Loki Appreciation 2018

[Rosebunse]

I mean that this King Loki is a different Loki than the other one. Like he was recreated when the universe was recreated, probably by accident. This is a King Loki that hasn't learned his lesson.

I don't think Loki gained much hidden knowledge from King Loki. I mean, yeah, there's something there, but even Loki has to know that things have changed too much for those memories to be reliable.

However, remember at the start of Agent of Asgard when King Loki poisoned/posessed Thor? Isn't that sort of similar to what we saw with the Gardener?

[Raye]

Given how Agent of Asgard ended, I don't think it was really possible for King Loki to be recreated, Loki took them both outside the universe at about the time the world would have been recreated. I also just really hope it is not, because i think Loki having to fight himself is a dead horse at this point. It is time to move on, not repeat the same damn thing for the fourth time in less than 10 years.

And i still think he is operating with future knowledge most likely gained via King Loki. He just knows too much. The hints he gave in Dr Strange, he seemed awfully damn certain about the fate of Asgard in Thor, and all the weird things he is doing there, him telling Wolverine that he knew things, but that it would make no sense if he explained how, Duggan saying in that interview that he carried a 'burden'. This all fits future knowledge, regardless of how it is gained. But I mean, it's right there on panel, a bunch of memories of the future were shoved into his head ON PANEL.

What he and King Loki changed affected primarily him, and by extension Asgard, to a lesser extent. But the specific events he showed did still happen, Loki's role in them just changed. As long as the events he learned about did not rely on his own actions to come about, they should still be largely accurate. I mean, the MU is not shaped solely by Loki's actions, tons of stuff happens without his involvement, which King Loki could have still known about. And even if they did involve him, as long as he sticks to the script, they should still happen, assuming he wants them to happen. And we are talking Celestials, specifically one that appeared a million years ago and had been buried since. Nothing Loki or King Loki changed in the past few years would have affected that in the slightest, not like it popped into the ground because Loki did something different a million years later. The War of the Realms, that got rolling before King Loki appeared, though it didn't become known about until after. So that would have still happened as well, though Loki has already been mucking about in that, so it is hard to say how it would have gone without him. The Infinity Gems are a bit trickier, but it still can work. Knowing about the Infinity Gems reappearing relies on the incursions and subsequent re creation of the universe happening in the timeline of King Loki. But let's assume the incursions happened there. Loki would have had nothing to do with the Infinity Gems reappearing, that is a cosmic level event, way beyond his ability to influence, so again, nothing there would have changed until he began meddling in things. Damnation is where it gets muddy, it may not have happened at all if Loki had not taken the title, and rebooted magic, thereby making Strange want to prove himself and giving him the raw power to do so. So this one is iffy.

And the bit where King Loki took over Thor was in one of the issues I just re read, that wasn't poison, that was King Loki kinda stepping outside of the story (he was in the gutters) and possessing Thor bodily, its not the same thing, even if the effects were similar. I mean, we saw Loki do it in Guardians of the Galaxy, it's not really leaving a lot of room for interpretation there.

[kaimaciel]

Sorry to but in with movie Loki stuff, but a new scan and info came out.

tumblr_p5a550YamO1ue7268o1_1280.jpg

"Before the end of Thor: Ragnarok, Tom Hiddleston’s Loki managed to pocket the blue Space Stone locked away in Asgard’s archive. This is the object Thanos sent him to retrieve in the original Avengers, and he not only failed — he lost the staff that contained the yellow Mind Stone (now giving life to Paul Bettany’s Vision). We know Thanos collects the Space Stone early in Infinity War, so Loki has likely settled his account. Partially."

This movie is gonna be the death of me. I just hope they don't destroy all his character development from Ragnarok by having him simply hand over the Tesseract to save his own skin, that if he does, it's because he's planning to help defeat Thanos by playing Mephisto's part from the comics. And I really hope they don't kill him off. That would be so predictable. I hate the redemption by death trope. It's overused.

[Raye]

I dunno, if he dies, especially if it is in a self sacrificial/redemptive way, we may get JIM, and I would be totally cool with that. Actors will always have the problem of aging, while the comics versions are eternally young... so we know the current crop of actors have to be replaced eventually anyway, sooner rather than later for most of them. And while this is true for all of them, it is especially true for Hiddleston and Hemsworth, since their characters are supposed to be immortal. I'd prefer an adaptation of JIM to a straight up recast, but he's gotta die for that to happen. Now, if they kill him without the JIM, that'd suck, but I mean, they know he's one of the more popular characters, I doubt they would just let him go entirely.

[Rosebunse]

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about a JiM movie. The story is very Marvel specific commentary. Plus, it's ultimately one long look into child murder. And given how different movie Loki is from OG Loki, I'm not sure some of it would work.

I think it would be smarter to combine JiM and Agent of Asgard. Age the new Loki up a little, figure out how to make it work for the movie, etc.

But I have faith in Marvel/Disney.

Now, I know this isn't the Black Panther thread, but let's be real, that movie could have been a trainwreck. Like, even ten years ago, it woulf have been a buddy cop comedy/action movie of T'Challa coming to America and learning how to loosen up with or some **** with an American cop, probably played by Tom Cruise or Mark Walberg.

Instead, we got a complex and engaging movie about the intergenerational effects of slavery and oppression in the black community, isolationism, and the importance of family.

So, I trust Disney can make this work.

[kaimaciel]

I don't think they will do a JIM or AoA movie. There isn't enough demand for it. Marvel will be focusing on new characters, the x-men and probably the Fantastic Four. If they continued with the Thor franchise they would be focusing more on Thor and probably Valkyrie.

[Raye]

I think it would be more suited to a TV show, rather than a movie, but I still think it could work, and it is possible they may do it. It is not MU specific commentary, it is applicable to all forms of media, it is just something we see a lot of with comics because the characters have been around so long, but it could still work in a different medium. Obviously, they would have to change a lot of details, Becuase it relied on Fear Itself, and had guest appearances from the New Mutants and such, but in broad strokes terms, there is nothing about it that wouldn't work. (well, Hela/Leah is a problem, but I think there are ways around that, especially if it is a loose adaptation)

They need to recast the part, or just let it go, within the next few years. And they have this story sitting there giving them a perfect way to recast it and have it make sense, and could even lead into a Young Avengers thing, giving them more new characters. And most of what they do as movies or shows lacks 'demand' do you really think fans were crying out for a Legion show? Guardians of the Galaxy? Jessica Jones? Doctor Strange? If they have what they think will work, they will make it, and MAKE the audiences care, they have done it before, several times.

[Rosebunse]

Yeah, I don't think the demand really needs to be there. There is a demand for it among some of the fandom and I think it's a logical step for the character.

I just think the "status quo is king" commentary is especially loud for the comic. We just don't see it anywhere else like we do in the comics of the Big Two, where characters and stories are forced to live and exist for decades longer than what you see in any other medium. They can't do that in the movies.

Personally, I think Loki is going to die in Infinity and Thor will believe that Loki sold everyone out, even though the truth will be much more complicated. And then a version of himself will be stored in the Soul gem or something, but the "data" will become "corrupted" and the rebooted Loki will be the "teen" or "kid" Loki we know so well. And Thor will be conflicted about the whole thing, then he'll learn that Loki wasn't a self bastard through some sort of discovery or something. You'd need more details and all that, but I think a basic plot like this is easy, logical, and close enough to the comics that we'll get a kick out of it.

Also, does anyone else think this new Loki costume is sort of close to the AoA costume?

[Raye]

Yeah, I don't think the demand really needs to be there. There is a demand for it among some of the fandom and I think it's a logical step for the character.

I just think the "status quo is king" commentary is especially loud for the comic. We just don't see it anywhere else like we do in the comics of the Big Two, where characters and stories are forced to live and exist for decades longer than what you see in any other medium. They can't do that in the movies.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...StatusQuoIsGod

check the examples, it's one of the pages where they had to put the examples categories on their own pages. Though I won't deny that the comic book section is longer than some of the others, because this is one of the few mediums where characters have been in continuous use for over 50 years in some cases. But comics also have a linear progression of plot and continuity, so they actually have it better than, say, some cartoons such as the Simpsons.

It's a pretty universal trope, certainly universal enough that i think most people would get it, and it can resonate with real life too, where people get stuck in a rut they can't seem to escape. Even though I do realize Gillen directed a lot of the commentary at status quo in fiction specifically.

Personally, I think Loki is going to die in Infinity and Thor will believe that Loki sold everyone out, even though the truth will be much more complicated. And then a version of himself will be stored in the Soul gem or something, but the "data" will become "corrupted" and the rebooted Loki will be the "teen" or "kid" Loki we know so well. And Thor will be conflicted about the whole thing, then he'll learn that Loki wasn't a self bastard through some sort of discovery or something. You'd need more details and all that, but I think a basic plot like this is easy, logical, and close enough to the comics that we'll get a kick out of it.

Also, does anyone else think this new Loki costume is sort of close to the AoA costume?

Looks like it's just the Ragnarok costume to me? of is there another picture out there i haven't seen? but they did use a headdress very similar to the AoA one in Ragnarok, so...

[juan678]

Line it is drawn

[Rosebunse]

Sometimes I do wish we'd get that Wonder Woman vs Loki matchup. She'd kick his ass no matter what, but still.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...StatusQuoIsGod

check the examples, it's one of the pages where they had to put the examples categories on their own pages. Though I won't deny that the comic book section is longer than some of the others, because this is one of the few mediums where characters have been in continuous use for over 50 years in some cases. But comics also have a linear progression of plot and continuity, so they actually have it better than, say, some cartoons such as the Simpsons.

It's a pretty universal trope, certainly universal enough that i think most people would get it, and it can resonate with real life too, where people get stuck in a rut they can't seem to escape. Even though I do realize Gillen directed a lot of the commentary at status quo in fiction specifically.



Looks like it's just the Ragnarok costume to me? of is there another picture out there i haven't seen? but they did use a headdress very similar to the AoA one in Ragnarok, so...

But that's the point, comics from the Big 2 are very unique in how long they do go for. You simply don't see Status Quo is God anywhere else the way you do in comics. It doesn't help that Loki hasn't actually been all that horrible in the movies. In the comics, Loki really was the monster everyone was making him out to be, especially after his theft of Sif's body and the very fact that he orchestrated the murder of kidLoki and basically created a completely new entity who's life he always intended to make his own. This is to say nothing of the murder of Bor or any of the other horrible things he did. In fact, I think the long history of Marvel comics actually played quite well into this. Even among the most fervent of Loki fans, there's always that underlying fear that Loki will revert back to what he was. The fact that he really hasn't yet succumbed to that fate is actually rather surprising.

I knew kidLoki wasn't going to last, but after that I just sort of assumed old Loki would be back shortly after. But then Young Avengers happened and I thought he'd be back after that. Then AoA came about and, well, here we are. There's a definite appeal to our current Loki. It might be his looks, his story, or Tim Hiddleston, but there's just something that works with him. I honestly can't see Marvel reverting him back to what he was at this point.

But now I'm rambling...

My point is, a JiM and/or an AoA movie could definitely work and work well, but it's going to take some changes to the source material and our own expectations.

[Raye]

I'm just saying it's not THAT unique, to the point where it can't be applicable. and yeah, it would obviously take some changes, a direct 100% faithful adaptation would not work for a variety of reasons, but I'm just saying that if they want to continue with the character, he does come with a baked in story to recast the part without it being jarring. also, Ragnarok in particular did redeem him a fir amount, that's true, so the redemption angle isn't as big a thing, but I mean, he was a fairly straight up bad guy in Avengers, lots of people probably died in the attack on NY, so...

Anyway, Squirrel Girl preview:

https://www.cbr.com/unbeatable-squirrel-girl-30/

He's just in one page, tho. And i still remain kind of disappointed he is still not participating in the Twitter recaps.

[dr4conianlaw]

To be fair, I think him being out of the twitter recaps is just because he's already a part of the current story, and North often uses the recaps for cameos for unrelated characters? I do definitely hope he joins the twitter recaps every so often after this though, he's definitely been in Squirrel Girl enough to deserve it.

[Raye]

Hopefully. I just think he would be a fun addition, rather than just Iron Man and Spider-Man all the time (ok, sometimes others, like Howard the Duck and stuff, but you know)

Been thinking and I am actually really anxious for the Fresh Start to get underway, specifically Avengers and Thor. Because, though I have enjoyed Jane-Thor for the most part, I do feel like it was stretched for out too long, and now with OG Thor back in action and the Final host getting under way, it feels like there is forward momentum happening again, and like we will finally see a resolution to everything soonish. Also really looking forward to seeing Thor and Loki interact again, even though I know it will be very bad for them at first.

[Rosebunse]

I have really loved Jane as Thor. I think we'll all miss her and look back at this time fondly.

But yes, it's exciting to actually feel like we might get some closure!

Is there anything Loki can do to make it up to Thor? Especially after Jane dies. Is that going to make Thor more angry when he sees Loki? Or could it soften himself? Give Loki an opening to make his return?

Personally, I think Loki can do it, but it's going take some sort of personal sacrifice. The thing is, Loki can't even kill himself without risking another Loki coming into the picture.