Loki Appreciation 2018

[Raye]

I think we have plenty to go on. If Kid Loki is involved, then it's part of the ongoing story that started in JIM. Everything in between is evidence for where it could go.

There are a bunch of hints in Asgardians, like the lies and deception bits and Kid's voice being just a little sinister. And then there's that caption that acknowledges that Kid should not exist. Put those together and it's really clear that this is meant to be part of the larger Kid Loki-Loki story.

Based on that, there are many interesting ways it could go. They're speculation, but they're not unfounded speculation. They're hypotheses. It's not like any of this is coming out of nowhere.

For example, Kid is back. He should not be back, based on the previous story. In fact, it should not be possible for him to be back, as he seemed to have been overwritten and bringing him back would be like recovering files from a hard drive that was first fragmented and then erased. So we know something is up.

We also know that Kid is in the Destroyer. Last time we saw it, your body did not go inside; you piloted it with your spirit/soul. So either the rules of the Destroyer have changed or Kid isn't strictly physical. That's not a guess, that's a pretty much definite either/or, based on the rules of the fictional world. Fictional worlds always have rules and good stories either follow them or break them intentionally. Only bad stories treat the internal logic of the fictional universe without care.

If Kid is not bodily within the Destroyer, that would make it likely that something to do with Ikol/Loki taking his body caused it (or that he's from the Soul Stone) and that a body is his goal. Hence the speculation above. It's not guesses. It's based on the text.

We know that Thor felt very strongly for Kid. So strongly that he nearly killed Loki. He loved that he finally had the brother he always wanted and thought of him as innocent. We know Thor distrusts Loki and is apt to jump to the conclusion that anything suspicious is Loki's doing. Thor isn't going to lock Kid up. For one, when was the last time Thor locked anyone up? For two, we know from previous stories that it's likely that Thor will have one of or a combination of two reactions:

1. He immediately accepts Kid as real and true and still the Kid that he loved from the start. If Kid is not the original Kid in original form -- and as noted above, there's ample evidence that he's either something else or somehow changed -- then this would give good story possibilities for Kid to betray or take advantage of Thor. This would be a way to get Thor and Loki to finally truly reconcile if it makes Thor realize that Loki is more Kid than this new Kid is. Or Thor might think that this is another of Loki's schemes and that Loki is being cruel by corrupting the "innocent" Kid.

2. Thor rejects Kid, knowing that it's impossible or near-impossible that Kid could come back. Most likely, he attacks Loki for this, as even if Thor is sure Kid is a trick or imposter, he'll be unable to actually attack Kid, so he'll hit that default again and accuse Loki. He's likely to think of this as a particularly cruel trick, since Loki knows exactly how Thor felt about Kid.

Now, because of events at the God Quarry and Infinity Stone shenanigans, and the fact that we've been told that AotG comes out of Infinity Wars, combined with SIX YEARS of this story, it seems likely that Loki has something to do with Kid being back. We know that killing/erasing Kid was Loki's big, unforgivable sin, and it's been present in every single story told since it happened, though sometimes in subtle ways. For an example of the subtle bit for that, there is no real story reason for Thori the Hel-Dog to be around -- except to make it clear that this is an extension of the story the gave us both Thori and the unforgivable sin. Thor may have softened toward Loki a little bit, but Thori is there to remind the readers of what happened before without necessarily having to have Thor and Loki stop all the big bombastic netherworld action and talk about it.

This makes it likely that either Loki consciously chose to bring Kid back to attempt to correct the murder he committed or that he happened upon Kid and decided to try to make things right by bringing him "home," maybe giving him the best body he could find as a stopgap -- the Destroyer. Now, whether Kid being off is due to Loki's actions or due to some Pet Sematary-like rule in this case is completely up in the air, since both would make sense with what has already been set up, and each has different story possibilities.

TL;DR: It's true that we don't know what story Bunn is telling just yet, but we know he's placing it as a continuation of the story that started in JIM and therefore can make educated speculation on what the most likely courses might be.

Yeah, I think the caption that acknowledges Kid Loki should not exist is the biggest thing to tip us off, really. The other things, they can be chalked up to Angela being overly suspicious, or Bunn just writing him out of character, (on purpose or not is irrelevant) or only things people who had read JiM and most that followed would pick up on. But that caption, that was lampshade hanging. That was him blatantly pointing out to everyone, even people who had not read JiM at all, that something isn't right here with Kid Loki in particular, and it's intentional. He knows damn well Kid Loki should not be able to exist, and he's letting us know he knows, so we'll be willing to go along with him on this to see what the explanation is. We may not know the specifics, we may be off base with our speculation, it's always possible to be wrong with speculation, but that caption alone lets us know SOMETHING is up, and it's fairly safe to assume that it builds on past events in some way.

i also agree that I don't think Thor would lock Kid Loki away... I mean, Bunn, or Aaron, can have Thor react in a number of different ways, it's hardly a foregone conclusion that he'd act any one way. They can have him support his quest and be totally accepting that Kid Loki is truly reborn, or he could stand in his way for one reason or another. But locking Kid Loki away seems off for him. that would be cruel....and Thor is not cruel.

As for Angela, I did not say Angela thought she could trust this Loki. The captions in the issue suggested anything but, she seems deeply suspicious of him. I think she is desperate. Sera has been missing for quite some time now, (she went missing in Guardians of the Galaxy months an months ago in a plot point that was never followed up on) and I think she will take any opportunity to find her that she can, even if it is from a source she doesn't trust. It's likely that "Kid Loki" knows she would do anything for Sera, he seems to know a lot more than he should, if he went after Throg and Thunderstrike etc. so him knowing about Sera as well kinda fits with that, and is using that against her. But from her perspective, it's better to take a chance that may not pan out than to just do nothing.

[Fanto.mx]

Huh. https://variety.com/2018/film/news/l...ce-1202947551/

Loki show. With Tom Hiddleston.

[Raye]

So, my first thought when i saw that was JIM, though the bit about Hiddleston starring could throw a wrench in that. but the article seems to be fairly speculative, and i guess he could just be providing the voice for Ikol. It's just that they have the perfect setup for a JIM type story right now, and it would kind of be a shame if they didn't take it. But either way, cool news!

So I read Avengers and Thor, he appeared in both, but not in very large parts.

Avengers, it kind of hammered home some more that he did all this to get the team together, so that was good, and some hints about why it had to be THIS team. I was a bit disappointed he got kidnapped by Celestials, though. I was just kind of hoping Black Panther or Cap, maybe even Strange, could see what he was really doing there, even if Thor can't because of all their baggage. But his dialogue did present some interesting possibilities. It seems like he is preparing them for something Hulk related. his dialogue, "... from beyond the raw void between dimensions. Eyes of night and nuclear decay and all the colors of rage." is most likely a reference to Hulk, specifically to what Ewing is doing over in Immortal Hulk, where it is setting up "the green door" and setting up Hulking out as more of a possession from "across the void" by "the one below all", than a purely physical change caused by radiation. And then Carol got involved this week, with hunting down Bruce, and she brought the Avengers along. Yeah, i think we're looking at a likely Immortal Hulk/Avengers crossover, probably one much larger than a guest appearance in Immortal Hulk if Loki's dialogue is anything to go by. If Loki joins the team when the Celestials presumably bring him back, that could mean Ewing would be writing him again for the duration of the crossover, as well. The team in hulk right now is Loki free, but it may be that they need to come back for a round 2. But this does fit with what was going on with Jen. It's entirely possible Loki decided it needed to be this team, with these members, on order to get the right people to examine Jen to figure out what's going on, and to be able to go toe to toe with a bunch of pissed off Hulks.

I still want to know where Loki is getting all this knowledge he keeps using to warn people about the future, though.

Thor, it looks like i was probably right on the money with my speculation about the universe needing to come to an end, and it appears Wolverine, Loki and Doom are all in agreement on that front, but not Thor or his granddaughters. Loki still has not gotten involved with the fight over Earth yet, though, we just saw how he got the Necrosword from Ego. (basically, talked hm into destroying himself)

Also, solicits hit today, and Loki is not mentioned anywhere. Though I presume he's still involved in one or more of the following in some capacity: Avengers, Thor, Infinity Wars, Asgardians of the Galaxy, maaaaybe Squirrel Girl (he was on the cover for the funeral issue, and this seems to be a continuation of that story, so he may still be around as one of the 'friends' mentioned)

[Riimi]

See, in Avengers, I felt like it was heading in the direction of solidifying that he got the team together on purpose, and then he went on what seemed another villainous rant. What with the "every tongue in Midgard will gloriously sing their praises." Granted, it could just be part of his larger warning, but it seemed like he was still harping on the "infection" thing. Granted, he did say that they were being watched, right now. To boost the fact that it's part of the warning, the future solicits do seem to indicate that people turn against the Avengers, so he could just mean that. Raising the question (again) of how he knows all the stuff, but we can table that, for now.

I think there's a distant possibility that he knew the Avengers could cure the Celestials, which is the other part of the reason he brought them to Earth. After all, the information he gave cap directly lead them to that conclusion. I think the fact that the Celestials took him with makes it more likely, since that means they'll probably show up again. And now, the Avengers have gained them as allies.

About Kid, since I haven't weighed in...I was actually taking it at face value. Sure, he could be villainous, but making Loki look like a villain when he might not be is all the rage, these days. And he does seem to be concerned with saving the universe. Or, I'm completely wrong, lol. At any rate, I agree that it's a result of Infinity Wars. After all, we've speculated that Loki ends up with the soul gem.

Speaking of infinity wars, I had the crazy idea that he stole the infinity gems from another universe during his trip to the God Quarry. How else is he supposed to de-warp people to gather his team? And it puts power against power, instead of one side having the infinity gems and the other not, which is kind of game over.

[Rosebunse]

So the remaining Celestials taking Loki was a bit unexpected, but it makes sense. We know that Celestials have taken other characters, most notably Apocalypse, who used their tech for himself. He had to pay the piper eventually. I'm not sure if this was really a part of Loki's plan. The beam looked like it hurt and if Apocalypse can't free himself from the Celestials, seems like Loki would have a pretty hard time as well.

However, we know that Loki is in Infinity War and will be in Thor again at some point, so I'm not sure of the timeline here or how he will escape.

The issue with kidLoki is that there are a million ways to go. It could be kidLoki because, yes, we have seen kidLoki act real sinister before. It could not be kidLoki because that's a thing.

I'm not sure how I feel about the Loki show. I mean, of the actor wants off, you can literally just get another one and go on.

Interesting idea about the God Quarry. It would offer us a way out that actually makes sense.

[rpmaluki]

Re: the show, I thought TH was sort of tired of the character, not in a negative way but more like this is the longest he's ever been attached to a character and he's the type of actor that prefers fresh/low key (pun definitely unintended) roles. I could be wrong.

[Raye]

Yeah, i got the impression he felt he was done with the role. But the article says he is involved, so i dunno. They could be wrong, or he could be involved in a relatively minor way (such as the voice of Ikol) but either way he can't really play the part for that much longer, same with Hemsworth, or they are going to break the illusion they are immortal, they're pushing that illusion as is.

I think that speech was part of his warning, rather than anything villainous. that whole thing came off as a whole lot of venting to me, overall, though. I think he was on the one hand glad that it worked, but mad that he had to play the villain card to do it.

I hope that sometime everything he's done the past few years, his true motivations, are revealed to those around him. Like, think of Snape. Part of what made him so interesting in the end is that he was playing double agent the whole time, but you, and most of the characters, didn't know until close to the end, and when his true motivations and loyalties were revealed, you had to re-examine how you thought about him and his actions throughout the story. Loki is in a similar situation in that he is keeping his true motivations obscured from the other characters, but a bit different since the readers know (at least, the ones who have been paying close attention to him since JIM) know, or at least strongly suspect, that he's pulling a Snape here. But part of what made it work in Harry Potter was the reveal, and I think Loki needs that. (though, hopefully without accompanying death)

i am not sure Loki will have to escape the Celestials. It's entirely possible they fully intend to return him after they.... do whatever with him. Whatever happens, it can't last very long, because he's involved in too much around the MU, so it's going to be a few issues at most, and likely won't have too much lasting impact.

I get that Kid Loki could put on the evil act when he needed to, but he had a REASON the few times he did it, it was never just 'cus, so if he's putting on an evil act now, i think there needs to be a damn good reason for it. I am just not seeing a reason for him to do that here, I think he would achieve far more playing up his innocence as much as possible in order to get Angela and the others to trust him. If they turn against him because they think he's an evil untrustworthy little ****, he loses everything.

Anyway, I was thinking more about the Hulk thing. And remember this?


I mean, I'm just saying... The Hulks Loki created for Agger could come back into play, here. This upcoming Hulk.... thing... could be WHY Loki created them. Especially since we just saw that Roxxon is the catalyst for the Atlantean uprising. Like, a bunch of Atlanteans attack Roxxon, so does Agger pull out his viking hulks to fight them off? Does Loki take control of them again now? And it's especially weird having another look at that, since a proto-Sasquatch/Tanaraq is on there as well, and who is guest starring in the Immortal Hulk right now? freaking Sasquatch. Just how long have Aaron and Ewing been planning this?

That cave panting does seem to make Namor more likely as a potential new teammate, though. I keep waffling on that. but, on the other hand, they do still need an 'Agamotto' so...

[rpmaluki]

Another thing, they said something like all the guys that got solo movies (whose contracts are up) won't be appearing on the shows, question: how do you do a Loki show without his brother, if Hemsworth is not going to appear? They've already killed 97% of the Asgardian supporting cast. I'd love a Loki focused story, don't get me wrong but they would have to sell me on the concept and so far I'm not biting (which is a first). I want so much more than what we got in the movies. Ragnarok still rubs me the wrong way despite it being more popular of the trilogy.

Can't we get a Loki solo book please, because I'm not really a fan of this putting together scraps across three books to try and make sense what's going with my favourite Marvel character. Comics are too expensive for me as it is already and sadly I refuse to buys three books for about 10% of content between them, ugh!

[Fanto.mx]

Quick catch-up for those that don't read Immortal Hulk (but you should! It's fantastic, even if you don't usually care much for the character). Basically, the Hulk is now re-attached to nighttime and it has been revealed that, as the title implies, Bruce Banner and the Hulk are immortal. However, they're immortal not in that they can't die, but in that they can't stay dead. Bruce has already died a few times in these first six issues and each time, the Hulk has emerged and pulled him back to life. Much as been made about "the green door," which is a sort of portal between the living and dead that is attached to gamma-powered characters. Combined, these things have been shown to create a situation where all gamma people are effectively immortal (Sasquatch died and came back in issue 5) and, more importantly, that there's an extradimensional/super-reality power source out there that they're drawing from.

It feels a lot like the early days of Alan Moore's Swamp Thing in that these previously science-based (but nonsense) powers are being recast as something that borders on magic as the powers and transformation are due to something that is a primal aspect of the universe. Or, as Loki put it in this week's Avengers, "from the raw void." It feels like Ewing is transforming the Hulk into, effectively, an elemental. Except his element is rage.

So why in the world am I talking Hulk in the Loki thread? Because I believe there's a sneaky crossover coming that we didn't really expect. Not just an appearance of one team/character in another's book, but an actual story crossover, though it does not yet feel like it will be an event. At the least, there's really good evidence that what's going on in Avengers has something to do with what's going on in Immortal Hulk.

First, evidence that this is becoming magical.

Second, you see Hulk in Bruce's mirror, which has been a theme across the whole of the series (mirrors/doors) but when we flip into the mirror space where Hulk is, we see that his mirror is seemingly Bruce's dad, which they absorbed from Sasquatch in the previous issue.

However, that ain't Bruce's dad. It's...something else.

And when the Avengers make their appearance near the end of the book, we see that Jen's issues in Avengers are connected. In fact, I think this implies that their connection runs further than blood transfusions and transformations into a sort of dark informational connection. Killing the Hulk and Jen dying/almost dying (with the new immortality aspect, she may have died) seem to have created/amplified a connection between either the two Hulks or between all gamma people. I'm guessing that it's going in the direction that the double death shocked the system somehow.

But what brings this all back to this thread is this:


Just look at what Shaman says about that ...thing... in the Hulk's mirror as compared to what Loki forewarns the Avengers about. As Raye pointed out above, what Loki says is clearly about the Hulk(s) and when you combine it with what Shaman says, you find that that primal ...whatever... is a looming threat.

And the solicit for Immortal Hulk #10 is:
* Gamma Flight was too late. Shadow Base is infiltrated. Crusher Creel is damned. And the One Below All walks upon Earth.
* Now, in the place he was born, the Immortal Hulk is the last thing standing between the world of the living...
* ...and the GREEN DOOR.

Shadow Base is a base of operations for what amounts to a Hulk Special Task Force. Crusher Creel got his powers from ... Loki. And it sure looks like there are multiple somethings trying to get through the green door.

The One Below All is coming. It probably has backup.

And Loki knows it.

[Raye]

good summary! Definitely underscores the connections. Though it feels like we have some puzzle pieces, but not enough to put it all together.

I also like that the Hulk issue most of this comes from marks a reunion of Al Ewing and Lee Garbett. they're a good team.

Also, good point about Creel getting his powers from Loki. I wonder if that will come into play, and how. Worth noting that over in Weapon H, another Hulk related book, both Dario Agger and Titania are appearing. Related? I dunno, it's still the Weirdworld story, but maybe.

I definitely want to know how Loki is getting all this information he keeps leaving cryptic clues about, though. I know we've speculated it came from the time King Loki stuffed his memories into Loki's head, but I'd like to have it confirmed one way or another. though, i guess if Shaman can magic up some answers about this, so can Loki.

[calyx]

Slightly overwhelmed comics casual here, here mostly for Loki but also any Asgardian/Ten worlds content really.

I’ve read Avengers 2018 #1-#6, am up to date with Infinity Wars, Thor and Asgardians of the Galaxy. What else this year from Marvel features Loki?

Avengers seemed to me to have that annoying plot-driven thing where they want Loki to look like a villain but he’s revealed to be presumably working for good-ish at the end but meanwhile he’s done and said all these things which peg him as villainous. (Doesn’t he like Midgard?? I... thought he really did. But with so many comics to try to keep track of I never know what I might be missing - or how much it’s just poor continuity.) Sigh. Fantastically drawn, tense story though, very cinematic. Also, haven’t encountered She-Hulk before, but oh my, was some unexpected fanservice for me, lol.

Infinity Wars seems to have a Loki which the author doesn’t understand the nuance of. One of the reasons I like and collect modern representations of Loki is that he’s an alternative to the usual brute masculinity, but this Marvel author seems to do that boring old fashioned thing of pegging that alternative as weak, effete and comic - and so does the artist, honestly. Hopefully it gets better. I don’t fully understand the warped universe thing - does this tie into something I’ve missed or is it just trippy campy fun trying out new permutations of old stories?

Thor story is coherent (to me) and really enjoyable. I guess they’re putting the present on hold for a bit for a purpose? Nice Thor/Loki brother dynamics there too, and in general all the interpersonal dramatics, love me some squabbling Asgardians et al.

Asgardians of the Galaxy is fun too. Not sure how to feel about the Kid Loki reveal. If it goes against Gillen’s wishes I’ll be kinda pissed, I hope it’s some fakeout I guess.

[Raye]

I think you've covered most of the Loki stuff but you are missing the (excellent) Dr Strange run by Donny Cates, (I think it was 381 onward) and he shows up from time to time in Squirrel Girl. Looks like he's due to show up again in her book in just a few weeks, actually, along with fellow ex(?)-villains Kraven, Rhino, and Hippo... plus Iron Man and apparently Wolverine. But the story also apparently involves Skrull impostors, so who knows.

and yes, I agree, Duggan seems to have the broad strokes of the character, but is missing the nuance found when he is written under Ewing, Gillen, Cates and Aaron. I really don't care for his Loki at all, even if it has improved a bit over time, it's still missing the mark. I think the Warped thing is just a tie in to show what's going on in the soul Gem while the main story takes place in the main universe, or what's left of it, honestly i am not sure how that is supposed to work. if everyone is now in the soul gem, exactly what all is left of the main universe? i dunno.

And i get what you are saying about Avengers, which is part of why i said above that I think he needs a big dramatic reveal (for both the readers and characters in story) because though they did play up the villainous side in Avengers more than it is being played up in Thor, I felt they dropped enough hints to show that he was trying to help in his own special way, it is sometimes a bit too subtle, and it seems to matter how many hints they drop, most readers judge solely on actions, and can't seem to see the 'for good purpose' part of things. It's a bit frustrating, so though i am all for subtlety in storytelling, in this case, it feels like they kinda need to slap the audience across the face with it for it to finally sink in for a majority of readers.

But yeah, though the issues were kinda cluttered and i think they could have used another issue or three to make some of this more clear, I don't think he actually wanted to destroy the world or anything. He's just hamming it up because he knows the Avengers will join up together to fight a villain. He's chosen to be that villain, in order to get the team back together. First he goaded Odin with the Celestial he had dug up, while at the same time reminding him of his mistakes in the past and the very first 'Avengers' team. Odin in turn called on Black Panther, thanks to that reminder, and so on. If he had really intended to win, the whole bit with Odin would make no sense, because all it did was give the good guys advance warning, that's literally all his meeting with Odin accomplished. It only makes sense if he intended to warn Odin from the start, so that Odin would get the ball rolling on calling people together to stop him. Honestly i am not entirely sure how he managed to target some of the members specifically, but his narration boxes definitely seemed to indicate he had hand picked the roster. I think he figures that not only does there need to be a team of Avengers around, it needs to be these SPECIFIC characters for whatever reason. The hulk speculation could definitely go a long way to explaining why Jen is there, and maybe even Ghost Rider, but we will have to see for the others. I think the actions he took were on the extreme side for sure, but I think his intent was always to lose, after giving them the tools they needed to beat the threat by gathering together the right people, and dropping the right information on them in the form of villainous monloguing.

So on the Hulk speculation front, I remembered another possible hint from the past.



We've seen all of those either before or since that issue was published, except Hulk Loki, and Fairy Loki. Still no idea where Fairy Loki fits into things, if he ever will, but these recent teases in Avengers may shed some light on where the Hulk Loki fits into things. Having a closer look at him, he has the same hair as the present day Loki does, and he's got fur on his shoulders which kind of mirrors the fur collar on his coat. Like, if it was meant to be something from the past, I think it would have long hair like he used to have, yeah? (I mean, his hair is still long, but it used to be a lot longer, even if he kept it hidden a lot of the time) So between that and his dialogue in Avengers... I'm thinking that this was another one of his cryptic hints of the future, just that he did it visually rather than with words this time. And if that is the case, then this may point to the Avengers not FIGHTING a bunch of Hulks/The One Below All, but BECOMING them, because they get possessed by the One Below All. That could explain the 'sing their praises' bit, if everyone gets possessed. The people would be singing the praises of the One Below All, sure, but not like they'd be in their right mind.

ps. I gave my niece JIM to read as she stays here for the weekend, she's only like 5 issues in but seems to like it so far. So we may have a new convert convert. I mean, she likes the movies, and likes him in those, (especially Ragnarok cus Hulk is her favorite) but on the comics side of things, she didn't know much about him at all.

[calyx]

Cheers for the reply. I have caught up on the Loki arc in Dr Strange (thought twas last year), it was great, and Bats' death was heartbreaking. I have the Squirrel Girl issues, haven't caught up on them yet, are there any story-advancing things in them or mostly cuteness? Looking forward to it though.

I was okay with the Loki thing in Avengers, I just feel it could have been a bit less face-slappy even for the audience, but that does take a fair amount of skill to write. I mean, it's way less well done than, say, Snape, but it's passable. Good points re goading Odin.

Waaaaaiting for the War of the Realms thing to resolve, and presumably some kind of showdown between Loki and Malekith. And seeing his mum. and...

I remember that brilliant Loki montage, as an aside it SO reminds me of the iconic and awesomely creepy Aphex Twin "Come to Daddy" cover/video.

*goes back to lurking and reading clever theories*

[Raye]

Was it last year? though I talked to Donny Cates at the comic convention here this year, which was in.... April? and remember he was telling me about his final issue in his run, which hadn't yet come out. So maybe it started last year but finished this year. Either way, it's good, one of my favorite things with new Loki, and I hope Cates gets to do more with him. I keep checking solicits for that teased Midnight Sons book, but nothing so far.

In Squirrel Girl it was mostly just cute, but aside from North apparently forgetting that Loki was a damn good sorcerer long before "becoming" Sorcerer Supreme, it's fun. And if he is included in the Skrull story, along with those other ex-villains it could build on the stuff with Kraven in the last arc, maybe, where she kinda wanted to make a team of reformed villains.

I think Loki's whole Snape thing isn't done yet, and I kind of include both Thor and Avengers (and even stuff Aaron didn't write, like Dr Strange) in that. So while Avengers was not the best, (mostly it just felt like they crammed too much into too few issues, and the characterizations felt overly broad) I think when they are all added together they can be good, even with pacing issues and some parts not being the best. It depends on if he can nail the landing. Like i said, I think the problem isn't that it's too obvious, I think it's not obvious enough, for many readers. While I get what's going on, you get what's going on, I presume a lot of the people reading this post right now get it, if you look elsewhere, people still think of Loki's actions as straight up villainous, they are not catching the hints, for some reason. Even in like Dr Strange where, yes, he stole the title, but he did it so he could literally fix magic. Or Thor, where he did nothing but help in the fight with Sindr, people still think of his actions as villainous. That last one especially baffles me, because the only things he did which could be considered bad were teleporting Thor to Hel without asking him (so he could fight Sindr) and stabbing Thor in the chest, but only because Thor asked him to, and he did it in such a way that he didn't actually harm Thor permanently. Beyond that he was fairly unambiguously helping the good guys. But nope, still the villain in many readers eyes. I think that for their benefit, he needs a big, obvious, in your face reveal that simply can not be misinterpreted. I like subtlety, but it's not always the best option.

That being said, I don't think it necessarily needs to be accepted by all characters in the story. Loki has a LONG history as a straight up villain in the MU, and is notoriously deceptive, and I can understand some characters not trusting him. But I think certain characters, besides a few of the younger ones, would be able to see what he's doing. Most notably at the moment, I think Captain America and Black Panther could probably see what his true motive was here, even if they more than likely would not agree with his methods.

and yes, though I was pretty mad at Freyja at the end of Agent of Asgard, I think a reunion between them now would be sweet. But i think both of them have some grievances with each other that need to be addressed in the long run. And yes, there totally needs to be a showdown with Malektih. Hell, that could be a good place for the big dramatic reveal.

Don't lurk! the thread's kinda died the past few months, which is kin of a shame. And speculation is so much better when you can bounce ideas off of other people.

[Raye]

I didn't see Loki anywhere today in the books i read, but there was this bit of oddness in Jessica Jones of all places which.... feels suspiciously like Loki's involved.... (skipping a few pages because of image posting restrictions, but you get the idea)





Then later, Dani was purple. Like. That's weird, right? There was some serious Purple Man stuff going on here as well, so i am sure he is involved here as well, that's a given, even tho last we saw he was dead, so it may just be his memory that is lingering. But if Thor recognized that artifact, and said it could be used to 'summon trickster gods' that sets off all sorts of bells for me. I think it is not JUST Purple Man who is involved. I can see three scenarios here. Either Shulkie got that from Loki, somehow, or that IS Loki. handing out powers like candy again. for... reasons...

but we won't see the continuation of that until January, because of hos these digital exclusive books are released.