Which Superman Is Going To Die In Convergence?

[Dispenser Of Truth]

Considering the other topic, it seems to be his moment with Lois before leaving Gotham.

Yeah, that was it. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, it just felt to me like a "innocently unknowing final moment together" scene.

[DochaDocha]

so I'll just continue to regard the perfect ending to Superman #714 as the proper finale for that version of the character.

And what a great finale it was. "Grounded" might've been something awful, but its ending wasn't. Furthermore, even though "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow" is a true classic, I think in some ways 714 was a better ending to the character. The only thing that's bad about 714 as an ending is that it's kind of abrupt because there was no fanfare building up to it, but if you ignore that aspect, it's actually pretty good.

[Last Son of Krypton]

I agree on Superman #714, it was a good ending for the character. What's better for Superman to inspire generations of heroes from different eras and different worlds? Not much I would say.
Maybe someone prefer another kind of legacy for the character... like having a child.

Btw, I wouldn't mind if the Fortress of Solidarity and the Superman Squad will be used again in one form or another.

[manofsteel1979]

And what a great finale it was. "Grounded" might've been something awful, but its ending wasn't. Furthermore, even though "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow" is a true classic, I think in some ways 714 was a better ending to the character. The only thing that's bad about 714 as an ending is that it's kind of abrupt because there was no fanfare building up to it, but if you ignore that aspect, it's actually pretty good.

Yeah...I'll agree to this, Chris Robertson's issues towards the end of GROUNDED was pretty good. I think #713 even had Clark have a convo about his purpose with Elliot S Maggin. Very meta, but nice. Sadly he had to stick to JMS's "Walk across America" sludge. I remember being bummed to hear he wasn't staying on SUPERMAN after the reboot, as I think he would have worked really well with Morrison's ACTION.

However, I liked this story. It's nostalgic...but what the hell, why not.

I know it seemed to largely ignore the characterization Superman took on Post 1999...but I'm glad it did. I liked (and sometimes loved) the Loeb/Kelly era and some runs after...but I'm glad the alpha male Superman, somewhat dickish attitude and corny dialog and all, was back here. Yeah..."losers" may not seem "in character"...but it's FAR better than the guy who let Batman walk all over him in INFINITE CRISIS #1.

Plus, the ending of both ACTION #904 and SUPERMAN #714 seemed to indicate he was moving beyond his insecurities, doubts, etc and was soon to return to being the guy we saw here, so again....more power to Jurgens.

[deadboy80]

i could see all or many of them being combined, the rest dead...or shoved into the multiverse.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Plus, the ending of both ACTION #904 and SUPERMAN #714 seemed to indicate he was moving beyond his insecurities, doubts, etc and was soon to return to being the guy we saw here, so again....more power to Jurgens.

As Adkal pointed out in the other thread, probably this was Clark's first night as vigilante. So, from the little we know, Clark could have spent a year walking into the dome, trying to figure out what to do without power.

[Blacksun]

Yeah...I'll agree to this, Chris Robertson's issues towards the end of GROUNDED was pretty good. I think #713 even had Clark have a convo about his purpose with Elliot S Maggin. Very meta, but nice. Sadly he had to stick to JMS's "Walk across America" sludge. I remember being bummed to hear he wasn't staying on SUPERMAN after the reboot, as I think he would have worked really well with Morrison's ACTION.

However, I liked this story. It's nostalgic...but what the hell, why not.

I know it seemed to largely ignore the characterization Superman took on Post 1999...but I'm glad it did. I liked (and sometimes loved) the Loeb/Kelly era and some runs after...but I'm glad the alpha male Superman, somewhat dickish attitude and corny dialog and all, was back here. Yeah..."losers" may not seem "in character"...but it's FAR better than the guy who let Batman walk all over him in INFINITE CRISIS #1.

Plus, the ending of both ACTION #904 and SUPERMAN #714 seemed to indicate he was moving beyond his insecurities, doubts, etc and was soon to return to being the guy we saw here, so again....more power to Jurgens.

I see no problem superman calling the bad guys losers...

I heard good things about robberson, but I can't bother reading something that doesn't matter anymore. I need some pay off

[Kuwagaton]

How could killing the superman with the most famous death story be expected to have any impact?

[Xon-Ur]

I see no problem superman calling the bad guys losers...

I heard good things about robberson, but I can't bother reading something that doesn't matter anymore. I need some pay off

Interesting perspective. Some would say that stories don't have "to count" to be valid or "matter."

I understand what you mean about continuity, but I'm at the point where I just want to read the stories that I missed from the past. At least I recognize those characters, even if I know their eventual fates.

How could killing the superman with the most famous death story be expected to have any impact?

Excellent point and one I hadn't considered.

[Kuwagaton]

I'm personally pushing for them to bring back Adventures. I find the emphasis on continuity ironic, as the character's best stories are virtually all out of continuity and few of them were ever supposed to have been in the first place. "Pay off " is reading a good story.

[manduck37]

I'm personally pushing for them to bring back Adventures. I find the emphasis on continuity ironic, as the character's best stories are virtually all out of continuity and few of them were ever supposed to have been in the first place. "Pay off " is reading a good story.

I would love for them to bring Adventures back too. Actually, Adventures had one of my favorite "end game" kind of stories for what could ultimately happen to Superman. It became a favorite of mine.

I'm hoping that this Superman and his wife Lois make it out of Convergence. With Roberson's Fortress of Solidarity and League of Supermen, I always hoped this version would get a happy send off. I really enjoyed Convergence: Superman though and that end was quite a cliff-hanger!

[manofsteel1979]

I'm personally pushing for them to bring back Adventures. I find the emphasis on continuity ironic, as the character's best stories are virtually all out of continuity and few of them were ever supposed to have been in the first place. "Pay off " is reading a good story.

Yeah...I'd love to See ADVENTURES return as a regular ongoing series. It was the perfect title IMO.

[Adekis]

Listing fates of all listed versions of Superman:


Earth-1 (Pre-Crisis): Implied to have gone into space after retiring and found the hilt of the sword from Superman Annual # 10 and become God retroactively / exposed himself to Gold Kryptonite and retired after killing Mxyzptlk / became Supermen Red and Blue / probably several others
Post-Crisis: transformed into Pre-Flashpoint Superman / became Superman Prime from DC One Million
Pre-Flashpoint: fate unknown / became Superman Prime from DC One Million
Earth-2 (Pre-Crisis): died in Infinite Crisis, had certain concepts recycled in Earth-0 Superman
All-Star: Became Superman Prime from DC One Million
Kingdome Come: Lived to see the 30th Century heroes as a decrepit but happy old man
Pre-Crisis Superboy: grew up to be Pre-Crisis Superman / died fighting the time trapper
Red Son: lived until Earth died, stuck in time loop
Earth-0: currently active
Earth-1 (current): currently active
Tangent: Imprisoned
One Million: Resurrected Krypton, lived "happily ever after" / something must have happened eventually
Injustice: Imprisoned (Rejime) / placed on watch enabling a Justice Leaguer of the week to kill him at will, excepting Batman (not Rejime)

I'm not sure who to vote for, frankly. Most of them are dead already. Other notable Supermen include the DCAU Superman, Smallville's Superman, and various Elseworld Supermen less popular KC and RS.

[Xon-Ur]

Yeah...I'll agree to this, Chris Robertson's issues towards the end of GROUNDED was pretty good. I think #713 even had Clark have a convo about his purpose with Elliot S Maggin. Very meta, but nice. Sadly he had to stick to JMS's "Walk across America" sludge. I remember being bummed to hear he wasn't staying on SUPERMAN after the reboot, as I think he would have worked really well with Morrison's ACTION.

However, I liked this story. It's nostalgic...but what the hell, why not.

I know it seemed to largely ignore the characterization Superman took on Post 1999...but I'm glad it did. I liked (and sometimes loved) the Loeb/Kelly era and some runs after...but I'm glad the alpha male Superman, somewhat dickish attitude and corny dialog and all, was back here. Yeah..."losers" may not seem "in character"...but it's FAR better than the guy who let Batman walk all over him in INFINITE CRISIS #1.

Plus, the ending of both ACTION #904 and SUPERMAN #714 seemed to indicate he was moving beyond his insecurities, doubts, etc and was soon to return to being the guy we saw here, so again....more power to Jurgens.

Completely agree with you on all points, especially Infinite Crisis. There was so much potential in that story and yet, so much went terribly wrong. Superboy Prime becomes an insulting commentary on segments of fandom instead of being allowed to be a real character. Kal-L is tortured emotionally and then dies a horrible death.

Right at the beginning, we of course have the moment to which you refer. The Batman being characterized as an *******, Superman being made lesser as a character so as to create yet another *******/"badass" moment for a character that had, by that point, long ago lost his humanity and warmth.

Clark should have gotten in Bruce's face after his comment and pointed out that Bruce no longer just inspires fear in his enemies, but also his friends and colleagues. Thankfully, Paul Dini brought us the Batman of B:TAS in his 'TEC run, which remains one of my all-time favorite Batman runs.

It seems DC is still determined to put Superman second. Outside of Pak and Morrison, DC seems to think that making Superman cool means making him more of the ******* Batman was pre-Flashpoint.

[manofsteel1979]

Completely agree with you on all points, especially Infinite Crisis. There was so much potential in that story and yet, so much went terribly wrong. Superboy Prime becomes an insulting commentary on segments of fandom instead of being allowed to be a real character. Kal-L is tortured emotionally and then dies a horrible death.

Right at the beginning, we of course have the moment to which you refer. The Batman being characterized as an *******, Superman being made lesser as a character so as to create yet another *******/"badass" moment for a character that had, by that point, long ago lost his humanity and warmth.

Clark should have gotten in Bruce's face after his comment and pointed out that Bruce no longer just inspires fear in his enemies, but also his friends and colleagues. Thankfully, Paul Dini brought us the Batman of B:TAS in his 'TEC run, which remains one of my all-time favorite Batman runs.

It seems DC is still determined to put Superman second. Outside of Pak and Morrison, DC seems to think that making Superman cool means making him more of the ******* Batman was pre-Flashpoint.

I agree on most everything you wrote there aside from this. Where has New 52 Superman become a cold, paranoid hypocrite who went so far as to spy on all of his friends via Brother Eye? Am I missing something?