Captain America vs Agent Smith

[Cody]

I have no idea, personally, about how Neo is depicted in movies 2 and 3 (I gave up after the first) except for 'the burly brawl' scene (in which Neo doesn't show any superspeed, as I recall), or whatever it's called. Nor do I know if Smith shows any superspeed later in the movies. So I can't really comment on that. ^_^ Maybe they have great feats for speed?

I'm just going to point out that 'keeping up with a bullet-timer' who isn't shown using their speed isn't normally considered anything but PIS around here.

Heck, we just went through a discussion regarding Batgirl-era Shiva, and how she 'keeps up with' Cassandra Cain when Cass is actually explicitly shown to be using her speed, and that doesn't grant Shiva bullet-time status.

Well "Super Smith" had a short onscreen time and it really only involved fighting and beating Neo. So it is fair to say that he is at least just as fast.

Neo consistently reacts to bullets fired at him from the end of movie 1 and onwards. After the bullets are fired he puts up his hand and stops them. That right there is a pretty good example of BT.

[Sharpandpointies]

Well "Super Smith" had a short onscreen time and it really only involved fighting and beating Neo. So it is fair to say that he is at least just as fast.

Don't they fight so fast the rain stops or something? See, that would be a good feat and definitely show he's supposed to be Neo's equal.

Neo consistently reacts to bullets fired at him from the end of movie 1 and onwards. After the bullets are fired he puts up his hand and stops them. That right there is a pretty good example of BT.

I've never had a problem with that, myself.

Me, in this thread:

The only real stuff on the old board was that Neo wasn't a BTer until the end of movie 1, and Trinity wasn't, period.

And:

He's aim dodging. Doing it WELL, but watch the actual scene again, carefully, and pay attention to the details.

He also gets hit.

The BT stuff happens later, right at the end.

Bolded for emphasis (and fun!).

My comments about movies two and three is that I haven't seen them, so I can't talk about 'Smith showing speed equal to Neo', because I don't know if Neo shows any speed in their fights. Certainly he doesn't in 'The Burly Brawl', a lovely example of PIS in action (Neo demonstrates ZERO superspeed in that fight, despite it happening well-after he does the 'stop bullets' thing in the first movie).

Is he fast? Yep. Is he hitting with impossible strength? Sure. Does he do absolutely impossible things (the helicopter jump, for example)? No question! But there's no 'bullet-time' speed shown, and in the slo-mo shots, he's not moving any faster than anything around him EXCEPT at about 4:40 where he does the silly 'run around the pole' thing.

...also, I am irked at you for making me watch that again. ^_^

[Cody]

My comments about movies two and three is that I haven't seen them, so I can't talk about 'Smith showing speed equal to Neo', because I don't know if Neo shows any speed in their fights. Certainly he doesn't in 'The Burly Brawl', a lovely example of PIS in action (Neo demonstrates ZERO superspeed in that fight, despite it happening well-after he does the 'stop bullets' thing in the first movie).

Is he fast? Yep. Is he hitting with impossible strength? Sure. Does he do absolutely impossible things (the helicopter jump, for example)? No question! But there's no 'bullet-time' speed shown, and in the slo-mo shots, he's not moving any faster than anything around him EXCEPT at about 4:40 where he does the silly 'run around the pole' thing.

One could always assume he is moving in fast time tbh.

...also, I am irked at you for making me watch that again. ^_^

Never were much of a fan of the Matrix movies I take it? :P

[Guy1]

Don't they fight so fast the rain stops or something? See, that would be a good feat and definitely show he's supposed to be Neo's equal.

[Sharpandpointies]

One could always assume he is moving in fast time tbh.

Given people are falling from the sky at normal speed, I wouldn't make that assumption. Especially with the liberal use of special effects and slomo speckled throughout the fight, otherwise.

Simplest explanation there is PIS.

Never were much of a fan of the Matrix movies I take it? :P

I was okay with the first movie - not amazed, but okay - until the point where the savior of mankind decided 'Despite Morpheus making a decision to sacrifice himself, I'm going to murder a crap-ton of innocent, normal people just doing their jobs as security in order to save my friend.'

That ended the movie for me. :(

[Sharpandpointies]

Thanks, Guy. :)

Having watched the whole thing....

1. Impossible movements;
2. Flight;
3. Superstrength (obviously);
4. Superspeed in the fight? Lacking.

Man, you'd think they'd put that in.

[Wavemaninawe]

Been having trouble logging in, seems I missed some stuff. Don't have anything to add at the moment that others haven't said regarding why agents aren't bullet timers except in specific instances.

I differ from some in believing that Cap would beat a single movie one Agent Smith. Cap's skill level is considerably above Smith, he's faster than Smith's normal speed and he's never going to give Smith the opportunity to set up a bullet time situation.

I have my doubts about that.

Personally, I would put Cap's speed slightly above what the Agents have shown so far as their default speed. But I don't see how he can cover 100ft faster than an Agent can think "Go Go Gadget Wired Reflexes".

It's actually got to do with the purpose of the agents themselves. Agents are meant to police the Matrix, catching hackers while keeping up the illusion of the real world for most of the populace. They have certain limits that they need to adhere to, limits that the matrix has decided on. Their maximum capacity is set at a level where they should steamroll human beings, but below overly disruptive levels of power.

After Agent Smith is freed from the control of the Matrix, he goes on to prove that those limits are in place for a very good reason.

Good point. Even though they seem to make a somewhat open interpretation of that rulebook. What with throwing bystanders around like rag dolls, jumping from roof to roof and possessing people in broad daylight.

Doesn't that still count as CIS though? They bend the rules regarding their other superpowers, but use their speed boost only for one singular purpose.

Thanks, Guy.

Having watched the whole thing....

1. Impossible movements;
2. Flight;
3. Superstrength (obviously);
4. Superspeed in the fight? Lacking.

Man, you'd think they'd put that in.

Rule Of Cool I assume.

I just rewatched the castle fight against that French dude's mooks who break out the entire medieval armory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4puUo4OYViE

Neo makes a minor use of TK, but none of his speed even though he most likely could. Not even to stop French Dude from escaping out the door.

Textbook PIS?

[Postmania]

It's because Neo is dumb.

[Lord Falcon]

I have my doubts about that.

Personally, I would put Cap's speed slightly above what the Agents have shown so far as their default speed. But I don't see how he can cover 100ft faster than an Agent can think "Go Go Gadget Wired Reflexes".

Agents can't use their speed outside of the specific function they activate it for, based on portrayal. They know they have to dodge bullets, so they activate a program to go superspeed to dodge bullets. They (or at least Smith) have an opponent set up in a position where they can't back off, fall or dodge, so they activate their 'stand in place while punching at superspeed' program. I would infer they are unable to move from the spot they're standing on when they activate superspeed and while it is activated.

When they don't have that set up time (admittedly it's just a second or so), their speed isn't superhuman.

Good point. Even though they seem to make a somewhat open interpretation of that rulebook. What with throwing bystanders around like rag dolls, jumping from roof to roof and possessing people in broad daylight.

Doesn't that still count as CIS though? They bend the rules regarding their other superpowers, but use their speed boost only for one singular purpose.

The agents themselves aren't necessarily interested in the underlying goals that the matrix has for them. The limits they are under are set by an outside force (the matrix) and they do their thing within the confines of those limits. The matrix may not like that agents sometimes use their powers in full view of other people, but is forced to leave in-the-field decisions up to the judgement of individual agents or impair their ability to carry out their jobs by setting easily exploitable situational limiters (if the matrix is able to even do that, this latter option is speculation on my part).

Of course, being ultimately under the thumb of the matrix, agents have to actually still do their jobs acceptably or risk deletion.

As Agent Smith showed in his fight with Neo in movie 1, the speed boost isn't necessarily just for bullet dodging. Their strength and durability are constant, their speed and possession are activated.

[Guy1]

Agents can't use their speed outside of the specific function they activate it for, based on portrayal. They know they have to dodge bullets, so they activate a program to go superspeed to dodge bullets. They (or at least Smith) have an opponent set up in a position where they can't back off, fall or dodge, so they activate their 'stand in place while punching at superspeed' program. I would infer they are unable to move from the spot they're standing on when they activate superspeed and while it is activated.

When they don't have that set up time (admittedly it's just a second or so), their speed isn't superhuman.




The agents themselves aren't necessarily interested in the underlying goals that the matrix has for them. The limits they are under are set by an outside force (the matrix) and they do their thing within the confines of those limits. The matrix may not like that agents sometimes use their powers in full view of other people, but is forced to leave in-the-field decisions up to the judgement of individual agents or impair their ability to carry out their jobs by setting easily exploitable situational limiters (if the matrix is able to even do that, this latter option is speculation on my part).

Of course, being ultimately under the thumb of the matrix, agents have to actually still do their jobs acceptably or risk deletion.

As Agent Smith showed in his fight with Neo in movie 1, the speed boost isn't necessarily just for bullet dodging. Their strength and durability are constant, their speed and possession are activated.

This sounds right to me.

[Captain Morgan]

Bullets seem like a weird thing in the Matrix in general. Neo has that scene where he blocks all those bullets, but then they manage to cut him with swords and stuff. It does seem like there are bullet specific programs and hacks in the Matrix that don't translate into comparable speed stats applied everywhere else.

[Guy1]

Agents can't use their speed outside of the specific function they activate it for, based on portrayal. They know they have to dodge bullets, so they activate a program to go superspeed to dodge bullets. They (or at least Smith) have an opponent set up in a position where they can't back off, fall or dodge, so they activate their 'stand in place while punching at superspeed' program. I would infer they are unable to move from the spot they're standing on when they activate superspeed and while it is activated.
When they don't have that set up time (admittedly it's just a second or so), their speed isn't superhuman.

https://youtu.be/b65MLS6_w9Q?t=1m41s

[Lord Falcon]

https://youtu.be/b65MLS6_w9Q?t=1m41s

You know, I think I'm finally gonna check out DBZ Abridged. Random looks have gotten enough laughs out of me over the years.

[buutenks]

Most likely,their reaction time and short range body movement is super fast,while their long range movement is not that fast.That would explain why neo and agent smith arent fighting at invisible speeds.

Basically they can dodge/deflect or stop a bullet but cant outrun it.

[Sharpandpointies]

Most likely,their reaction time and short range body movement is super fast,while their long range movement is not that fast.That would explain why neo and agent smith arent fighting at invisible speeds.

Basically they can dodge/deflect or stop a bullet but cant outrun it.

Fighting IS short range body movement and reaction time, and we don't see any of that when they're fighting.