Legacy characters: Where's the outrage for Scott Lang?

[Vegeta]

It's not like he beat her to death or did it again.

Maybe not in this reality, but he was abusive towards her in the Ultimate universe, and smacked her around and bit her head off in the Zombie universe. So Pym's abusive nature must be an ingrained part of his personality if it keeps popping up in alternate realities.

Because it ended up being the most memorable thing Hank Pym ever did.

Scott will never be the "true" Ant-Man until he follows in Hank's footsteps. Then again, did they ever explain why he and Peggy divorced? Maybe he had the makings of an Ant-Man all along!

[Adjudicator]

I have no problem with people not liking character X. When they say "I don't like characters like character X for reasons Y and Z" and then I notice reasons Y and Z don't really hold up under closer scrutiny, I'll say something.

What you are saying here and your first post don't mesh well in intent. If your problem is with the what two or three people who just don't like legacy characters for no reason go IM them instead of starting a whole thread.

I am assume it is your scrunity that their opinion needs to hold up to. That is poor logic because it basically your opinion against theirs with no facts to be seen.

[vitruvian]

Because it ended up being the most memorable thing Hank Pym ever did.

Not to everybody. Founding the Avengers stands out more in my mind, as does inventing Ultron, giving the Wasp her powers, beating Loki again, and so on.

But it does get brought up with enough regularity that I sometimes wish that this was what Sue and Logan had broken time to erase...

[nnelg]

just because I'm a woman does not mean I have to love fake thor i think it’s terribly executed, terribly written, and terribly insulting. It’s pandering in the absolute worst way. she is a joke..a insult to us feminists.
I identify as a feminist. This fake feminism bull needs to stop. someone needed to say it. Not sorry one bit.She doesn’t have a name of her own (we’re still calling her ‘Female Thor’ six issues in) and Thor quite literally gave away his name to her. He’s currently going by ‘Odinson’ only. She is simply a placeholder and a plot device, not an actual character.

Where are the complaints to her comments? I guess the complaints are only ok if they come from a woman.

[Trident]

Threads like this one and the ones on the opposite end really make we wish there was a way to please everybody. I know that will never happen but it is a true shame. Seems like so much avoidable and unnecessary tension.

[mugiwara]

What were the reactions when Monica replaced Mar-Vell as Captain Marvel and when James Rhodes replaced Tony Stark as Iron Man?

[JohnLynch]

First, Hank Pym literally had three other identities to choose from--Giant-Man, Goliath and Yellowjacket

So does Carol Danvers. It doesn't stop the animosity towards Kamala Khan from some people because "legacy characters are bad".

Secondly, we can all agree in hindsight that Hank Pym really isn't that likable a character.

If people want to say "I don't like legacy characters unless I didn't like the original character" then they're welcome to. That isn't the argument being thrown about by certain segments of the CBR forum though.

[Gordonstar]

Maybe not in this reality, but he was abusive towards her in the Ultimate universe, and smacked her around and bit her head off in the Zombie universe. So Pym's abusive nature must be an ingrained part of his personality if it keeps popping up in alternate realities.



Scott will never be the "true" Ant-Man until he follows in Hank's footsteps. Then again, did they ever explain why he and Peggy divorced? Maybe he had the makings of an Ant-Man all along!

Not really, that's just the writers doing that.

[Derek Metaltron]

I find Hank and Eric far more interesting than Scott, and that's what counts most.

[DebkoX]

....This thread makes a very fair point.

[JohnLynch]

What you are saying here and your first post don't mesh well in intent. If your problem is with the what two or three people who just don't like legacy characters for no reason go IM them instead of starting a whole thread.

1. People who post on a public forum can have their posts commented on in public. At least some people have found the observation made insightful. You can of course opt to not read the thread if you see no value in it.
2. While I can think of 2 people off the top of my head, there are quite possibly more. This is an open invitation for anyone to post on the issue.
3. If the mods feel this thread is inappropriate they have the power to lock it.

I am assume it is your scrunity that their opinion needs to hold up to. That is poor logic because it basically your opinion against theirs with no facts to be seen.

Their opinion doesn't need to hold up to my scrutiny. I have, however, thought about the argument being used and have decided to query it further. Anyone is free to point out where I'm wrong and the issue can be discussed.

[Agent Z]

Maybe not in this reality, but he was abusive towards her in the Ultimate universe, and smacked her around and bit her head off in the Zombie universe. So Pym's abusive nature must be an ingrained part of his personality if it keeps popping up in alternate realities.



Scott will never be the "true" Ant-Man until he follows in Hank's footsteps. Then again, did they ever explain why he and Peggy divorced? Maybe he had the makings of an Ant-Man all along!

The Ultimate Universe is where almost everyone has their negative traits dialed up to eleven or have flaws they didn't have in the mainstream continuity. Pym being infinitely more loathsome in that continuity isn't surprising. Quite frankly the fault is on Marvel for shamelessly milking that argument and refusing to let him move on from it.

[LifeIsILL]

1. Fewer people read Antman than read Thor.

Ant-Man doesn't even have a solo-title that goes beyond 12 issues.....of course no one is gonna read about him.

[Iron Maiden]

What you are saying here and your first post don't mesh well in intent. If your problem is with the what two or three people who just don't like legacy characters for no reason go IM them instead of starting a whole thread.

I am assume it is your scrunity that their opinion needs to hold up to. That is poor logic because it basically your opinion against theirs with no facts to be seen.

I agree with this. I don't see the reason for a whole thread.

As for myself, I also agree that the OP picked a pretty safe example since Pym has been pretty much off the radar quite a bit since the end of Slott's run on Mighty Avengers. The part that annoys me a bit is how Scott Lange will be in the MCU with a more prominent role than Hank Pym. I'm not that much of a Pym fan but I prefer when the movies try to track the comics as much as possible. He should be the inventor of Ultron, not Tony IMO (unless they changed that?) Like him or not, Ant Man was a founding member and one of the earliest Marvel heroes from the Silver Age. Scott Lang is kind of *blah* to me and even Kristoff used to work him over like a red headed step child when they were all living at Four Freedoms Plaza.


I am also a female fan and have to wonder why Thor is now a female. She should have a different Norse name. Sif got to take over JIM for a while so why not make her worthy instead and keep her name just like Beta Ray Bill did (btw, I must be one of the few that never really liked old horse-face taking over Thor )
I really think that there have been very few examples where I've liked it where someone takes over another character's spot. There was the way subplot back in the 1980s and 1990s of the boy who would be Doom, Kristoff Venard. That went on for way too long. If a character dies then that works for me if someone wants to bring back a new version at some point, like what was done with Swordsman recently. I think he's dead again though. But even then, I don't want a writer just to kill off say Hank Pym because they are a Scott Lang fan.

[Derek Metaltron]

The Ultimate Universe is where almost everyone has their negative traits dialed up to eleven or have flaws they didn't have in the mainstream continuity. Pym being infinitely more loathsome in that continuity isn't surprising. Quite frankly the fault is on Marvel for shamelessly milking that argument and refusing to let him move on from it.

This, it's the writers who decide if to let Hank and Jan move on from it or not, and it's because they consider it still a usable character element that it has become so engrained in Hank's story, same as Ultron. Even the EMH show knew how to write Hank and Jan's relationship and their difficulties without forcing the thing in there. And I'm sure the movie with older Hank won't either,