human. Regardless of the reason, feats are feats and at the moment their presented feats don't measure up to your claim.

The argument doesn't have much substance to it really.

It does since there so far been nothing presented to suggest otherwise.

Agents can go super speed when they need to dodge bullets... unless they are caught by surprise. The rest of the time they show no significant speed advantage over the Hackers.

Also, just to undertsand it (I don't know the old ruling)
This scene is not considered Bullet Timing?

I think that was considered a border line case the last time around.


Here is my take on it:

@ 0:42 Neo starts to lean back at the same instant as the gun is fired but moves noticeably slower than the bullet in flight. Insanely faster than anybody could IRL, but still a lot slower than the bullet.

0:43-0:49 Neo keeps leaning further back than Fat Joe while the Agent tries and fails to tag him with 5 more rounds.

0:50 the Agent adjusts his aim enough to grace both of Neo's legs with bullet #8 & #9, bringing him down.


Quite impressive for being something done for the first time by sheer instinct, but not really a BT feat in my opinion. He isn't reacting to the bullet in flight, or changing direction. He is trying to get out of the line of fire by simply falling backwards and is still moving a lot slower than the bullet which BTW happens to be a heavyweight pistol round (i.e. on the slower end of the spectrum). So I'll add my vote in the same direction as Sharp: not BT.


However, this brings up another consideration:
If the Agent's really were BT by default, wouldn't they be able to track him better with their aim?
Granted, they are using Desert Eagles which are really quite a ridiculous choice for a combat sidearm, just like most other types of magnum guns. The recoil is going to wreak holy hell on your arm and negate whatever accuracy you were supposed to have.
Of course this is fiction and the Agents have super strength, so they could probably give less than half a damn about the physics, but their aim is still just as terrible as you would expect of somebody IRL, put in similar situations. They simply do a piss poor job of adjusting their aim to a moving target... on every single occasion.

W

Will watch all of them for fun, but to comment on the first, what Trinity does is so far below what I noted for Cass, it's crazy.

Heck, that is Casual Day for people like Comic Cap or Batman.

You know, aside from the jumps, it's not like her and Smith absolutely blow the cops away, running-wise. Again, Comic Batman or Cap would put them to shame in that first vid.

Decisively slower than what a CBPH is implied to move at.

Still an impressive agility & strength feat to go full barrel on such steep slopes.

[Lord Falcon]

Been having trouble logging in, seems I missed some stuff. Don't have anything to add at the moment that others haven't said regarding why agents aren't bullet timers except in specific instances.

I differ from some in believing that Cap would beat a single movie one Agent Smith. Cap's skill level is considerably above Smith, he's faster than Smith's normal speed and he's never going to give Smith the opportunity to set up a bullet time situation.

It's not PIS if there are no showings to contradict it.

The Agents have massively superior strength and durability compared to the Hackers. Speed? Not really, except for those specific instances where they need to dodge bullets and they have the time to notice the shooter in advance.

So far there hasn't been anything presented to suggest otherwise.

It's CIS if anything. They probably could switch on BT speed and simply steam roll the Hackers in H2H... probably. But instead they slug it out while relying on their ability to no sell all hits. And they seem to do this on every single occasion. Explain it as dumb AI if you wish... which IMO would make a lot of sense. An AI wouldn't have the same range of initiative and out-of-the-box thinking as a human. Regardless of the reason, feats are feats and at the moment their presented feats don't measure up to your claim.

It's actually got to do with the purpose of the agents themselves. Agents are meant to police the Matrix, catching hackers while keeping up the illusion of the real world for most of the populace. They have certain limits that they need to adhere to, limits that the matrix has decided on. Their maximum capacity is set at a level where they should steamroll human beings, but below overly disruptive levels of power.

After Agent Smith is freed from the control of the Matrix, he goes on to prove that those limits are in place for a very good reason.

[Cody]

As a side note: Smith would absolutely become a bullet timer after being freed from the control of the Matrix and taking over the Oracle. Neo is and you can't say he just activates certain "subroutines" to become a bullet timer as he isn't a machine. And in order to keep up with a bullet timer; you'd have to be one yourself.

[Sharpandpointies]

As a side note: Smith would absolutely become a bullet timer after being freed from the control of the Matrix and taking over the Oracle. Neo is and you can't say he just activates certain "subroutines" to become a bullet timer as he isn't a machine. And in order to keep up with a bullet timer; you'd have to be one yourself.

I have no idea, personally, about how Neo is depicted in movies 2 and 3 (I gave up after the first) except for 'the burly brawl' scene (in which Neo doesn't show any superspeed, as I recall), or whatever it's called. Nor do I know if Smith shows any superspeed later in the movies. So I can't really comment on that. ^_^ Maybe they have great feats for speed? :)

I'm just going to point out that 'keeping up with a bullet-timer' who isn't shown using their speed isn't normally considered anything but PIS around here.

Heck, we just went through a discussion regarding Batgirl-era Shiva, and how she 'keeps up with' Cassandra Cain when Cass is actually explicitly shown to be using her speed, and that doesn't grant Shiva bullet-time status.