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  1. #2986
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riimi View Post
    Yeah, the first part of it was coming from TMT (and then like Raye said, it kinda diverged). Honestly, probably more than half of it was just speculation, it's been quiet here lately so several things have been bouncing around my head but I didn't ever end up making specific posts about said things. Some of it is just an analysis of the MU as a whole (from various different recaps, spoilers and solicits I've read). As an addendum to my last post, the writers also seem to be positioning Loki in an ideal role to help unravel the "Steve as a Nazi" thing and the knot left over from Civil War. After all, he's probably one of the very few characters (who would be concerned) who could see past Steve's reputation, both because of his trickster tendencies and because he wasn't a part of the hero community. If he ends up being a key player in saving Steve, I may have to find a way to slip it into conversation sometime with some of my friends who used to read Marvel and no longer do, just for the fun of seeing their reactions. (Disclaimer: I am probably 5000% wrong. That is a lotta percents).
    I'm not sure if he will have a hand in saving Steve. I just read issue 3 of Captain America's book, and first of all, it was really good, and also, it seems to be setting up Steve breaking himself free. He's defying the Red Skull in some kinda small but important ways (mostly, he's being far more compassionate than Skull wants, and is hiding things from him), so they seem to be playing it as is 'true' personality is resurfacing even through the reality warping. or something. Also, Bucky is caretaking Kobik, so... BUT, if Steve does wreak havoc on SHIELD and the US government, someone will need to deal with that, yes, and Loki would be ideally situated to deal with that.


    I think he's actually being pretty heroic right now. Not enough to lift Mjolnir, because that weapon is super, super picky, but I would probably judge his actions and intents thus far in TMT to be good instead of neutral (not enough info about what he's doing in Vote Loki, so I'm not taking that into account). He did use bad methods, but he was backed into a corner and he's trying to undo what harm he caused. With that said, you do raise a good point about an antidote. I'll shrug about that one, since I don't have a good answer. As far as the rest is concerned so far he's (somewhat ironically, considering all the backstabbing) been pretty self-less. His actions have been more to his detriment than his benefit, and he realized that and still chose to do them. That said, it could just come down to how we prefer to see the character.

    I agree that it was probably him speaking with Nissa, which I hadn't thought of until you pointed it out.

    This issue of TMT, coupled with the last mentioning strange energy signatures, definitely indicate that there's something up with Mjolnir. I hope this is resolved and Jane is able to take point, I think having it be the hammer detracts from her agency. (The other Thor-related speculation I have is whether or not Loki helps find his brother, but this mostly comes from hope and the likely coincidental launch of that new series with all the stuff I talked about in my other post).
    I don't think it's detracting from her agency too much, she still tells it what to do and it obeys. More that it's kinda making up for her lack of experience by guiding her and doing more for her than it did with Odinson. I think it does have a sentience of sorts, and is sort of guiding her down a certain path, possibly altering her thinking a bit when in Thor mode (that is less clear, but she does seem to have a personality shift) but she is still in control.

    Have you ever read Preacher? Not the TV show, which is very different, the original books. Anyway, in it Genesis is this being of immense power, but it lacks a true consciousness, and it seeks out a host, Jesse Custer, to merge with it. Genesis kind of influences Jesse, it gives him power, it provides memories and an understanding of... things. But Jesse is, ultimately, still in control. I kinda see the relationship between Mjolnir and it's wielder as sorta-kinda similar to that. It's just that Odinson wasn't quite aware of how much it was capable of, because he didn't really need as much help as Jane does because he has thousands of years of experience and has innate power separate from the hammer.

    Quote Originally Posted by rpmaluki View Post
    This is very heartbreaking. Loki is stuck between a rock and a very hard place. He's trying stop Malekith but he doesn't have a lot of options. The only thing he could do has basically ostracized him further from his family because they think he tried to kill Frejya. He's more alone now than ever before and we don't know how his brother is going to receive him once he's back but I can hazard a guess and say it won't be with a brotherly hug. This is the most good Loki has ever been and it still makes zero difference to people's perception of him. I love it because it makes him so much more compelling than if he was good and people acknowledged it or if he was bad just as people believed, it doesn't hurt any less however.

    I have a question does it look like he's helping with the transfusion because to me, it looks like his astral projected self is letting the tube pass through his hand to show the reader (on top of Odin ignoring him) that he's not physically there?

    I am curious about Mjolnir and this story around the hammer but like someone else has already said, I doubt they will do away with Jane's agency just to show Mjolnir as more self aware and having free will to choose the one who wields it even if Odinson is worthy (based on the end of SW). If Loki is going to impersonate Thor, it makes sense that it be sickly Jane because he won't be able to lift Thor and therefore won't fool anyone.
    actually, yeah, you're probably right about that, with the tubes.

    and yes, very tragic. Such is the way with Loki, i guess. Judging the solicits, it seems like Jane will be moving on to a new story in Octoberish with the Shi'ar wars, which doesn't seem to have any real connection to the War of the Realms. (the Lords of Midgard at least features characters on Malekith's Dark Council, most notably Dario) so either the War of the Realms is resolved by then, or it's a very long running overarching plot that runs in the background of several arcs. If the War of the Realms is over by then, it could be that Loki's true motivations will be revealed to Asgard, and he can begin to try and regain their trust, specifically that of his family. But I suspect it's more like the latter, where it runs in the background of several arcs, so we may be in for a long wait. But, that doesn't mean they can't learn before the end what he's actually up to. If that is Loki posing as Jane, and helping her, as Riimi said it could be a foot in the door towards gaining her trust. And while Asgard is rushing off to fight a war in space, Odinson looks to be making his way back home, so i think that if Loki shows up anywhere, it will likely be in Unworthy. And yeah, Thor probably will not be happy to see him at first, but i hope they can work things out. They need to reach an understanding that's not built on a big lie, (that this Loki is Kid Loki all grown up) and it will be painful but better in the end.

    Oh, but speaking of the War of the Realms, you all noticed that one of Agger's Roxxon henchmen wants to activate the 'Berserkers' as in Loki's hulked out super soldiers? If that happens next issue, it will me a massive clusterfuck, which, if we are right, could tear Roxxon apart from the inside.

    Quote Originally Posted by sirjustin86 View Post
    Hey folks, quick question for you more knowledgeable Loki fans...!

    I collected the Kid Loki saga from JiM those years ago, and then continued on with the Phantom-Copy Loki in Y.Avengers. I sort of stopped following PC-Loki's adventures when he was aged up a bit and got his own series, as it didn't really keep my interest... I was wondering if there's been any mention of the fact that this Loki is in fact a Copy + Paste of the original Loki, or if it's just accepted that he's Loki now? Also, does he still suffer massive guilt for what he did to Kid Loki? AND (finally), has there been any mention of Kid Loki since? I know characters tend to resurface and die a lot in this medium, and I'd like to cling on to the hope that KL will, one day, return (though it would obviously detract from the tragedy).
    As mentioned above me, that this is Ikol in Kid Loki's skin is addressed, and yes, Loki feels very guilty about what happened, but is trying to make the best of it. Once Thor learned what the real situation was, he was furious with Loki, beat him to a pulp and basically disowned him. So now Loki and Thor are enemies again, but this time it is Thor that is the one that's angry at Loki, so it's kind of backwards from before. with some good cause, granted, but... at the same time Loki just wants them to be friends now, and really is trying to be better.

    And, while i get the need to put labels on Loki's incarnations for the purpose of discussion, and Kid Loki in particular really is a character separate from the others, generally, those are fan constructs to help keep the story straight, and in the books he is just 'Loki', I can't recall any of the characters make a distinction except when it came to Kid Loki. I think the fact that he is a copy and paste is kind of irrelevant to them. He has all the thoughts and memories as the Loki they've known for thousands of years, so to them it doesn't really matter since mentally and personality wise at least he is the same. i mean he's changed, but in the same way any person changes over time.

  2. #2987
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    So many interesting things to consider here. If Loki does win for President, how long would that last, given that the last time anyone was in that position it was Norman, and we know how that worked out. Something to consider too, if the war of the Realms does continue into the space war situation, does that mean that Loki can actively call on the Avengers, and will people try to remove him from office due to mistrust?

    I would think that given Odinson has now had to deal with the idea of being unworthy and probably is going to go through his own trial by fire, he may have some interesting new view point on Loki. Perhaps he can give Loki a fair shake and start to think of him as his brother again. Or maybe Thor can get him to see him that way, given that Jane is probably -eventually -going to learn to trust him some. What has me worried some with all of this, is the line about it being Odin or Cul on the throne. I would think that Jason probably has plans on how to use him but I wonder if Cul could become a potential hazard for Loki later on down the line.

  3. #2988
    Junior Member Shura's Avatar
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    I think that the war with the Shi´ar can tie with the return of Odinson given that he´s in space (btw, where´s Unworthy Thor solicitation? wasn´t it suppose to start inSeptember?)

    Also, it´s good to have a confirmation about of what we already knew but some people may need, the only new detail is that Malekith actually planned to kill Freyja, but I think that after what happened once Odin´s recovered he would be a much better option than Cul (unless he goes full revenge mode or something, you never know with Odin).
    I think that even if Loki has put himself in a bad place he´ll handle it well, but the fact that nobody know why he did that make everything ore difficult because he´s literally alone.
    I´m surprise to see how strong is the poison, it looks a lot like a jump of faith, because if it were easy to heal Malekith would have suspected, what makes me think, did Loki knew that Malekith planned to kill Freyja before or after he backstabbed her?

    I really want to see Loki win and it would be a lot of fun if he´s connected with an Avengers team, but his real intention are still a bit of a mystery, also if he wasn´t disguised as Jane in Vote Loki (didn´t thought about him being Jane in the TMT solicits, that´s a good one), then the artist made a mistake because she didn´t have the hammer when she´s talking with Nisa.
    Last edited by Shura; 07-28-2016 at 03:03 AM.

  4. #2989
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    I think Loki knew beforehand that Malekith planned to kill Freyja but was hoping to find another way to prevent it. That explains his 'you should not have sent me to them' (something similar to that anyway) line as he stabbed her. It wasn't that he was saying sending him had reawoken his evil nature, it was that by sending him he had learned things that were now forcing his hand in stabbing and poisoning her. The situation went pear shaped, whittling away options until he could see only one way to prevent her from being murdered by Malekith.

    Unworthy Thor was among the books announced for the new Marvel Now, but I don't think they are all launching the same month. But it will probably be launching by December, i'd guess. And I guess it could tie into the Shi'ar war, but it's the Collector that has him, not the Shi'ar. In any case, I am looking forward to it. It's got Olivier Coipel and Odinson is back, and I really do think it is the most likely place for Loki to show up on the Asgard side of things if he does not get his own book.

  5. #2990
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
    Bishoujo Loki statue from SDCC!



    look so nice!!

  6. #2991
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    Thank goodness, maybe now people will stop whining about Aaron undoing Loki's character development from Agent of Asgard. first 2 pages of Mighty Thor he flat out said to Freyja that he was acting for the greater good and was trying to SAVE her life. which many of us here had already put together, but man, were some people irate about it....

    Also, he shaved, which will make a lot of people happy.


    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-N...count_id%253D1
    https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-F...count_id%253D1
    I miss verity

  7. #2992
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    I think Loki knew beforehand that Malekith planned to kill Freyja but was hoping to find another way to prevent it. That explains his 'you should not have sent me to them' (something similar to that anyway) line as he stabbed her. It wasn't that he was saying sending him had reawoken his evil nature, it was that by sending him he had learned things that were now forcing his hand in stabbing and poisoning her. The situation went pear shaped, whittling away options until he could see only one way to prevent her from being murdered by Malekith.

    Unworthy Thor was among the books announced for the new Marvel Now, but I don't think they are all launching the same month. But it will probably be launching by December, i'd guess. And I guess it could tie into the Shi'ar war, but it's the Collector that has him, not the Shi'ar. In any case, I am looking forward to it. It's got Olivier Coipel and Odinson is back, and I really do think it is the most likely place for Loki to show up on the Asgard side of things if he does not get his own book.
    Should be interesting to see if he does show up there with Thor. Loki could maybe help him down the road to discovering the reason for becoming Unworthy, though I think they may give him his own title seeing that, if he does win, we're going to have to play with that, and the new movie coming out has him playing a large part in it. So even if not president then, he at least, will have to be working on something to keep that Shi'ar war from devastating Asguard, and then there's the issues with Angela as well. Also missing Verity as well, but I'm not sure she could fit into the story they're telling right now.

    What's interesting is that we're going to get Hela back in the movie coming out, and that would mean we probably will see her pop up in the near future in the stories. I wonder how things are going to be between them now that he's pretty much the God of Stories as well as the god of tricks.

  8. #2993
    Mighty Member Stormcrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raye View Post
    she looks great! I think the nails should be black, tho
    I really hope they change that for the final product, Loki even has black nails as a boy!

  9. #2994
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalethas31 View Post
    I miss verity
    me, too. Not sure why they've just ignored her. I mean, I can understand that she's not going ot be tagging along to Jotunheim and all, but I would at least like some kind of update on her status. Last we saw her she was a ghost, was Loki able to restore her body, or....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspellmaster View Post
    Should be interesting to see if he does show up there with Thor. Loki could maybe help him down the road to discovering the reason for becoming Unworthy, though I think they may give him his own title seeing that, if he does win, we're going to have to play with that, and the new movie coming out has him playing a large part in it. So even if not president then, he at least, will have to be working on something to keep that Shi'ar war from devastating Asguard, and then there's the issues with Angela as well. Also missing Verity as well, but I'm not sure she could fit into the story they're telling right now.
    If he does win, a new solo book would definitely make sense. But I hope if they do, they shift focus back to him directly rather than filtering him through a different character. Unfortunately Vote Loki's sales are not very good though, which is disappointing, and may hurt his chances at a new solo book even if he does win.

    What's interesting is that we're going to get Hela back in the movie coming out, and that would mean we probably will see her pop up in the near future in the stories. I wonder how things are going to be between them now that he's pretty much the God of Stories as well as the god of tricks.
    Hela was shown i that big Thor cover, so she definitely should be popping up there at some point. Having a look at it again, looks like the only characters from that cover so far unaccounted for are Hela, Beta Ray Bill (though i guess he may be in the Shi'ar wars too, or it may be him that helps break Thor out of the Collector's collection.) Angela and Hercules. Though some of the characters, while they have technically appeared, have only appeared in little cameos here and there. But after events of Angela's books, not sure what they will do with Hela. I did not like Queen of Hel, but... it is canon, so... Also not sure what they will o with her and Loki. we now know that Leah grew up to be Hela, but Leah was Kid Loki's friend, not this one. But he did still feel guilty about her in Young Avengers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
    I really hope they change that for the final product, Loki even has black nails as a boy!
    I know, right? I'm not sure if i will actually buy this thing, but if i did, I think i would repaint the nails if they keep them pink.

    The same company that makes these has just announced that they will be doing a male line in the same style, they're starting with Batman characters, beginning with Nightwing, but I hope they do a male Thor and Loki to go with the Lady Loki and Thor statues they just unveiled. I vote for Unworthy Thor and Agent of Asgard or Mighty Thor Loki.

  10. #2995
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    I know vote Loki is not doing well in sales the story is bearable but the art sucks . Issues 2 art was better Loki actually looked like Loki but from the previews of three the art went even further downhill . This had the potential to be a good story but gets derailed by bad art.

  11. #2996
    Astonishing Member Habis's Avatar
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    I wonder how they are going to reconcile Loki being hated for backstabbing and poisoning Freyja with he running for president. I mean, it's not like Jane Foster or Thor Odinson are going to feel deterred because Loki is either president or candidate... Thor will be so pissed that he will destroy everything in his path to Loki, and Jane will be sure that Loki want so be president for nefarious purposes, so she will break the law to prevent him from being president.

    There are also many other Asgardians who may want some words with Loki: Sif, Brunhilde, Balder, the Warriors Three, Heimdall...etc.

    I wonder if by the time Loki runs for president he has already managed to clear everything with the Asgardians...

  12. #2997
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rc1ca View Post
    I know vote Loki is not doing well in sales the story is bearable but the art sucks . Issues 2 art was better Loki actually looked like Loki but from the previews of three the art went even further downhill . This had the potential to be a good story but gets derailed by bad art.
    Yeah, i think i get what they were going for with the look, but it's not really working. If he does get a new ongoing after this, I hope they get another artist.

    but speaking of, preview: http://www.comicbookresources.com/co...el-comics-2016

    the death of the 'Hydra agents' does seem suspicious but I dunno... if Loki wanted them dead so they couldn't talk, why not just kill them outright?

    Quote Originally Posted by Habis View Post
    I wonder how they are going to reconcile Loki being hated for backstabbing and poisoning Freyja with he running for president. I mean, it's not like Jane Foster or Thor Odinson are going to feel deterred because Loki is either president or candidate... Thor will be so pissed that he will destroy everything in his path to Loki, and Jane will be sure that Loki want so be president for nefarious purposes, so she will break the law to prevent him from being president.

    There are also many other Asgardians who may want some words with Loki: Sif, Brunhilde, Balder, the Warriors Three, Heimdall...etc.

    I wonder if by the time Loki runs for president he has already managed to clear everything with the Asgardians...
    I can't see how anything he does in Asgard could affect him running for president. The people of Midgard likely have absolutely no idea about Freyja unless Jane has been going around telling everyone what he did, but it's so far removed from their lives and nothing else he's done seems to matter to them, so I don't think the voters would care even if she was doing that. And Thor is still locked away on the Collector's ship so he can't do anything. and I don't think Jane or anyone else would actually attack him before he was elected. I mean that probably wasn't actually her last issue, but what 'she' said was still true, she can't just attack him without cause. She'd just end up looking like the villain to most people in the country, and the more popular he gets, the bigger the backlash would be. And if he's actually elected then she'd be vilified beyond belief. Aside from Jane, the Asgardians may be so wrapped up in their own problems they may not even realize what Loki is doing. Most Asgardians don't really pay any attention to Midgad at all, even when they were hovering over Broxton they tended to keep to themselves a lot of the time. the ones that do pay attention to Midgard are often villains or just would not care what he was up to.

  13. #2998
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rc1ca View Post
    I know vote Loki is not doing well in sales the story is bearable but the art sucks . Issues 2 art was better Loki actually looked like Loki but from the previews of three the art went even further downhill . This had the potential to be a good story but gets derailed by bad art.
    The artist style I think would be a better fit on a more "mythical" sort of story. This is based more on reality and it's not terrible, but it's not the best either.

    Something was said above about Loki possibly playing Jane Thor, and I think there might be something to that. I was looking at the design and reading the lines she was saying and there are slight, but significant differences. Firstly, Jane's costume has the eyes black out, in all her apperences, including All New Avengers, she's got black eyes on the helmat, this one doesn't have that. Her neck it's covered like normal and there's some odd factors in her skirt. Now, either that's the way the artist draws her, or it's that way for a reason. Then there's the fact of the way she speaks. Jane would never say "Wow you burned him." at least not as Thor. And the sudden use of the door hanger ad, yeah not suspect at all.

    The only thing detracting from this Loki as Jane option is that he has to be himself when he's shifted. That would mean no blonde hair and such, right? So how is he pulling off looking like Jane if that rule still is in play, or was that rule out of play as of following Secret wars?

  14. #2999
    Astonishing Member Raye's Avatar
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    Jane also did not have Mjolnir in that scene at all. That could be chalked up to artist oversight because it wasn't strictly needed for the scene, but considering Jane has the old 60 second rule in effect, it's a pretty big omission. and when asking what Loki had promised Nissa, the way she air quoted "cabinet seat" like it was something she was unfamiliar with was out of character for Jane, Jane knows damn well what a cabinet seat is.

    And Loki has to be himself when shapeshifting physically, but there's nothing saying he can't pose as Thor using an illusion. Loki has used illusions many times to disguise himself as someone else. He did it in the first issue of Vote Loki, even though that was just some random dude, it wasn't 'him' either, he had blond hair and blue (? i'd have to check) eyes.

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    Yes, his eyes were blue then they changed colour, just as his speech changed from normal guy to the old English tone.

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