Loki Appreciation 2018

[Darkspellmaster]

Since he is the god/dess of stories now, I would think that he could, at any point, write in a version of himself into the story and then play it up so that he could know what was going on. Hobo loki could very well be a extension of him. Gwydion would be an interesting thing too, given that he was used in various books -Chronicles of Pyradain I keep thinking of -and Loki would probably fit right in with the idea of the Celtic worlds Gods.

I'd love to see a thor and loki team up book, I think it would be a lot of fun, though I have to wonder about his relationship with Jane, would be interesting if she became one of the few to actually ally herself with him later on and know what he's up to with the Dark Council. Will he kill Laufy, maybe, or he may turn the others against him. I could see him pulling that off too as a means of slowly pulling them apart by the seams.

[Raye]

If he could be the basis for all or at least some tricksters in other mythologies, that could be interesting. Some parts of Marvel continuity support this, like Gaea being present in many different pantheons under different names. (Though she goes by Gaea now, in the Norse pantheon she was going by Jord until her connection to the Greek pantheon via her Gaea persona was retconned in) but she is an elder goddess, pre-dating Odin or even Bor, and I always just thought it was a thing for the elder gods, not any of the younger ones. Also, we know for absolute certain that at the very least the Greek, Aztek and Egyptian pantheons exists totally separate from the Norse pantheon, and Jason Aaron himself introduced some other from other pantheons, like an unnamd First Nations god, and a Slavic god, I'd have to look up which one specifically, during the God Butcher arc. But it could also be that certain archetypes within the pantheons share a deeper connection and can exist simultaneously while still being aspects of a single idea and thus be connected. So like Loki, Coyote, Gwydion etc. are all facets of something deeper. And maybe Thor and other thunder/lightning/fire type deities have something similar going on. Like, there are some very obvious smilarities between Thor and Zeus, and then you throw in lesser known gods like the Finnish Ukko, a god of the sky and thunder who carried a big hammer/axe* and it begins to fit together.

*(it was actually a strange type of axe that sort of looked like a boat, and kind of filled the function of both hammer and axe, it's actually very similar to a pickaxe, or one mode of the modern military shovel axe thing. It's the same reason they made Ultimate Thor's Mjolnir both an axe and a hammer, even though the shape is completely different, his hammer was thought to be similar and is why mythological Mjolnir occasionally waffles between being described as an axe and a hammer, though usually described as a hammer. And is probably why Aaron made 616 Thor's alternate weapon Jarnbjorn an axe rather than a sword or a different hammer. If you look at the picture, you can see that Jarnbjorn actually has a sort of similar shape, but flattened. sorta.)

[Raye]

No comments on the new issue? Whaaaaaat?! It was great, Loki was alternately hilarious and badass, and it kinda broke the fourth wall to praise Gillen and Ewing, like Aaron going "I loved those stories too. Not going to undo/ignore them"

But yeah, this is our first really good look at Aaron's Loki and the voice he has planned for him, an I liked it

[Riimi]

No comments on the new issue? Whaaaaaat?! It was great, Loki was alternately hilarious and badass, and it kinda broke the fourth wall to praise Gillen and Ewing, like Aaron going "I loved those stories too. Not going to undo/ignore them"

But yeah, this is our first really good look at Aaron's Loki and the voice he has planned for him, an I liked it

It was a good issue. Very nice to see that nod to continuity. The ending seems ominous, given how Loki dealt with the frost giants, as well as as Thor musing over her father's advice (nice tie in to the beginning of the issue, by the way), but I feel like Loki is more or less telling her the truth. It was interesting to see that his attitude seems slightly more respectful towards her than towards his father (not surprising that he would be disrespectful towards the latter, but he was actually fairly polite to her...for a moment)--I wonder if that's an affectation to try to convince her, or genuine? I'd actually lean towards genuine, as he didn't bother to mask his snark when trying to convince Laufey. Also, good on him for appearing not to care what his birth father thinks of him now. I know there was some discussion here about whether it would be real or faked, and although he may care what some people think of him, I really do think he's decided Laufey's not one of them. And focusing on him overmuch would distract him from properly dealing with the other members of the council (especially Malekith, who appears to be pulling the strings).

[Darkspellmaster]

Haven't gone and gotten it yet. Need to put a new list up for my pull list.

Mighty thor will be on there, along with several other books, but I have to figure out which ones I want.

Raye great points on the various archetypes that Loki represents. It's an interesting thing given that he has had meetings with other pantheons and worked with them, all the way back to the days when he first showed up in Venus.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is being genuine with Jane, given that he probably doesn't have as deep a history with her that he does the others, as well as he can make a new start with her unlike with other members from Asguard.

[Raye]

Well, you definitely need to read it. Here is the kinda-sorta fourth wall breaking panel, which i think most people here will get a kick out of:



It is perfectly consistent to how Agent of Asgard ended, and basically is Aaron saying that he thinks those stories are great. So I think we really don't have to worry about what Aaron will do with him. Will it be a little different than what came before? (Aaron's Loki definitely seems to be more snarky than Ewing's) of course, both due to how Agent of Asgard ended, and the fact that it is a different writer so the voice will come out a bit differently. but the voice for Loki differed between Gillen and Ewing too, but the core was the same so it was fine.

And i do think he is being genuine with Jane. He's probably being the most honest character on the Dark Council, despite him trying to trick them. The Dark Council keeps talking about how they can't trust him, as they openly talk about how they will betray him. Then you read Illuminati and it's looking like Malekith is planning on backstabbing Dario (presumably so he does not have to share rulership of all the realms. Dario wants land and power, the same thing Malekith wants, Enchantress just wants Odinson) with the help of Enchantress. They talk like Loki is the one not to be trusted, but they are ALL planning on back stabbing one another. I think he knows they plan to backstab him, but he is somehow going to work with that. He apparently has a plan to save the remaining elves, Jane and himself, presumably in a manner that makes it look like he succeeded in killing Jane, or.... something. It's just a matter of if Jane will trust him enough to let him do it. but if he 'dies' as well during this attempt, I wonder what he stands to gain fro it? He must gain something from this elaborate plan, he's a better person now but he's still not exactly what you'd call altruistic.


As for the Venus thing, I really don't think that counts. I am frankly baffled why it keeps getting listed in his history on websites, it was obviously a completely different version of the character. Different appearance, (he had red hair!) different history, (not Odin's son) nothing about him was the same except that they were both inspired by the same source material. Just because it was printed by Marvel (well, I guess it was Timely or something at the time) doesn't mean it's necessarily canon. But... I suppose if something like different aspects showing up in different pantheons happens, it could be retconned into being part of his continuity in a weird way. But anyway, he and Thor both have worked with the Greek pantheon before either way even if you ignore that. But his counterpart in the Greek pantheon would be Hermes, maybe Prometheus or Eris.

[gwangung]

And i do think he is being genuine with Jane. He's probably being the most honest character on the Dark Council, despite him trying to trick them. The Dark Council keeps talking about how they can't trust him, as they openly talk about how they will betray him. Then you read Illuminati and it's looking like Malekith is planning on backstabbing Dario (presumably so he does not have to share rulership of all the realms. Dario wants land and power, the same thing Malekith wants, Enchantress just wants Odinson) with the help of Enchantress. They talk like Loki is the one not to be trusted, but they are ALL planning on back stabbing one another. I think he knows they plan to backstab him, but he is somehow going to work with that. He apparently has a plan to save the remaining elves, Jane and himself, presumably in a manner that makes it look like he succeeded in killing Jane, or.... something. It's just a matter of if Jane will trust him enough to let him do it. but if he 'dies' as well during this attempt, I wonder what he stands to gain fro it? He must gain something from this elaborate plan, he's a better person now but he's still not exactly what you'd call altruistic.

That's an interesting question. I wonder if it's simply because...he can? I mean attempting to make mischief, save the elves, play with Thor while all the time making it seem the Dark Council gets what it wants....that's a fair amount of entertainment value there for Loki....

[cosmicjoke21]

That's an interesting question. I wonder if it's simply because...he can? I mean attempting to make mischief, save the elves, play with Thor while all the time making it seem the Dark Council gets what it wants....that's a fair amount of entertainment value there for Loki....

That seems likely, actually. Loki likes to just screw with the status quo, he likes to turn the tables on whoever thinks they're in a position of power, so I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case at all.

Anyway, Loki was bad-ASS this issue! Man, the way he screwed up those frost giants just by talking to them, this is not the guy you want to mess with. I love that man. And I love how he told Laufey off too. Laufey's a complete dick, the way he talks to and about and treats Loki. I mean, that's his son, and he talks about him like he's worth less than nothing. So Laufey definitely has it coming to him.

I'm actually really digging Loki's look here too. I know people aren't keen on the stubble, but I actually don't think it looks bad. Dauterman's art looks really beautiful, and I love how he draws Loki.

[Darkspellmaster]

All really great points here. While I do think it's likely that he gets fun out of it, I suspect there's more to it then that. Yes Loki has never been, and never will be, the noble one of the family, but I get the sense that he's out for more then just some mischief here. So what would he gain if things go or don't go according to the way he's possibly planning? Well for one thing having Jane as Thor on his side will be leaps and bounds for him as far as allies go. She has the ear of the all-mother and, more importantly, the council of worlds. She can also see where there is trouble in the way they're doing things, and I think he could find a very good working partner in her regarding stopping whatever the Dark Council's plans are, as well as maybe allying her in helping him possibly find Odinson, or even figuring out what Odin is up to. Also there is the issue of his sisters, and Hela. If, and I'm assuming he has some idea what's going down with Angela, he wants Hela back in her post of power, then he may be looking for a way to use what they're doing to further goals on that end. On top of this we have Lauassu (did I spell that right?) possibly being the new fire demon queen that everyone seems to be talking about. Loki, for all intents and purposes could be going after that angle as well, using that to get a favor back from those in power, or to, maybe, help the kid in some way, because let's face it she's got Surt in there and he's not going to be a good influence on her.

I'm guessing it's more the "jane as an ally" thing more than the other two, but we can't count those out. Also if he suspects somethings coming he's going to want the right people working with him rather then against him.

[Shura]

Ok. Just read the book... And it was great, loved the scene between Loki and Lauffey and the nod to Gillen's and Ewing's work, it erased the few doubts I had about his take of Loki, he was funny and baddass, honestly I don't see a big difference in his voice and I think it fits perfectly with how Loki's voice was at the end of AoA (you know without the whole agnst and being more carefree and playful) anyway, it's seems that his existences itself is annoying Lauffey, so I don't think Loki's time with the Dark Council will last very long, but again... They're all planning on backstabbing each others so it's something normal, it kind of funny see them like this, now I want to see the Fire Queen to enter in the game too.
Also, about what could be the plan to stop the war.... The speak a lot about the Queen and the solicits of issue ...4? Said something about Malekith's wedding, so probably is with her. Anyway it doesn't seem to me that Loki is trying something bad with Jane (for now) but she does well not trusting him.

The art is amazing as always, not only Dautterman but Matt Wilson, the colorist, is algo great, the atmosphere in each realm feels so unique and big. (The scene with Heimdall was really cool too btw)
The only thing that kind of distracts me more than the "beard" is that Loki looks a bit too Hiddleston in some pannels (but again, Dc. Strange looked exactly like Benedict Cumberbatch in the first issue) I'm ok with that but they're a bit distracting.

[Raye]

That's an interesting question. I wonder if it's simply because...he can? I mean attempting to make mischief, save the elves, play with Thor while all the time making it seem the Dark Council gets what it wants....that's a fair amount of entertainment value there for Loki....

Seems like a lot of effort (and danger) to go to for entertainment, but... not without precedent for him. He's gone to a lot of trouble just to amuse himself in the past. I just get the feeling there is something more going on though. I just can't figure out exactly what. It could be he wants to embarrass and/or kill Laufey somehow, but he had a chance to kill Laufey this issue and did not take it, though he did tell him off pretty good. I still think the murder of Verity's grandfather could maybe come into play, considering it was Malekith that killed him, but that may be a bit too ancient continuity dependent.

Trying to win Jane as an ally has potential as a motivation. They have worked together before, during Squirrel Girl, but that was before everyone learned who was really inside the body he was wearing. She has a decent reason to have stopped trusting him since that time, based on what she knows about him from all her years with Thor, even if (at least that I recall, not like I have read everything) Loki has never targeted her specifically.

[Darkspellmaster]

Seems like a lot of effort (and danger) to go to for entertainment, but... not without precedent for him. He's gone to a lot of trouble just to amuse himself in the past. I just get the feeling there is something more going on though. I just can't figure out exactly what. It could be he wants to embarrass and/or kill Laufey somehow, but he had a chance to kill Laufey this issue and did not take it, though he did tell him off pretty good. I still think the murder of Verity's grandfather could maybe come into play, considering it was Malekith that killed him, but that may be a bit too ancient continuity dependent.

Trying to win Jane as an ally has potential as a motivation. They have worked together before, during Squirrel Girl, but that was before everyone learned who was really inside the body he was wearing. She has a decent reason to have stopped trusting him since that time, based on what she knows about him from all her years with Thor, even if (at least that I recall, not like I have read everything) Loki has never targeted her specifically.

I don't think it has to do with making Laufey embarrassed, I'm betting it has something to do with Cul and what he might be up to. Though given that Loki is still BFF's with Verity I wouldn't strike it past him to have that as one of the goals to avenge her granddad, but I don't think it's [B]The[B] goal in this case. Connections to Jane though makes sense, she did at one time say, when they first met, that he was good looking, so maybe he's going to want to use that on her to appeal himself. "See I've changed, help me and we can do great things for Asgard together," sort of thing. Malekith taking on the Fire Queen as a bride and holding sway over those lands, that is not a good thing. I'm guessing that she's in charge while Surt is still in the baby. Though could part of the council's plans be to raise Surt from the child? If that's the case then how to stop them from doing so?

[Raye]

Well, as I just said in the Thor 2 discussion, it just dawned on me... they've set it up so that Loki is in a position to grab the throne, and it will actually be the right thing to do. It's like how in Agent of Asgard they created a situation where him being self-serving ended up being good. So it may be that. If he wants to take the throne from Odin, he will need support from Thor. He may need the Dark Council to get him there then betray them at the last minute. We know from the end of Agent of Asgard that this is not something Loki wants, but Odin needs to be removed from power, he's gone insane, and there is no one left with a legit claim to the throne except Loki and Angela to do it because Thor is missing, Freyja is in prison, the new baby is far too young. and Angela would be a terrible choice because she knows so little of Asgard, even if she is *technically* next in line for the throne, and I don't think she cares anyway.

[Riimi]

Well, as I just said in the Thor 2 discussion, it just dawned on me... they've set it up so that Loki is in a position to grab the throne, and it will actually be the right thing to do. It's like how in Agent of Asgard they created a situation where him being self-serving ended up being good. So it may be that. If he wants to take the throne from Odin, he will need support from Thor. He may need the Dark Council to get him there then betray them at the last minute. We know from the end of Agent of Asgard that this is not something Loki wants, but Odin needs to be removed from power, he's gone insane, and there is no one left with a legit claim to the throne except Loki and Angela to do it because Thor is missing, Freyja is in prison, the new baby is far too young. and Angela would be a terrible choice because she knows so little of Asgard, even if she is *technically* next in line for the throne, and I don't think she cares anyway.

Hmmm, I think you're probably right. I had initially ruled out Loki because he said he no longer wants to do it (so taking the throne would actually go somewhat counter to his self-interest), but he probably cares enough about Asgard for that to override his reluctance. Mostly, I just can't see Aaron passing up that opportunity because IRONY.

I still don't know why Loki can't just, I dunno, go find his brother. Even if the warriors three fail, Loki is the devious, sneaky one who I'd expect to know all the good hiding places. Reasons, I expect.

[Raye]

Loki is clever and sneaky, but if even Heimdall can't find him with his ability to see everything, I don't think Thor would have a problem hiding from Loki.

I think Thor may be at old Asgard, but on the other hand, you'd think that would be one of the first places people would look. But Old Asgard must come into play somehow, that's where Ultimate Mjolnir landed. Maybe that's where Loki plans on taking the elf refugees?