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  1. #4081
    Incredible Member kaimaciel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpmaluki View Post
    Just saw the trailer. spoilers:
    I'm guessing Loki gives Thanos the tessarect in a futile attempt to save Thor and what's left of the Asgardians. I also think Loki somehow manages to spirit his brother and Bruce away at the last moment, I don't know how he'd manage it though if he's already given the stone away.
    end of spoilers
    On one hand, I honestly hope that's what is happening, on the other, I'm kinda nervous we always see him in what looks like the same scene and Tom's name isn't on the poster...

  2. #4082
    Extraordinary Member Raye's Avatar
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    He is looking rather nervous, and is surrounded by the entire Black Order, including Ebony Maw, who can control minds, and Proxima Midnight has her spear pointed at his head, so I somehow doubt he had much choice in the matter. so no matter what happens after this, I will probably be ok with it.

    but that's not why I am here.... Loki is getting a 1/6th scale Hot Toys figure: https://www.facebook.com/pg/hottoys/...55348511727344

  3. #4083
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    It's gorgeous.

  4. #4084
    Extraordinary Member Raye's Avatar
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    Right? I kinda want it (and the Thor one) but Hot toys figures are usually pretty expensive

  5. #4085
    Extraordinary Member Raye's Avatar
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    I was thinking about Dr Strange. And how we couldn't quite figure out why Loki did what he did. Yeah, fixing magic and all, but I don't think he needed to be the Sorcerer Supreme to use that spell (though it certainly would have made finding it easier) and then once he'd done it, he seemed as if he was going to keep it. Why, if he'd already achieved what he wanted? Just to not be found out? Seems like a pretty minor reason... to give himself a new role? undermined by how he achieved it... But it hit me, and it's so obvious. To try and stop Damnation. (among other things) We got a major hint that he is working with future knowledge immediately afterward, with him warning Strange about things, including Damnation, which was mentioned specifically. (also, got hints that he is trying to alter the bad future when he sicced Thor on the frost giants earlier in the arc. At the time we assumed he knew about them because of Malekith, and that still may be the case, but it is also possible he knew from the future) So we know Damnation occurred in the bad future, which means Loki was not it's cause by pushing Strange, he would have done it himself anyway. So what's a good way to try and prevent it? Make sure Strange wasn't in a position to do it in the first place by stealing his title. I mean, think about it. if Loki hadn't been found out, would Mephisto be on the verge of conquering the world right now? no, he wouldn't. Hell, he may have been so desperate to find the spell not to reboot magic for altruistic reasons, but to keep Strange from doing it, because of what it led to in the bad future. No rebooting magic, he's not powerful enough to raise Vegas, and even if he was, if he wasn't the Sorcerer Supreme, he may not have done it. And simply warning Strange probably would not have worked.

    Loki's problem is that he has the Cassandra thing going on, due to him being a notorious liar and bad guy. He can warn everyone to not do the things that lead to the shitty future, but he wouldn't be believed. If he was too specific, 'don't go to Las Vegas and try and raise it up' Strange could think it was a ploy to get him to NOT do that. So Loki can't be very specific with pretty much anyone. If Loki doesn't want you do do something, a lot of people will just do it because they assume he is trying to trick them, if Loki of all characters doesn't want them to do something, that is a good reason in many people's minds to DO it. Especially in a case like this where it kinda seems like it is a good thing to do. So he's got to get a bit more.... hands on.

    Unfortunately for Loki, not to mention Vegas and the rest of the world, fate is resilient, especially when he is involved. I think we may have a case of Ontological Inertia on our hands. We keep seeing Loki trying to alter the future and it just... doesn't work. Things snap back into place no matter what he does. Because if you try and and change events, fate will try and find a way to get back on course. Very much in line with Loki's character since JIM, though very sad if he can't fix things, since not only is he doomed to be bound by fate and become the bad guy again, the world and Asgard is doomed to end up as the King Thor future. In this case, Strange unleashing the Void forced Loki's hand, he had to use the spell in order to fight it, and as a result Strange was re-powered. But if he could hang on to the title for at least a while longer, Strange still may not have done what he did. But Zelma spoiled that, so in the end, the best he could do was try and warn Strange. Which didn't work. Strange fucking did it anyway. Now the best Loki can hope for is that the outcome can be altered. Problem is, we don't know what the outcome originally was, so have no way of knowing if he was successful, unless he says something. We can only assume that it in part helped lead to the world's destruction. I don't think it is one big catastrophic event that leads to the King Thor future, I think it is a chain of events, of which Damnation is one. If Loki can stop even one thing in the chain, the bad future may be averted. But it will be tough, because fate is like, 'nope, this is gonna happen, no matter how you try and stop it.' This may be the reason the Norns had to be removed from the picture in Thor.

    *edited to add - before anyone says it, I know the past has been changed in the MU with relative ease before. BUT, this still works for the same reason King Loki can still exist even though he would be a paradox otherwise: the multiverse. In the MU, since they are averting bad futures every other week, canonically what is happening is that new universes are fracturing off when something gets changed. And since the change that was made is what caused the splinter, technically the MU switches universes to the new one, but it all happens seamlessly so you'd never know we just switched entire universes across the entire line when they fixed things in Days of Future Past or whatever else. This is actually probably part of the reason editorial didn't like '616' as a designation for the main universe. We technically left behind 616 long ago. They did not change the future so much as create an alternate future. All the bad futures STILL EXIST in the multiverse... but in a past state, if we assume time is constant across the multiverse. They are predestined to become the bad future that was averted in the newly minted universe. So what does that mean for the poor sap still stuck in the prime universe? It would still be bound by the future history that they sought to change, and thus be impossible to change itself, because it HAS to get back to the OML future, Age of Apocalypse, Days of Future Past.... or King Thor. Loki could have already created an alternate universe where he remains 'Sorcerer Supreme' and everything is peachy forever after, we just aren't following that universe, we are stuck in the prime universe that is unable to change. But, Loki said in Infinity Countdown (I am going to operate under the assumption here that Duggan is on board with the big picture even if he gets the voice wrong) that things were different behind the scenes since Secret Wars. What if time travel rules have changed? what if the universe no longer fractures into alternates, but the ontological inertia is still going strong?
    Last edited by Raye; 03-19-2018 at 04:15 AM.

  6. #4086
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    Lots of comments to catch up on

    Won't get too much into the whole Loki vs Kid Loki thing except to say that, while I think Thor spoke in the heat of the moment about AoA Loki not being his 'real' brother, I would regard them as both being his siblings. And I'd be pissed if one of my siblings killed another one. Anyways, although I do want him and Thor to get along again, it makes sense from both a Watsonian and a Doylist perspective why they're not. From the first, he does have plenty of reason to be mad at Loki -- aside from the Kid!Loki thing, his stabbing of Frejya won't have endeared him to his brother, even if he had sympathetic reasons for doing so...which Odinson remains unaware of. From the latter, having Thor distrust him now means that the plot isn't more easily resolved by his brother listening to Loki's warnings. Even if no one else believed Loki, having Thor on his side is a sizeable power swing. We've also seen Thor progress during Jason's run (depression during the last arc notwithstanding) into someone who will occasionally take a step back before he acts, which would have been an even greater help to Loki. It also really hammers home for Loki how much he's screwed himself over by being a villain for so long (though kind of in a sad way, since he wants to change). Anyways, I think Thor may end up being one of the least willing to trust Loki (it's really hard to get him to change his opinion on something, once it's set; see: him trusting Loki all those years, ironically). However, I do think (and really hope) that they'll mend things. I think Loki's progressed far enough that he'd be willing to put his own life on the line if he thought it would fully stop everything that's going to happen. Though I don't want a 'redemption equals death' (or even think he needs one, at this point), I'm betting his brother will re-evaluate his opinion if Loki does do something along those lines.

    I was thinking he wouldn't show up in Doctor Strange, but now that they've introduced the idea, I really hope he does. Raye is right in saying that it would be totally in keeping with his character to have illusion'ed Mephisto's illusion. That, and he warned Strange, and seems to be actively trying to stop bad futures...I agree that he probably was trying to stop Damnation by taking over as Sorcerer Supreme, though I think it might have gone beyond just that into whatever tie in the role has with the final host. Just stopping Damnation would be a good enough reason, in a rather anti-hero kind of way (though I'm not sure what other choices he had), but still...Really, it comes back to me wishing that he ends up as Sorcerer Supreme for reals, but I do wonder if they introduced the idea to show he'd actually do a good job so he could take it over while Strange goes to space. In fact, Strange might even end up in favor of Loki taking it over if Loki helps him out in Vegas. That, and the wonkiness with the timeline (although one of the Thor issues did reference the past arc of Strange), along with how the new Strange book dropped the 'Sorcerer Supreme'...I still think I might just be too hopeful, but I no longer think it's crazy. Especially not if Strange ends up weak again, and takes Loki's fore-warnings about the Celestials to heart (this time, after having seen what happened with Damnation). Though he's not Sorcerer Supreme in the infinity stuff, and I just realized how fan-girlish I sound re-reading the above paragraph, so who knows?

    Loki does seem to have it hard when it comes to Ontological Inertia, but he's also up against terrifying threats. The only thing that probably could have been avoided is Damnation. We've seen bad futures from what's happening in Thanos, we've been warned that the War of the Realms is serious business, even though we don't have all the details (but Malekith got rid of fate and is literally trying to conquer Hel--his threat level has been going haywire), we have whatever it is with the final host...basically, it seems like there are three possible things that could each individually spell the end of the world, or close (with Damnation, it comes out to four, although we at least know Strange probably beats Mephisto because the heroes were all shown dead in the future fighting Thanos, so I mean, that's good, right?). To face all of this is a gargantuan task, even if Loki knows what's coming. Especially as no one will trust him.

    The idea that he went along with Malekith until Malekith got rid of the Norns does, I think, have merit. Not only on its own, but also if we follow the hypothesis that he was acting as he was in GotG because he knew doing so would have a favorable outcome. Given how horrible the future has been shown to be, I'm left questioning the morality of not intervening to save the Norns. That, and Karnilla ended up with Balder, so I don't think she minds too much, but I feel that's shaky moral ground. I'd say Loki's still definitely an anti-hero at this point, but at least his intentions seem to be good.

    Also, anyone else going crazy to hear which books Marvel is releasing as part of its Fresh Start initiative? I am hoping for a Donny Cates take on Loki, but, again, I don't want to get my hopes up too high.
    Last edited by Riimi; 03-19-2018 at 07:05 PM.

  7. #4087
    Extraordinary Member Raye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riimi View Post
    Lots of comments to catch up on

    Anyways, I think Thor may end up being one of the least willing to trust Loki (it's really hard to get him to change his opinion on something, once it's set; see: him trusting Loki all those years, ironically). However, I do think (and really hope) that they'll mend things. I think Loki's progressed far enough that he'd be willing to put his own life on the line if he thought it would fully stop everything that's going to happen. Though I don't want a 'redemption equals death' (or even think he needs one, at this point), I'm betting his brother will re-evaluate his opinion if Loki does do something along those lines.
    I totally understand Thor being mad, but it was as though he was seeing Kid Loki as a replacement brother rather than an additional one, which is what I had issue with, and why i say it's more on him to repair things. but yeah, Thor is a stubborn sort, so it will be hard. We know Loki will be showing up in Avengers though, so they will be in the same vicinity during that, at least. How well it goes remains to be seen...

    I was thinking he wouldn't show up in Doctor Strange, but now that they've introduced the idea, I really hope he does. Raye is right in saying that it would be totally in keeping with his character to have illusion'ed Mephisto's illusion. That, and he warned Strange, and seems to be actively trying to stop bad futures...I agree that he probably was trying to stop Damnation by taking over as Sorcerer Supreme, though I think it might have gone beyond just that into whatever tie in the role has with the final host. Just stopping Damnation would be a good enough reason, in a rather anti-hero kind of way (though I'm not sure what other choices he had), but still...Really, it comes back to me wishing that he ends up as Sorcerer Supreme for reals, but I do wonder if they introduced the idea to show he'd actually do a good job so he could take it over while Strange goes to space. In fact, Strange might even end up in favor of Loki taking it over if Loki helps him out in Vegas. That, and the wonkiness with the timeline (although one of the Thor issues did reference the past arc of Strange), along with how the new Strange book dropped the 'Sorcerer Supreme'...I still think I might just be too hopeful, but I no longer think it's crazy. Especially not if Strange ends up weak again, and takes Loki's fore-warnings about the Celestials to heart (this time, after having seen what happened with Damnation). Though he's not Sorcerer Supreme in the infinity stuff, and I just realized how fan-girlish I sound re-reading the above paragraph, so who knows?
    You're right, the Avengers and Final Host thing might have played into his motivations as well. Though, since that roster was released and the one to one relationship to the original team is quite shaky in most cases, it falls apart a bit. Thor, Black Panther, Doctor Strange and Ghost Rider could be considered direct legacies of the original. But Strange has already been stated to be temporary, and the others are not legacies of the original members. Loki could have used that that as an additional 'in' though.

    As for Damnation, a preview for issue 3 was released and the extra demons that Loki could have been hiding among are not present, though they could just be off-panel. But Bats does seem to see something odd about the Strange GR. Given that it was Loki that resurrected Bats as a ghost (and the character page makes a point of mentioning it) it is possible Bats may be able to seehim, i guess? I guess we will see in a few days if Loki being there under an illusion it holds up.

    Loki does seem to have it hard when it comes to Ontological Inertia, but he's also up against terrifying threats. The only thing that probably could have been avoided is Damnation. We've seen bad futures from what's happening in Thanos, we've been warned that the War of the Realms is serious business, even though we don't have all the details (but Malekith got rid of fate and is literally trying to conquer Hel--his threat level has been going haywire), we have whatever it is with the final host...basically, it seems like there are three possible things that could each individually spell the end of the world, or close (with Damnation, it comes out to four, although we at least know Strange probably beats Mephisto because the heroes were all shown dead in the future fighting Thanos, so I mean, that's good, right?). To face all of this is a gargantuan task, even if Loki knows what's coming. Especially as no one will trust him.

    The idea that he went along with Malekith until Malekith got rid of the Norns does, I think, have merit. Not only on its own, but also if we follow the hypothesis that he was acting as he was in GotG because he knew doing so would have a favorable outcome. Given how horrible the future has been shown to be, I'm left questioning the morality of not intervening to save the Norns. That, and Karnilla ended up with Balder, so I don't think she minds too much, but I feel that's shaky moral ground. I'd say Loki's still definitely an anti-hero at this point, but at least his intentions seem to be good.
    Yeah, Damnation was one of the few things that could have been avoided entirely, so it makes sense to try and stop it before it can start. The Final Host thing has been brewing in the background for a million years, and while Loki can keep an eye on it, and try and influence it's outcome, it's doubtful he can prevent it from happening. The Infinity Gems reappearing is beyond his control, though he can influence how the search for them goes, and we've seen him doing that, though we don't know his specific goal there. the iffy one is The War of the Realms. while it did technically start before this got rolling with Loki, it one confuses me since it seems like he has let many opportunities slip by to just, you know, assassinate Malekith. (since, though he's better, I think Loki is and will always likely be far away from the 'all life is sacred' position, I think he'd have no qualms about killing when he deemed it necessary) But yeah, the Norns thing could make some sense of that, though it would not really explain Laufey and why he not only hasn't killed him, he actually saved his life.

    Also, anyone else going crazy to hear which books Marvel is releasing as part of its Fresh Start initiative? I am hoping for a Donny Cates take on Loki, but, again, I don't want to get my hopes up too high.
    Yeah, I really expected more announcements after they got rolling, it started out at about one a day, but it feels like they petered out before everything is out there. I know some books won't be getting a 'fresh start' relaunch, like the core X books, but still.

    I said in another thread that it does feel like a Midnight Sons book will spin out of Damnation. they created this cool team of Wong, Dr Voodoo, Iron Fist, Moon Knight, Blade, Elsa Bloodstone Ghost Rider, Man Thing, and it feels like kind of a waste if it doesn't spin into a team. We also have Infinity Watch as a FCBD title, which was not announced with the Fresh Start announcements. Though it's unclear if that is part of the Infinity Countdown event, as a mini, or if it will be an ongoing. But it feels like it will be the replacement for Guardians of the Galaxy to me. Loki could be a part of the Infinity Watch, but since Logan already gave his stone away, I am no longer counting on that cover to predict who will be on the team.

    I really hope for a Loki book as well. If he is in as deep as he appears with all these stories, it feels like he needs some place to explain just what the hell he is doing.

  8. #4088
    Incredible Member kaimaciel's Avatar
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    https://www.newsarama.com/39134-marv...e=notification

    "THOR #2
    JASON AARON (W) • MIKE DEL MUNDO (A/C)
    YOUNG GUN VARIANT COVER BY RUSSELL DAUTERMAN
    VARIANT COVER BY MIKE DEODATO JR.
    CONNECTING HAMMER VARIANT COVER BY JAMES HARREN (2 OF 5)
    REUNION FROM HEL!
    The sons of Odin ride again! In the land of the dead, Thor is reunited with his long-lost brother, Balder, the King of Hel, just in time to face the Fire Goblin armies of the Queen of Cinders, as the War of the Realms continues to burn its way across all creation. Plus Loki! Thori the Hel-hound! Skurge with a really big gun! Monster trucks! And more!
    "

    I am both excited and terrifed about this issue. God, I wish this was the Odinson brothers comic I have been waiting for. And then, there's this...

    AVENGERS #3
    JASON AARON (W) • ED MCGUINNESS (A/C)
    VARIANT COVER BY ARTHUR ADAMS
    THE FINAL HOST PART 3 FROM JASON AARON AND ED MCGUINNESS!
    Fate has once again brought together Earth’s Mightiest Heroes to face their greatest challenge yet. But with Captain America now taken prisoner by Loki, what hope do these new Avengers have to defeat the Final Host of Dark Celestials? And what startling secrets are still left to be uncovered that will rewrite everything we know about the origin of the Marvel Universe?


    Shoot... Really, Aaron? We're doing this AGAIN?
    Last edited by kaimaciel; 03-20-2018 at 12:44 PM.

  9. #4089

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    So, Avengers #3...

    ...yeah, sure, ok. Whatever, the situation could easily be less dastardly than it seems in the actual comic, but I'm still fatigued that this is yet another story where he's being set up a villain. At least Squirrel Girl was a nice break from that...

    Edit: whoops ninja'd. edited to save space.
    Last edited by dr4conianlaw; 03-20-2018 at 12:39 PM.

  10. #4090
    Extraordinary Member Raye's Avatar
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    It's weird because Jason Aaron is writing both, and Thor's solicit plus cover seem to indicate a sons of Odin Mad Max-ish adventure and looks like it could be super fun.



    I mean look at that, it's glorious, it's everything I've been hoping for. Sons of Odin doing badass adventures. ok, I didn't know I was hoping for monster trucks crushing frost giants until just now, but now that I see it, I mean, obviously it's awesome. though, what exactly is Balder standing on, and who the hell is driving...? also, I do enjoy the new Iron Maiden-esque logo \m/ (though, if it were me, i would have either taken the top bit off the R, or added a slanty bit to the top of the H, so the framing of the O was symmetrical)

    And then...


    :-/
    And it's like, the two seem at odds with each other, even though Aaron is writing both so he obviously knows what's going on in Thor and vice versa. But I guess it is totally possible it's another case of him doing something bad-ish for a good purpose. (also Loki's got some seriously wonky anatomy going on there)

    edited to add - but I would just like to remind everyone that Marvel Now Point One h ad this cover:



    and of course, that was Agent of Asgard, so not all is lost. It's jut they are both homages, (though of what specifically slips my mind at the moment)
    Last edited by Raye; 03-20-2018 at 03:39 PM.

  11. #4091
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    :/ Upset with the avengers solicit. As has been mentioned, doesn't sync well with the thor solicit, but idk. My guess is that Loki tries to warn the avengers, they don't believe him, and he takes Cap in an effort to convince him (because they'll listen to him).

    Edit: Now that I'm not on my phone anymore, I'll definitely say that I think I echo the sentiments displayed by being upset/disappointed by the Avengers solicit but also really freaking stoked by the Thor #2 solicit. I've been wanting Thor and Loki to interact, I've been wanting Loki and Thori to interact, I've even kind of wondered how Balder and Loki would interact with Loki trying to be 'better' (ostensibly). Them fighting off forces bent on invading Hel does tie into something else I was pondering earlier today--what if part of the reason Loki hasn't killed any of the villains is because he didn't want them there, fighting against them? Malekith did, iirc, escape Hel, so the denizens aren't forced to obey Baldur or anything like that. Though, if Loki had killed one of them early enough, I'm not sure Hel would have been invaded in the first place--I guess it kind of depends on how autonomous the Queen of Fire is. Just throwing ideas out there.

    Oh, yeah. And Malekith brought Laufey back from the dead, too. I think that 'simply' killing one of the main big bads won't pose that much of an issue to them. Taking Malekith out would be a big deal, but he's almost surely got contingency plans lined up. Hel, I don't think Loki's really died (besides Kid) without having some sort of contingency set, and Malekith is similarly scheme-y.

    The fact that Loki and Thor are co-operating (at least enough to fight together, albeit it may be reluctantly on Thor's part) does make me more hopeful that he shows up sooner rather than later again in that book. Though that will bring in even more dissonance with the Avengers solicit. Could even be that we're supposed to think what the consensus here kind of seems to be, though, that he has some agenda that isn't necessarily sinister.

    Edit Edit: Loki has to know that capturing Captain America, of all people, isn't really good optics.
    Last edited by Riimi; 03-20-2018 at 05:54 PM.

  12. #4092
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    Loki does have a plan with that Celestrial Host. So I assume his kidnapping Cap probably has to do with him trying to keep that plan on schedule and the Avengers are screwing that up, especially since so many of them are part of the "original" Avengers or whatever Aaron has going on. So I imagine that makes it a little dangerous to have them in play.

    Now, since Aaron is writing both books, there's also the chance that one of those books comes out before the other that month-or in the same week-and that the timing is intentionally different. Like we're supposed to read the Avengers book first and that leads into Thor sort of trusting Loki or something.

    Or at least this is a place where Thor sort of has to deal with Loki.

    Loki's problem here is that the guy has one too many schemes going at once. Malekith only has his One Big Evil Plan, which while it does require many little plans, it's still ultimately one goal. Loki might have one larger goal in mind-Save the World-but it has tons of similarly large plans involved and little plans. Plus, no one trusts Loki and it can be assumed that Laufey and Malekith plan on offing him sooner rather than later.

  13. #4093
    Extraordinary Member Raye's Avatar
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    Yeah, I don't know the specific release dates, but it is quite possible events in Avengers lead to events in Thor that month.

    Quote Originally Posted by Riimi View Post

    The fact that Loki and Thor are co-operating (at least enough to fight together, albeit it may be reluctantly on Thor's part) does make me more hopeful that he shows up sooner rather than later again in that book. Though that will bring in even more dissonance with the Avengers solicit. Could even be that we're supposed to think what the consensus here kind of seems to be, though, that he has some agenda that isn't necessarily sinister.
    I'm actually kinda getting the feeling it's the status quo of the moment, and it won't just be Loki showing up for an issue or two here and there any more. At least for an arc or two. I have doubts Thor, Loki, Balder (and Skurge? even tho he's not on the cover? is he the mystery driver?) are gonna get in a monster truck for one issue and then just go their separate ways. It feels as though finding these scattered artifacts is a group effort. This sounds like the beginning of an arc, basically, not a one-off.

    I am really, really hoping, between the logo, the premise of the issue, and the art, that it will basically be this in comic form:



    plus:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7woW7DmnR0E (it will only let me embed one )

    Each chapter of Aaron's Thor story has had a different feel to it, and at the moment, the vibe i am getting from this chapter, from what we have seen so far, I'd just describe it as 'metal as ****' Everything from the logo to the art, to the premise, it just oozes a big, bombastic, aggressive, metal feel. And I fully support this, given how much metal loves it's viking imagery. (the fact that Scandinavia produces a WHOLE LOT of metal bands compared to the rest of the world contributes to this, I am sure. Amon Amarth up there is Swedish, and Turisas is Finnish, for isntance. But this goes way back to Led Zeppelin's Immigrant Song, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, etc.)

    Edit Edit: Loki has to know that capturing Captain America, of all people, isn't really good optics.
    No, no it's not. But I suspect he cares little about how things look, given the things he has been doing in Thor.
    Last edited by Raye; 03-20-2018 at 10:49 PM.

  14. #4094
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    Raye, I finally really got to your post about time travel in the MU and I think you bring up an interesting point about how different the rules of multiverses and different universes could be. I'm sure Reed and Company did the best they could with putting things back together, but the fact is, things are already screwy with the Infinity Stones and they even messed up with putting some people back to where they were supposed to be, as seen in Jessisa Jones.

    Loki would actually have an advantage over most people in the MU because he's at least very aware of Secret Wars and likely even understands how the multiverse works. However, for him to really take advantage of this, he would still have to be God of Stories, which I know we have some disagreements about this, but I think all signs point to this still applying to him. It's seemingly why he's so obsessed with the Soul Stone and only the Soul Stone. He doesn't need to teleport, time travel isn't a problem for him, he's strong enough, etc. But as we've said before, having the power to essentially trap someone's story in a suped up USB stick? Now that would be really useful for a god who has a total understanding of stories and the underlying "story" of the universe.

  15. #4095
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    Couple more things. First, I was still obsessing over the Avengers solicit (because of course I was) when I remembered it said something about the Avengers learning the truth about the world. This could be unrelated to Loki -- they could learn from some other external factor -- but Loki definitely knows this info, so I think it is more likely that he's trying to just get them to listen to him.

    The big idea I was pondering--this one is more of a crazy theory(tm)...So, we've talked a bit about how Loki might have absorbed King Loki's memories, which I still think is a valid theory. However, the level of knowledge Loki appears to have about certain actions causing certain things, as well as the sheer number of bad futures he appears to be fighting (I think Rosenbunse mentioned something similar in one of their posts about why they didn't agree with the memory theory) made me wonder if it's more complex than that. The only problem with this theory is that it does make him kind of OP, which is something I've consistently expressed concerns about.

    Simply put, what if this isn't his first time trying to prevent everything? We know he's a time-traveler, which has always raised the question of why he hasn't pushed the reset button until everything's gone his way. It's something I've always kind of head-cannon'ed as him being able to do only every once in a while (game-mechanics wise, as having a horrendously long cooldown), and maybe only once per timeframe. What if something about the new universe has made it easier for him to time-travel, somehow? While being able to timetravel indefinitely usually makes for a low-threat sort of scenario, if the scenario is so bad that multiple timeline resets can't fix it, it becomes a compelling plotline. If this is the case, it would explain how he knows so many little intricacies that are hard to explain with a single set of memories. My thought here is that he saved the world from one ending, only for it to get destroyed/whatever by something else, took care of both of those, then saw another bad future caused by yet another threat, etc. In between, of course, maybe failing a few times to stop the threat of what he was working on, and it would become harder and harder the more he tried to take on. This could also explain why he hasn't taken some of the more seemingly obvious solutions to problems (ie, just killing Malekith) -- he's already tried that, and it didn't work. It could also explain some of his desperation and the lengths he's willing to go to.

    The only way I'd be okay with this, granted, is if it was worked in such a way that this ability was reset back to normal (ie, rare usage) once the plotline was resolved.

    On a related, but slightly different note, I was wondering if the real reason he was putting so much effort into finding the soul stone was because he knew Ultron would end up with it. Though we've seen a bad future with Thanos winning, the solicits indicate that Ultron is going to be another huge threat. Him having even a single stone makes another variation of a bad future possible.

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