Loki Appreciation 2018

[Rosebunse]

Big day for Marvel.

Yeah, the part with Loki had me confused and wondered if it was a mistake, but damn, was it epic! There's just something so confusing about a Logan-still am not sure which Logan it is-being the one who's all cosmic and confusing to Loki.

And even though it's small, it's something to know that Loki isn't really a villain here and that this is all part of a larger plan here.

And it's not just in Aaron's book. A lot of the books this week felt very connected. We have the Maker over in Venom keeping an eye on multiple cosmic entities, then you have the vampires in Domino. While Domino's story is a longshot--there's a pretty good chance that Cates is going to wheel back to connecting to Thor, especially with Knull and All Black.

Nice catch about the myth where Loki turns into a woman and spends years on Earth with a husband and children. It would make quite a bit of sense and would actually be pretty painful, much more than what happened to Thor, especially if they got to stay and watch their husband rot away and who knows what happened to their children. We will probably never actually get this in comics, but one can dream.

It is interesting to see where Loki was and where he is now. Of course, it has taken a lot to get there.

[Raye]

So yeah, I was thinking about Wolverine. He said he had lived 'aeons' so it couldn't have been our Wolverine, (also, he had the Phoenix Force, so... that's kind of a hint too. I haven't been following his return too closely, but pretty sure that's not a thing yet) but in Thor, Phoenix Wolverine had white hair, and was just generally ancient looking. This one is young looking, in his prime. I am wondering if it isn't so much that Phoenix Wolverine time travelled, but that he sent his mind back in time to his body in the present. Because this clearly isn't present day Wolverine in terms of his mind, his dialogue gave that much away.

And I mean, we in this thread already knew it was all him playing the part of the bad guy, to accomplish a larger good end goal, but it is nice to have it spelled out. Though I'm thinking this still won't be enough for some people to finally catch on. Some seem particularly resistant to that bit of information sinking in.

And also, I think Loki may still join the Avengers, just later than I was initially thinking. I think the Winter Guard and the stuff with Perun and Chernobog was foreshadowing that, to an extent. Perun is an obvious stand-in for Thor, and if they had just meant Odin and Thor, they wouldn't have picked Chernobog, they'd have gone with Rod or something. And then Tony said you 'never go double god' so then you know they will.

ps. updated the playlist, glad i finally got to use Deceiver of the Gods. I hadn't used it yet because though it is a song literally about Loki, it didn't seem to fit current comics Loki very well after his recent character development. But this was old school Loki, so perfect fit. Which is now the last entry in the official list, everything after that is just me kinda making a note of things i think might come up in the future. (and if you have any suggestions for me to keep in mind, I am open to it. It doesn't have to be metal, even tough most of it currently is, but I do also have some straight up pagan folk and some Chris Cornell and such in there)

[Riimi]

I was quite pleased with Avengers. I was pretty sure he was playing the bad guy for good ends, but I kept worrying I was wrong. I hate uncertainty. Which it seems might be part of Loki's shtick to a certain extent. But I can deal with uncertain futures; it's only really important things (character motivations, etc.) that make me stress.

I am still not sure why he chose the Celestials for getting the team back together. I'm hoping that, although they destroyed some cities, etc., the loss of life wasn't too large. It was never mentioned, so let's just pretend everything's fine . (I may be overthinking this).

With that said, we got explicitly told that Loki had good intentions. In fact, we got told by a (semi?)-prescient cosmic entity that he'd done a good job (and one who's a former Avenger, at that). As far as I'm concerned, that's as close as you can come as an author to saying "I meant it this way." I kind of wonder if Aaron was saving that, or put it in when he saw a lot of people were at a loss. As far as it not sticking, an article on CBR basically blew off his claim that he'd gotten the avengers back together as being pompous (https://www.cbr.com/wolverine-hot-cl...-force-theory/), so I think it will still take a while for people to realize he's not a villain. It also posits that the Wolverine in the comic is the current Wolverine, which I actually lean towards. I figured the 'eons' mention could be the phoenix speaking. This Wolverine still looks young, compared to the old one in King Thor's time. But I'm far from certain or sold on the idea. In fact, I kind of lean towards hoping it's not (though it would also explain how Wolverine's suited for a part in the Infinity Watch). It's the same reason I've argued against some of Loki's possible power-ups: being the Phoenix's host and knowing the future is probably too powerful. I mean, he was able to double-cross a horde of Celestials! And I'm not anti-Wolverine, I think the idea of him and Loki working together could be fun. Though I feel like they might need a third person to damper their anti-heroic tendencies. Otherwise, they're just going to stab and double-cross everything in the galaxy (which could also be fun).

[Raye]

Geez, that article is a bizarre spinning of the events. Like, he had to actually twist what was on the page, because what was there really could not have been much clearer. I mean sure he was a bit pompous, but at the same time, he wasn't wrong, and then as soon as Wolverine himself showed up and confirmed what he said, and praises him for his actions no less, that takes the assertions being made out of Loki's often unreliable mouth, so we know it was the truth. And then of course pair that with a bunch of his more recent actions in Thor, Dr Strange, Infinity Wars.... it's pretty clear Loki's trying to do the right thing, even if his methods are.... unconventional. (and yeah, I've said before the Celestial thing seemed too big for what the intended goal was, but I am still hoping there was a bit more to it than that.) But yeah, as i said, it was made blatantly clear, but some just don't seem to want to accept it. I'm totally cool with the characters thinking he's up to no good, Loki himself said that he knew that would happen, and he was intentionally playing the part of the bad guy to accomplish his larger goals. But a lot of readers remaining resistant to the fact that he's on the right side is a bit frustrating.

But yeah, could be it was the Phoenix part speaking about being aeons old. As I said, i had not been following his return very closely. (that's a trade wait thing for me) It is a symbiotic relationship, and the Phoenix does have a fair bit of influence, after all. But.... not a generally positive one. Though if Thor was anything to go by, Wolverine seemed to resist the bad parts fairly well. And yeah, Phoenix Wolverine is pretty OP (though to be fair, any Phoenix host is pretty OP, it is an incredibly powerful cosmic force capable of destroying worlds) but I am OK with it as long as it is temporary. Sure, in King thor's timeline he had been the Phoenix host for ages, but if they STOP that future, it may be that the Phoenix moves on to another host, and then it will just be plain old Wolverine again. If that's the case, i am ok with him being temporarily all powerful, but if it is a permanent thing, not so much.

I'm just kinda of bummed this teamup will be done under Duggan, who botched the characterizations of both Loki and Wolverine (the whole face stabbing incident, and 'bamfin is fun' *shudders*) in Infinity Wars. I was just hoping we were free of him. :-/

Oh, i just realized I have to add Wolverine to my Sims game. and then make him friends with Loki. Maybe not BFFs, but friendly. Which will be a bit of a challenge because their personalities will be quite different. I'm kinda out of houses, so i think i may move Wong in with Strange and put him there. but will have to wait till next week. The Elder Scrolls Online has a thing starting tomorrow, so...

[Rosebunse]

I can't wait to see that Sim lol

Even on here we have gotten into some pretty heated arguments on how Aaron was writing Loki. That seemed to die down when Duggan started introduing his controversial take on him, but it's been there.

It's just nice to get something concrete on Loki, something we can hold onto, especially given Loki's appearance in Thor at the end of time. If he's good now, what is going on with that Loki? Is he a King Loki who just wasn't rehabilitated? Our Loki? A different one altogether? He has to realize what All Black is, doesn't he?

So, about Logan. Isn't it weird to be talking about fucking Wolverine so much on this sub? Well, Wolverine has heated up claws in his return miniseries. If those claws heat up because of the Phoenix force, then wouldn't that imply that that Logan and the one we see are the same? Maybe the Logan in that return comic isn't the real Logan?

I like the inclusion of the Celestials. I mean, what else was going to bring the Avengers back together? He needed a big threat, yet one which wasn't too personal for most of them. The Celestials are that.

Plus, we see Marvel sort of pushing them right now. Celestials have had their hands in many different pots over the years. They are responsible for so much, like mutants and Apocalypse and just about everything.

[Raye]

Yeah but our debates over if he had returned to the dark side or not were early into Aaron's run. The longer it went on, especially when you threw in Dr Strange, Thor, Squirrel Girl, Infinity Wars, the more clear it became that he was doing bad things in the service of a larger good, and that he did not really want to be the villain anymore, but he's doing it because he thinks makingsure that certain things get done is more important than his own wants. (which, I have said before, greater good type thinking has its own problems, one of which I will get into below, but it is still a whole lot better than flat out villain with bad intent) Aside from maybe a nagging doubt every once in a while, I don't think anyone here seriously thought he had turned heel again for quite some time, because we actually paid attention to what was being done with him. I can understand that not everyone reads every appearance with him like most of us do, so they may not catch all the hints, (I mean, as I just said, same goes for me and Wolverine right now, can't read everything) and that's fine, but to put the blinders on when it is spelled out as blatantly as it has been in this issue of Avengers is baffling to me.

As for Loki at the end of time, I mean it is thousands of years off, character development isn't a one time thing, so he may have just reverted in that time. But I suspect that it is, again, that his actions look bad, but his intent is good(ish). Though I suspect the morality of the situation there is more murky than the present. I suspect that the universe needs to die for the next version to be born, and he thinks that putting the universe out of its misery so that can happen is the better option.

Wolverine I keep, going back and forth. Dialogue points to a time traveling Logan, and it would explain some discrepancies between his return book and his other appearances, but the art looks more like present day Wolverine.

And as for the Celestials, my problem with that isn't that they were used, it's what happened when they were. Cities were crushed when they fell, including Atlantis. It could have been something besides Celestials that caused the same level of damage ane my problems with it would remain. No matter how good his intentions may have been, Namor attacking the surface world right now is largely Loki's fault, because intent doesn't change the end result for the people that were hurt in the name of the larger good.

[Riimi]

Right now, I'm happier with how Aaron is writing Loki than with how he is writing Thor (though I probably did complain back then, lol). With that said, I dislike some aspects of how he portrays Thor, but I don't hate it with a burning passion (which is why I stay away from that thread). Now that I think it over, I think Aaron may purposefully be showcasing Thor's flaws to make him a more rounded character (and there were hints of them before, so they didn't come from nowhere). It makes him less of a paragon, and I hope he regains some of that when he picks up the hammer again, but it's a valid literary technique.

Loki has flaws! Lots of them! So, their lack isn't an issue when writing him. Writing him right now, to me, is getting the proper balance between his flaws and his overcoming them. Like, I know what everyone has said about infinity wars, and I agree that it was confusing, but I honestly thought that it was perfect he let everyone use the gems until they'd defeated Gamora, and then he swiped them. That's an arguably selfish, yet well-meaning Loki (who also knows how to prioritize).

My issue with the Celestials is that, iirc, one of them fell atop of and ruined Atlantis, becoming an early catalyst for the whole issue with Namor they're having right now. And I believe someone else said that it had happened all across the globe. So, even if the falls didn't kill anyone, they did what's likely millions to billions of dollars in structural damage. I'd say that was maybe an oversight, but Aaron already referenced it with Namor and isn't prone to making large oversights.. With that said, it fits Loki's characterization to do something that hurts people (losing their homes, etc). if it's to stave off greater damage.

I want him to become good friends with Wolverine. Although I'm still saddened we don't get Loki and Strange partying (and snarking) in a Cates book. Honestly, I was surprised to see him and Logan get along. They're not only two people with pretty different personalities, they're two people with pretty different large personalities (at least, that's always been my impression of Logan --I don't follow Wolverine) .

I'm wondering what's big enough in the War of the Realms that Loki feels like he needs all the artefacts. Not just the infinity stones (okay, I'm pretty sure they're going to be in the War of the Relams), but also that horn. Because it's not like the infinity stones do all that much, or anything. So far, while we've seen Malekith looking villainous, we haven't seen any sort of threat that merits that sort of panic. So, I'm kind of interested to see if there's a surprise.

[Rosebunse]

I mean, any huge threat Loki could have gone with would have had longlasting consequences. That just makes it more likely for the Avengers to stay together. Had he picked something that was just going to be easily fixed, they would have worked on it and gone their separate ways. Now they have to be the Avengers or risk worldwide destruction and mayhem. It's a great plan!

I feel like some of the issue with Loki is that, well, he's sort of a new character. Yes, we had old Loki for decades, but this Loki is so different that even though he is technically not a new character, he also sort of is. And what this means is that writers are still finding their voice with him. This doesn't excuse all of the problems writers have had with him, but it does demonstrate how some writers just don't know what to do with him yet.

Loki and Logan are very different characters, yet in many ways are quite similar. They have each done horrific things in the name of the greater good, they each were at one point straight up villains, and they each are looking for some sort of redemption. The difference there is that Logan has been on that journey longer and has been able to come to terms with himself, while Loki is still learning and making mistakes.

[Raye]

But what I, and I think Riimi, are saying is that I don't think the threat needed to be THAT huge and potentially devastating just to get the Avengers back together again. It could have been brought down a few notches and accomplished the same thing, imo. It's not as if they would have forgotten all the other times the world was in danger from all manner of things. Like, they'd been broken up all of a month, and it's not like there was a 'no Avengers ever again!' announcement or anything. They just had a case of burnout. And literally at the same time as that first arc, we got the West Coast Avengers coming together completely on their own with no outside influence at all. Granted, they are being played as a group of oddball misfits, and it did seem that Loki wanted some specific members on his team, and it may be that there were other reasons he went for this method, but still.

And I dunno, given how insanely busy Loki's been lately, so busy he had to split himself in two to be everywhere he needed to be, if anything, it seems like his character development has given a lot of people ideas. It's a new status quo, that means new stories to tell. As Riimi mentioned, looks like they can't even get to all the ideas that have been put forward, Cates' Midnight Sons teaser apparently led nowhere, or has at least been delayed a whole lot, (that teaser was in.... April? it's been a while.) and he could have quite possibly been in that. Which is sad, because I really wanted that one, it could have been a ton of fun, and the frenemy thing he had with Strange was great. I prefer some takes over others, for sure, but at the very least there is no shortage of ideas. And the ones who haven't gotten a good handle on his characterization are actually the exception. I mean as mentioned before, I don't think where he is now is quite what Ewing intended at the end of Agent of Asgard, but all the same, Aaron, Cates, North, all seem pretty consistent with each other. (North's is more lighthearted, but that's more because the book as a whole is) Bunn it's a little hard to say because it's only been a few issues and he's only had a couple scenes in that time, and it may also be that this 'Kid Loki' is supposed to be acting a bit different than Loki Prime, i dunno. The one who really blew it was Slott, who was seemingly writing him as old-school Loki and it just doesn't fit with the others at all. but on average, more get it than not.

Duggan gets his own paragraph cus it also kinda goes to some things Riimi said as well... ok, my main problem with Infinity Wars is not what's happening. As a list of plot points, the broad strokes of what happens, it's mostly fine. My problem is with how it gets from one plot point to the next, which is mostly a whole lot of vague handwaves and ass pulls, coupled with sometimes downright bizarre characterizations from some characters. Not just Loki, he's just the one I care the most about. Some of them seem to be off in order to make getting to the next plot point work, characters acting out of character just because the plot requires it. (though some also just seem to be for the hell of it, like the gratuitous and nonsensical face stabbing incident) Now, a handwave once in a while is ok, we just kinda got one in Avengers with Wolverine showing up to rescue Loki. But it's the exception there, rather than the rule, and Loki and Wolverine were both still in character.

In terms of Loki in particular, thinking about it, I think my main problem besides the voice is that his motivations are backwards. In the other writers stuff (minus Slott) Loki is acting selflessly in a weird way. He doesn't want to be the bad guy, but he's biting the bullet and playing the part anyway because, at least from his perspective, that's what is needed to get the job of saving the world done. In Infinity Wars, he is acting selfishly, he doesn't want to be the bad guy anymore, and his actions, when he isn't being blindly pulled along by the plot, are driven by that, any good he accomplishes is kinda accidental. He's not doing what he's doing to save the universe, saving the universe is just what he needs to do in order to accomplish his real goal of finding out who is 'tricking him' (ugh) You see? It's backwards. Thor, Avengers, Dr Strange, his main goal is to do a larger good thing, stop the War of the Realms (even if that was unclear for a while), save his mom, save the world, re-assemble the Avengers, fix magic. And he did bad things to achieve those goals, because that's what everyone expected from him, and where he could find the most success (or at least that's what he thought). Some worse than others, but still, he was playing the part of a bad guy on some level in all of them, but his end goal was good and selfless because he was sacrificing what he wanted on a personal level (to not be the bad guy) to achieve them. then in Infinity Wars he's all about himself, and though he doesn't do anything too bad, he's doing things for selfish reasons. It's wrong on a fundamental level. And yeah, his voice is just... off. It's gotten better in that regard but it's still not quite there.

Wolverine... Yeah, they are very different, but they are also similar in some ways. Loki doing bad things for a good purpose? Logan would get that, if nothing else, it's kinda his whole deal, even if his 'bad things' take a different, more bloody form. But Logan is... (and I don't mean this in a bad way) crude, he has simple tastes. He's also very to the point and direct. And Loki is... not. But Logan hasn't let differences come in the way of friendship before, his BFF in the whole world is Nightcrawler, and they kinda could not be more different in many ways.

[Rosebunse]

Logan is also a massive, massive hypocrite, as any Cyclops fan will remind you. So while he might give Loki some pity, I doubt it would be too much. That's partially why the random and gratuitous face stabbing wasn't that out of character for me.

Really, if that was the only problem with Duggan's thing, I would be fine. It is t only Loki who is being written inconsistently. Go on any forum and it's the same: people seem to want to like Infinity War, we know Duggan can be a great writer, but the whole thing is so very, very confused. The only thing people are happy about was how fucking amazing Emma Frost was in the last issue, but even a great showing by Queen Emma isn't enough to save this.

Then you have issues with the timeline since this last issues of Avengers I think did imply that Loki was being tortured by the Celestials for a rather long time. So now that makes Infinity Wars makes no sense unless that Loki is another piece of Loki that was ripped off, which still makes no sense.

And you know, I normally don't mind making up my own headcanon timelines for comics, but this time I just can't do it.

[Raye]

I don't think Loki was with the Celestials all that long. You can't tell me he had been there for months and yet he was still just kinda shocked at how uncreative they were. Yeah the caption said 'meanwhile' but just looking at the events, I think he was there like a week at most. And then he gets it in his head, thanks to Wolverine's warning, that he really had to step up his game, hence resorting to splitting himself in two in order to accomplish everything he needed to do. He didn't go right back to the Avengers, but did make a brief stop when they had gathered for the fight with Gamora. And so on. Though this just highlights how off his motivations are in Infinity Wars. If he took Wolverine's warning seriously, then he should have had much bigger things on his mind than finding out who was 'tricking him' (ugh) into being a bad guy, even tho as I said above that doesn't even make sense since in everything but this, it is his own choice.

And I don't think Wolverine was a hypocrite, just principled, and acted in response to early signs of a heel turn. Cyke was heading the way of becoming Magneto 2.0, he was doing a heel turn long before the whole Phoenix mess. Wolverine had never agreed with Magneto's approach, so why should he agree with Cyke when he started to become more radicalized and heading in the same direction? Especially when he had never liked Scott in the first place. Though they could both broadly be described as doing bad things for a good intent, Wolverines style of that was a decidedly different flavor than Magneto/Cyke's. I was totally on Wolverine's side through the whole thing.

[Rosebunse]

But Logan is a murderer and was happy to use Angel's growing bloodlust and his sizable bank account to go on what was essentially a well principaled murder spree. While I did agree with Logan, I couldn't help but feel like Cyclops wasn't being talked down to a bit. He and Magneto aren't exactly wrong given how mutants are so often treated, it's just that Magneto is something of a sociopath and Cyclops is an incredibly traumatized man who has no real healthy way of coping with the **** he has been through.

Plus, well, Logan is a killer. Why does he get a pass and everyone else doesn't?

This timeline in Infinity War is so messed up. Maybe the last issue will clear things up, but probably not.

So we have the War of the Realms cover. It is beautiful, I am hype, all live the hype, the hype is real, but I am noticing a real lack of Loki. And I'm noticing that the black tendrils the heroes appear to be fighting off look like symbiote tendrils. And Venom is involved in it. My guess that All Black finds its way back to this timeline and goes to find Knull, which will be a bit of a gamechanger.

Also, and this is just something I can't not think about, what do you guys think Loki is? We are getting hints that he isn't really a Frost Giant, sure, but what is he? I can't see Laufey just raising a child that doesn't belong to him for no reason, especially one as small and weird as Loki. I really sort of wonder if Laufey didn't make a deal on something with someone to get a child and that deal just didn't work out for him, especially given how much trouble Loki has been for Odin and his family.

[Riimi]

Ah, Raye, I think I understand your issue with the Infinity Wars stuff now. Quite honestly, I forgot about the whole "tricking him" aspect and figured he wanted the stones for the War of the Realms. Honestly. Can't believe I got that mixed up, lol. I understand why the reality is kinda backwards. Especially since, in Loki's own, weird way, he's being incredibly selfless in the other titles. (As an aside, I'm still reading some of his pomposity as a defense mechanism because he's upset...in fact, you could argue that for Loki in pretty much every incarnation, to a certain extent).

I know Wolverine kind of sent him on a mission to fix even more ****, but I hope someone else recognizes what he's doing at some point. (I'd like his brother to, personally, or maybe Freya.) I'm hoping that happens during/after the war of the realms. I do like how many things he's fighting that are cosmic in scope. He pretended to be Sorcerer Supreme and got away with it because he's powerful enough, he managed to trick a bunch of Celestials and the Avengers, he managed to put together a team to stop someone who was wielding the infinity stones, he split himself in half to both stop Nebula and acquire a horn that controls dead gods...his feat list is quite impressive lately. Somewhat surprisingly, I haven't seen many people comment that he's been showing up so much. Though, that could because we follow him semi-obsessively and they don't ;p

Speaking of the War of the Realms, there was a teaser released (there's a thread, now). Surprisingly, the picture didn't have Loki on it. However, it seemed to be a picture of all the heroes who'd be appearing, and I guess Loki's still technically working for Malekith. Seems like they're still trying to obscure his true allegiance (still)? I think Malekith suspects Loki will betray him (because it's Loki and Malekith's not stupid), but damn, if Loki isn't amassing an arsenal.

About what he might be instead of a frost giant...still no clue.

It does make sense if Knull's involvement is the gamechanger, since I've been wondering what could stand up against the weapons Loki has. Also, I'm kind of wondering how Necro!Loki ties into this, since he was in the original two page spread (though that could just be in the flash forwards). Also, let me say, I'm pleased that he's a bigger threat than Avengers!Doom in the future (part of that is the sword, sure, but he managed to get the damn thing). I am kind of hoping the current one becomes aware of what his future counterpart is doing (and I think it is still the same Loki--his lot is to always be a villain in the future). It would upset him so much, but might be necessary to stop it.

[Rosebunse]

You see, that's how confusing Infinity War is. You have to create your own internal logic just to process it and you don't even realize you're doing it.

My theory is that Loki is gonna get caught eventually, probably by either Malekith or Laufey. To be fair with Laufey, the guy actually has a healthy amount of mistrust in Loki. And Malekith clearly knows something is up with Loki. He's goaded him and questioned him before. The question is, will they try and take him out of the game early or in the middle or at the end? And how would they do it? Actually, Laufey might give us more information on Loki of this happens.

We do follow Loki rather obsessively, don't we? But isn't that sort of our jobs? Lol I think the issue is that he's appearing in so many different books that it can slip by you if you aren't obsessively following him.

My guess is that Necro!Loki isn't really going to be the problem. All Black will just use him to go back in time to find Knull, then discard him or set him up.

[Raye]

While I do think Malekith and Laufey suspect him, i don't think they will actually catch him, because then he can't really betray them. Betraying people is Loki's thing, if he doesn't get the chance to betray Malekith, it will be a huge letdown. Right now, though they are suspicious of him, he's also too valuable (well, Malekith thinks this more than Laufey) to not use him, even if there is a chance he's actually using them.

Plus, well, Logan is a killer. Why does he get a pass and everyone else doesn't?

Because it's not just about killing, it's about who is being killed and why. It's more like a political difference rather than a disagreement over the actions that result from those beliefs. Magneto, and Cyke was heading in this direction, even if he hadn't reached the point yet, killed innocents whose only 'crime' was being human, even if he felt this was the only way to save mutants, because he saw it as a 'us vs them' situation, where there could only be one winner. Wolverine only kills people who pose an actual threat to others, mutant or not. Magneto/Cyke took an isolationist approach, while Wolverine was a big believer in Xavier's idea of cooperation, even if he felt certian bad actors had to be removed from the picture to let that happen. There is a significant difference there, even if you can definitely make a point that Wolverine went too far at times.

So we have the War of the Realms cover. It is beautiful, I am hype, all live the hype, the hype is real, but I am noticing a real lack of Loki. And I'm noticing that the black tendrils the heroes appear to be fighting off look like symbiote tendrils. And Venom is involved in it. My guess that All Black finds its way back to this timeline and goes to find Knull, which will be a bit of a gamechanger.

I still don't think the Necrosword will be coming back to the present, if for no other reason than it would create a future with two Necroswords floating around at once, the second Gorr appeared in the future during the Godbomb arc. And if the King Thor future is prevented from happening, and thus, one can presume, the event that leads the Necrosword to being sent back never happens, because if it all plays out exactly the same what even is the point? then it's a full blown time paradox, which would be a huge mess. (the Godbomb arc may even play out differently if they stop the War of the Relams, though Gorr made his decision to time travel already, so that still happens no matter what, but curious if they would address that) Malekith's magic is often shown to be black, so it's probably just that. And yeah, no Loki is a bit disappointing, but I am sure he's going to be on the right side at the end, especially after reading Avengers #10, in addition to the previous hints that he would backstab Malekith. And he has already turned against Malekith a few times, bu siccing Jane on those frost giant, and by helping Thor in Hel.

Also, and this is just something I can't not think about, what do you guys think Loki is? We are getting hints that he isn't really a Frost Giant, sure, but what is he? I can't see Laufey just raising a child that doesn't belong to him for no reason, especially one as small and weird as Loki. I really sort of wonder if Laufey didn't make a deal on something with someone to get a child and that deal just didn't work out for him, especially given how much trouble Loki has been for Odin and his family.

We don't really have enough information to answer that. The hints he may not be Laufey's son are vague as it is, any hints about what he may be just aren't there. But.... I do still maintain that the only thing that would likely have a real impact on Loki is if Odin is his actual biological father. How he managed the deed with a giantess, I am not entirely sure, but I just don't think Loki has any reason to care otherwise, and it would connect back way to the beginning of Aaron's run with Cul's comment to Loki about being an Odinson, and would create some vague synergy with the MCU where he is Loki Odinson rather than Laufeyson, even if the situation that led to it is quite different.

Ah, Raye, I think I understand your issue with the Infinity Wars stuff now. Quite honestly, I forgot about the whole "tricking him" aspect and figured he wanted the stones for the War of the Realms. Honestly. Can't believe I got that mixed up, lol. I understand why the reality is kinda backwards. Especially since, in Loki's own, weird way, he's being incredibly selfless in the other titles. (As an aside, I'm still reading some of his pomposity as a defense mechanism because he's upset...in fact, you could argue that for Loki in pretty much every incarnation, to a certain extent).

Honestly, though I do hate the 'tricking' aspect, most of my problems don't have to do with Loki specifically at all, it's just badly written in general. Also, I have never liked Deodato's art, and his new thing with those fake decorative panels bugs me no end, so i can't even enjoy it from an artistic side.

I know Wolverine kind of sent him on a mission to fix even more ****, but I hope someone else recognizes what he's doing at some point. (I'd like his brother to, personally, or maybe Freya.) I'm hoping that happens during/after the war of the realms. I do like how many things he's fighting that are cosmic in scope. He pretended to be Sorcerer Supreme and got away with it because he's powerful enough, he managed to trick a bunch of Celestials and the Avengers, he managed to put together a team to stop someone who was wielding the infinity stones, he split himself in half to both stop Nebula and acquire a horn that controls dead gods...his feat list is quite impressive lately. Somewhat surprisingly, I haven't seen many people comment that he's been showing up so much. Though, that could because we follow him semi-obsessively and they don't ;p

Yeah. Thor may have too much baggage to recognize what he's doing, but I think Black Panther or Cap are smart enough to figure it out, (Tony is also smart, but a different kind of smart, not sure if he'd see the tactical moves being made here) especially Cap, after spending all that time with Loki, and after Loki saved him from being vaporized inside the sun. Freyja I think has hope rather than having actually figured out what he's doing, but I think she'd accept it the second it looked like he was on the right side.