Legacy characters: Where's the outrage for Scott Lang?

[JohnLynch]

So we've had certain posters derail most threads about certain characters about how much they dislike characters who assume the name of a different character (e.g. Kamala Khan taking the name of Ms. Marvel). So here's a question for those people who claim to hate all of these characters: Ant-Man is a current ongoing comic with a legacy character in the starring role. A legacy character is someone who assumed the Ant-Man identity after that identity had been created by a pre-existing character. Can you please link to posts you've made in the past as to how much you dislike the character of Scott Lang and how it's a disgrace that Marvel continues to try to push him as a character? I don't want to hear how much you hate the character now, I want a post that is dated before this thread was created where you expressed such an opinion. And if you can't, why the heck not?

You go into thread after thread to complain about any female character who assumes a pre-existing identity, or anytime a person of colour does so. So where's your outrage for Scott Lang? And why haven't you expressed it before now? Why does he get a free pass? He's currently got his own ongoing and is going to be starring in a movie, with the REAL Ant-Man relegated to a support role (and who knows if he'll be around for Ant-Man 2 or if they'll kill him off). Where's your outrage for this high profile Scott Lang and him hijacking the current Ant-Man ongoing?

[Kieran_Frost]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh SNAP!!!!! That post is serving up some truth bomb realness!!! And Scott Lang is "stealing" the lead role in the upcoming film too.

[Username taken]

So we've had certain posters derail most threads about certain characters about how much they dislike characters who assume the name of a different character (e.g. Kamala Khan taking the name of Ms. Marvel). So here's a question for those people: Ant-Man is a current ongoing comic with a legacy character in the starring role. A legacy character is someone who assumed the Ant-Man identity after that identity had been created by a pre-existing character. Can you please link to posts you've made in the past as to how much you dislike the character of Scott Lang and how it's a disgrace that Marvel continues to try to push him as a character? I don't want to hear how much you hate the character now, I want a post that is dated before this thread was created where you expressed such an opinion. And if you can't, why the heck not?

You go into thread after thread to complain about any female character who assumes a pre-existing identity, or anytime a person of colour does so. So where's your outrage for Scott Lang? And why haven't you expressed it before now? Why does he get a free pass? He's currently got his own ongoing and is going to be starring in a movie, with the REAL Ant-Man relegated to a support role (and who knows if he'll be around for Ant-Man 2 or if they'll kill him off). Where's your outrage for this high profile Scott Lang and him hijacking the current Ant-Man ongoing?

Oh man....you got them in the feels.

[yet another]

Maybe because not too many care about or even know Ant-Man?

Hank Pym after all is mostly famous for one thing and that has not been "stolen" yet.

Ok, he did invent Ultron too of course and that will apparently be given to Tony Stark. Has there been any protests on this front?

[Overhazard]

Well, I think in the ant man appreciation thread, there was some hate for scott. Scott probably got more hate around the time he debuted, like Ben Reilly did after he replaced Peter Parker. Though a lot of that hate also had to do with Clone Saga being a huge mess.

That, and if they're making an an man movie, it has to be Scott. If it was hank, the media would find out about the slap, and that would be a PR nightmare for marvel. So many angry articles, tweets, and blog posts.

[Fokken]

Its just that Ant Man is so small, that his fanbase's outrage is equally small and therefor goes unnoticed.


edit: I'm into Lang.

[JohnLynch]

Well, I think in the ant man appreciation thread, there was some hate for scott. Scott probably got more hate around the time he debuted, like Ben Reilly did after he replaced Peter Parker. Though a lot of that hate also had to do with Clone Saga being a huge mess.

Great. Are these the same people currently poo-pooing on the recent female and non-white "legacy" characters? If not, where's their hate for Scott Lang? These people don't say "I like character XXX and therefore don't want someone taking his identity" they say "Legacy characters are awful! Why can't new characters get their own name! Bring back YYYY! Stop shoving legacy characters down our throat!" If they feel so strongly on this issue as they claim, they should likewise finding it disgusting that Scott Lang currently has an ongoing.

Also if these people are going to claim "it's old news. I've run out of hate" then I must ask how long before something gets classified as old news. 1 year? 2years? 3 years? End of their first ongoing under the "legacy" identity?

[LASERlips]

You make some great points, and I applaud your effort and sensibility.

However, these certain people are not going to see this as a defeat. They will spin it, play victim, and then be on their merry way.

Also, they sort of have a legitimate out: CBR reboot happened after Paul Rudd was announced as Scott Lang. Or they can say they don't care about Ant-Man. Or they didn't know because 1979.

It was a great move, but sadly not a checkmate. Even with a checkmate, these folks will flip the board, accuse you of mistreatment, and then continue to bounce around the park.

Edit: There is one I know won't claim old news because he's been at it since Death of Spider-Man. Like, I specifically remember him.

[Overhazard]

Great. Are these the same people currently poo-pooing on the recent female and non-white "legacy" characters? If not, where's their hate for Scott Lang? These people don't say "I like character XXX and therefore don't want someone taking his identity" they say "Legacy characters are awful! Why can't new characters get their own name! Bring back YYYY! Stop shoving legacy characters down our throat!" If they feel so strongly on this issue as they claim, they should likewise finding it disgusting that Scott Lang currently has an ongoing.

Also if these people are going to claim "it's old news. I've run out of hate" then I must ask how long before something gets classified as old news. 1 year? 2years? 3 years? End of their first ongoing under the "legacy" identity?

I wouldn't know I dont plan on reading ANAD Avengers either. Maybe they are.

[JohnLynch]

You make some great points, and I applaud your effort and sensibility.

However, these certain people are not going to see this as a defeat.

I'm not trying to "win the internets" as it were. If someone is honest about how they feel and why they feel that way, they'll typically be happy to discuss it with others. Their arguments will boil down to preference rather than some objective model that can be applied in all circumstances. I'm hopeful at least some of these people will come into this thread to have an honest discussion on the issue.

They will spin it, play victim, and then be on their merry way.

This isn't meant to make those who are being dishonest for their dislike for certain characters cry out defeat. Anyone who has a valid reason for not hating on Scott Lang and disliking all of the female and non-white legacy characters now has a forum to put to bed the claim they're racist or misogynistic once and for all. Those who think their views aren't valid or they haven't been honest about their reasoning behind disliking certain characters will most likely choose not to continue the discussion in a reasonable manner and will of course come here to yell and scream or simply refuse to participate.

CBR reboot happened after Paul Rudd was announced as Scott Lang.

I'm not asking for their outrage on the movie decision. I'm asking for their outrage about the latest Ant-Man ongoing featuring one of those despicable legacy characters. The CBR Reboot happened in April 2014, the latest volume of Ant-Man began in January 2015. Their outrage should be well documented given how much they dislike these legacy characters.

Or they can say they don't care about Ant-Man. Or they didn't know because 1979.

That would certainly be legitimate. Not wanting Carol Danvers to assume the Captain Marvel identity because they want one of the other Captain Marvels to come back is a perfectly good reason. But that's not the argument they use. They try to claim ANY legacy character is bad. As such they should have a natural dislike for Scott Lang. And of course from DC's corner of the market, Jason Todd when he was Robin.

Even with a checkmate, these folks will flip the board, accuse you of mistreatment, and then continue to bounce around the park.

I invite anyone who can feels I've mistreated them to actually quote the post where I did for all to see how horrible a person I am. Thus far no-one has chosen to do this.

[vitruvian]

So we've had certain posters derail most threads about certain characters about how much they dislike characters who assume the name of a different character (e.g. Kamala Khan taking the name of Ms. Marvel). So here's a question for those people: Ant-Man is a current ongoing comic with a legacy character in the starring role. A legacy character is someone who assumed the Ant-Man identity after that identity had been created by a pre-existing character. Can you please link to posts you've made in the past as to how much you dislike the character of Scott Lang and how it's a disgrace that Marvel continues to try to push him as a character? I don't want to hear how much you hate the character now, I want a post that is dated before this thread was created where you expressed such an opinion. And if you can't, why the heck not?

You go into thread after thread to complain about any female character who assumes a pre-existing identity, or anytime a person of colour does so. So where's your outrage for Scott Lang? And why haven't you expressed it before now? Why does he get a free pass? He's currently got his own ongoing and is going to be starring in a movie, with the REAL Ant-Man relegated to a support role (and who knows if he'll be around for Ant-Man 2 or if they'll kill him off). Where's your outrage for this high profile Scott Lang and him hijacking the current Ant-Man ongoing?

I've always liked both, but I have actually always seen plenty of disdain for Scott Lang from Hank Pym fans, as well as the reverse. It was particularly prominent around the time they first announced that the Ant-Man movie would be Scott Lang rather than Hank Pym. So there's definitely some hate for this legacy character, but I will agree with you that it tends to be milder in tone than what the female or racially diverse legacy characters get, and that that is telling.

[LASERlips]

I'm not trying to "win the internets" as it were. If someone is honest about how they feel and why they feel that way, they'll typically be happy to discuss it with others. Their arguments will boil down to preference rather than some objective model that can be applied in all circumstances. I'm hopeful at least some of these people will come into this thread to have an honest discussion on the issue.

This isn't meant to make those who are being dishonest for their dislike for certain characters cry out defeat. Anyone who has a valid reason for not hating on Scott Lang and disliking all of the female and non-white legacy characters now has a forum to put to bed the claim they're racist or misogynistic once and for all. Those who think their views aren't valid or they haven't been honest about their reasoning behind disliking certain characters will most likely choose not to continue the discussion in a reasonable manner and will of course come here to yell and scream or simply refuse to participate.



I invite anyone who can feels I've mistreated them to actually quote the post where I did for all to see how horrible a person I am. Thus far no-one has chosen to do this.

What I'm trying to say is that all this requires these people to 'play ball'. They will not.

You will be ignored. Or, they will come in, speak some nonsense, and ignore or handwave any argument against their views.

These folks are not interested in solid facts, real evidence, or honest discussion. They spin and disguise their same old views again and again, trying to lure people into agreeing with them. Any demonstrated interest in facts and evidence is an illusion to lure others to their side. They 'poo-poo' anyone who pokes holes in their statements, if they don't ignore them entirely.

You saw that other thread. Do you actually think a totally honest discussion is possible?

[Fokken]

Do you actually think a totally honest discussion is possible?

[Ceebiro]

I love that Scott literally stole the identity of Ant-Man.

[Cloudman]

1. Fewer people read Antman than read Thor.
2. Fewer people care about Antman than care about Thor.
3. Some Antman fans did have a problem with Scott Lang.
4. Antman's book hasn't been hindered by the same overt agenda-pushing that Thor has, e.g. that page where a villain surrenders to Thor because she's a woman. Same applies to Ms. Marvel, which has become a pretty popular book without insulting a large part of the comic readership.

You can pretend every person who dislikes the current trend of legacy characters is a racist, sexist, hateful bigot or you can acknowledge that some readers are honestly rubbed up the wrong way by it. Personally, the only book I have a problem with is Thor, and I'm a little sick of seeing people treat criticism of that toilet-rag of a book as misogyny.