Loki Appreciation 2018

[Raye]

There doesn't have to be a chance. Loki should just do it casually do it whenever they want to. Loki isssss genderfluid.

yes, but... historically, he does tend to prefer male most of the time, and when taking female form it's nearly always for a reason. Non binary does not necessarily equal straight up 50/50 preference. it can be that, or it can be like 20/80, or any other ratio as long as it's not a total preference for one gender. I think he does generally have a preference for his male form, just based on the character's history. I don't have a problem with Loki taking female form sometimes, but I do think if it's too much it kinda becomes out of character.

[rpmaluki]

I've never read Loki taking a different form just randomly. It almost always is for a purpose. And I do think his default sex is the male form (some may not like that but I'm going with what I have read and seen thus far), if he decided to change and use his female form more often than not this would change my opinion.

[kaimaciel]

I've always thought Loki's male form as his default form (sorry it offends anyone), with occasional switches to female form when he fancies it, kinda like Mystique. Personally, I prefer the male form so I'm happy with that.

Sorry to bring back Avengers Academy again, but I just bought Thor and it's amazing. So far, all his interactions have been with Loki as bonding moments

[Raye]

Ah, awesome! let us know how things go. I could not justify spending that much on him, since i've already spent a bunch on the game, even though (unlike Hulk) I do really want him....

It is nice to have a bit of a break in the game, and just do story quests. I had like one spot left for a building 4x4 or smaller, so I really need that new zone unlocked.

[Tycon]

yes, but... historically, he does tend to prefer male most of the time, and when taking female form it's nearly always for a reason. Non binary does not necessarily equal straight up 50/50 preference. it can be that, or it can be like 20/80, or any other ratio as long as it's not a total preference for one gender. I think he does generally have a preference for his male form, just based on the character's history. I don't have a problem with Loki taking female form sometimes, but I do think if it's too much it kinda becomes out of character.

First, Loki didn't have a reason in AoA. I also never said being non-binary is a 50/50. I simply said that I wanted Loki to change more often. I don't see how that could possibly infer a specific ratio or how that makes Loki OOC. And I could care less what their "default sex" is, they are genderfluid and it would be nice to see Loki change once and awhile. Especially considering their most famous times as a woman were either impersonating their brother's ex or as a member of the Cabal.

[Raye]

I brought up the ratio just because it felt like you were saying that Loki would not care one way or the other which gender they were at any time, which implies a 50/50 preference, when i feel like Loki is like 80-90% male, given his history, so a switch kind of needs to be something special in a way, and it's not just something Dauterman can do just because he feels like it, since because Loki switches relatively rarely, the dialogue would need to change. It's something that needs to be in the script, is all. And yes, Loki had plenty of reasons. The only scene where it was 'just cus' was at the very end of Agent of Asgard, (where Loki was acting extra erratic) other than that, the female form was adopted for assorted reasons ranging from gaining the angel's trust, a potential calculated move to gain female voters, to proving a point. I am not against it ever happening, it's just that for purely selfish reasons i like the male form the best, and it's not an aspect of the character i particularly care about, and I don't want it to get to the point where it's out of character.

[Tycon]

I brought up the ratio just because it felt like you were saying that Loki would not care one way or the other which gender they were at any time, which implies a 50/50 preference, when i feel like Loki is like 80-90% male, given his history, so a switch kind of needs to be something special in a way, and it's not just something Dauterman can do just because he feels like it, since because Loki switches relatively rarely, the dialogue of other characters would need to change. It's something that needs to be in the script, is all. And yes, Loki had plenty of reasons. The only scene where it was 'just cus' was at the very end of Agent of Asgard, (where Loki was acting extra erratic) other than that, the female form was adopted for assorted reasons ranging from gaining the angel's trust, a potential calculated move to gain female voters, to proving a point.

Wait you said Loki had plenty of reasons than said there was one instance where Loki didn't have a reason. Which was the exact instance I brought up. And know I forgot that the dialogue would have to change to accommodate Loki's changed gender.

[Raye]

I did say he "nearly always" had a reason. the one scene is the 'nearly' bit. and as mentioned, Loki WAS acting kinda erratically and bizarre during that scene. It may be that Al Ewing intended for Loki to act like that forever and always afterward, but Jason Aaron reined it way back when he showed up in Mighty Thor, so... it was temporary.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

PICTURE TIME!!!



I went with the classic look. I HATE his MCU look. Although, I pretty much hate all of the MCU looks for all of the characters, except for Iron Man.

I'm actually still mad at how they turned Loki from the sympathetic and well-rounded character he was in the first Thor movie into...the stereotypical tyrannical madman in the first Avengers movie.

[kaimaciel]

Okay, Thor's event is incredibly short (maybe they'll had more stuff later),but it's all related to Loki. Using the (expensive as hell) shards, Loki brings Thor back from the timefog to the Academy. Thor is thrilled to see his brother again, while Loki looks annoyed.

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Basically, Thor never takes anything Loki says seriously, he always thinks he's joking, he's completely oblivious. Loki tells him he hates him and that he wishes he didn't exist and Thor answers "Ah! Brother you're hilarious! You should be a comedian!"

When Thor announces that he wants to bond with his brother, Loki suggests dancing but Thor quickly refutes and tells him they are going to play catch. Loki doesn't want to, because it's a violent sport and Thor is only one who is good at it, but Thor tells him he wasn't even listening to him and they play. Loki throws the ball with his magic, Thor catches it and throws back the ball, sending Loki crashing against a tree. At the end, Loki is all bruised while Thor says how much he loves this game and how it reminds him of battle.

Loki: I'd rather dance...
Thor: Master the dance floor, brother! Father and I are proud you've finally found your true calling.

And that's it. Small but kind of cute, though you can see whyLoki is resentful of his brother, despite how much Thor clearly loves him. Thor is very oblivious and sometimes very self-absorbed, he only hears what he wants to hear, but he adores his little brother and loves spending time with him.

[Raye]

PICTURE TIME!!!

I'm actually still mad at how they turned Loki from the sympathetic and well-rounded character he was in the first Thor movie into...the stereotypical tyrannical madman in the first Avengers movie.

I have seen some theories floated that Loki himself was under control from Thanos, thanks to the mind gem, which does make a certain amount of sense. Thanos had exactly ONE Infinity stone, and he just gives it away? that makes no sense, unless he felt awfully damn confident that stone would be coming back to him, because Loki was just a puppet of his. It's possible that the 'puny god' beatdown snapped him out of the control, but by that time he was in too deep. but this doesn't really explain why he never said anything afterward.

And that's it. Small but kind of cute, though you can see whyLoki is resentful of his brother, despite how much Thor clearly loves him. Thor is very oblivious and sometimes very self-absorbed, he only hears what he wants to hear, but he adores his little brother and loves spending time with him.

hahahaha, that's hilarious. And at least they actually gave Loki some valid reasons to be pissed with Thor. Just as long as he doesn't go too far with it. And to be fair with Thor, a lot of what Loki says really is just bluster. Not EVERYTHING, but... a lot of it.

[rpmaluki]

Loki could say "I hate you some much right now." and Thor's response will be "I love you too brother." without missing a beat, lol. Loki hides behind the hate and Thor sees past the hate but is incapable of addressing his brother's issues probably because they are so different. Thor is very physical and Loki is cerebral and Thor wants to relate to Loki on his level instead of meeting him halfway and Loki gets more petulant because it's like Thor doesn't pay him any attention.

It's funny but sad at the same time. It's basically the symptoms of the problems that destroyed their relationship for years. Hopefully it works out.

[Riimi]

Ok, commenting a bit late on the "gender-fluid" discussion: Personally, I really like this aspect of Loki's character. I understand that not everybody may feel that way, but I don't think that means it would be out of character for Loki to be female more often (or without some "reason"). Honestly, I know it's not what was intended, but it reminds me of people saying it was out of character for Iceman to be gay. Maybe Loki has only been a woman when there's been a "reason" because she was using that as an excuse (especially considering his background). This doesn't mean he (yes, I'm using that pronoun, mostly because I generally don't care to make a huge deal of it, with this being an obvious exception) doesn't identify more as male, but I think there are valid reasons why he could present as female more often than he did before (or just because Loki feels like it). Like, I'd honestly consider myself to be some degree of genderfluid/genderqueer (which is why this aspect is important to me). This mostly comes out in roleplaying or video games, where I play as male characters a good amount of the time. However, lately I haven't been playing a guy as much in my rps because people keep forgetting at the table. They're good people and I don't think they'd have an issue if I told them why it was important to me, but again, I haven't wanted to make a big deal of it (maybe still not entirely comfortable), so I haven't mentioned it and have just started to play females more often. Because honestly, I feel like it's easier to repress it than try to express it and have people refuse to acknowledge it.

Are we going to say that it's OOC for Loki to be bi, because he never expressed same sex attraction in comics until Gillen? (Aside from when she dated Dr. Doom as a woman.) Yeah, that has a decent basis in mythology; so does Loki being female. Saying that it was against the mores to express it? Same goes for non-binary gender identities. Really, I fail to see logically how one is "in-character" and the other isn't. Even then, that's entirely discounting the possibility for characters to change, which has sorta been a pretty big deal for Loki lately.

[Raye]

I get that. It's just that, if they went too far with it, he would kind of cease to be the character I like in some ways. I think they have a fairly good balance right now, that can please a lot of different perspectives. I'm not asking for it to be removed, I just don't want it to overshadow everything else about him.

(also, i would not call that scene with Doom a 'date' exactly. any time a man and woman have dinner together does not make it romantic. Doom has had similar dinners with Namor, and a few others. they weren't on a date, it's just how Doom does business, invite people to his castle and talk things over with dinner. Which is really weird cus until recently he could not actually eat at these dinners due to his mask, but still, it's what he did)

anyway, speaking of dates, in Avengers Academy they are setting up Loki and Black Widow. in a big way. Severely trimmed for length, but this has the important bits, the quest starts with Nat and Jan having some girl bonding time, first they dance, then they spar:







That's up to where i am at now, where BW and Loki are going on a date, though neither one of them will call it that. I still plan on putting him with Union Jack, but this appears to be the official developer sanctioned pairing for Loki for people who do not have Union Jack. At least they are not pushing Enchantress with him just because they're both Asgardian. I see some people on reddit and tumblr that ship them just, ugh, no, AVAC Enchantress is NASTY, I'm not pairing her up with anyone. and she and Loki loathe each other.

[Riimi]

I get that. It's just that, if they went too far with it, he would kind of cease to be the character I like in some ways. I think they have a fairly good balance right now, that can please a lot of different perspectives. I'm not asking for it to be removed, I just don't want it to overshadow everything else about him.

(also, i would not call that scene with Doom a 'date' exactly. any time a man and woman have dinner together does not make it romantic. Doom has had similar dinners with Namor, and a few others. they weren't on a date, it's just how Doom does business, invite people to his castle and talk things over with dinner. Which is really weird cus until recently he could not actually eat at these dinners due to his mask, but still, it's what he did)

anyway, speaking of dates, in Avengers Academy they are setting up Loki and Black Widow. in a big way. Severely trimmed for length, but this has the important bits, the quest starts with Nat and Jan having some girl bonding time, first they dance, then they spar:



That's up to where i am at now, where BW and Loki are going on a date, though neither one of them will call it that. I still plan on putting him with Union Jack, but this appears to be the official developer sanctioned pairing for Loki for people who do not have Union Jack. At least they are not pushing Enchantress with him just because they're both Asgardian. I see some people on reddit and tumblr that ship them just, ugh, no, AVAC Enchantress is NASTY, I'm not pairing her up with anyone. and she and Loki loathe each other.

Removed images for space, etc Fair enough about the gender-fluidity. I think I've said my piece for now, unless someone else wishes to address something I brought up and I feel it requires a response.

...I did totally think that Doom and Loki dated during JMS' run. Haven't read it myself so I was going off of impressions. There goes my 60/40 joking/serious Loki/Doom ship. (I do think Doom is straight, so it would probably never work out, but I thought it would be funny).

Avengers Academy: It is super awesome for you guys who play to keep us posted. I admit to looking for Thor and Loki interactions on Tumblr yesterday before Kamiciel posted the pics. Not that many yet I will say that, although I love the fact he isn't a straight up villain, I'm generally only so-so about Loki's portrayal in the game from what I've seen so far. Mostly, I'm not terribly fond of the Tsundere archetype (although I did find his interaction with Union Jack, who totally saw straight thru it, to be utterly hilarious). I don't think it's an invalid interpretation, actually, I just keep being like "loki, stop being a jerk :/" And then he keeps doing it, making me want to give him soup and hit him with a stick at the same time.

That said, I found the few interactions thus far with Thor to be funny and kind of touching and then horribly sad. Since it's so easy to see where it all went horribly wrong. I do hope they can work it out, and my urge to hit Loki with pointy objects diminishes.

Oh, did anyone else see the interview with Jason Aaron about his upcoming work on Thor(s)? There were a few questions towards the end of the interview about Loki. I will say that (imo) Aaron tried to increase speculation/uncertainty--basically, I found his responses to be pointing towards a more ambiguous reading than what I would think is so far supported by the book. Mostly, I think he just doesn't want to give away all his secrets, so I'm not too worried. Mostly, what I took away from it was that a) the War of the Realms arc doesn't look like it'll be resolved in the near future and b) Aaron intends to keep a major focus on Loki in his works (he implied that the focus was going to be in TMT, but it wasn't explicitly stated so I'm not ruling out some appearances in UT). The first one my reaction is a bit "okay, Loki, do you remember what you did to Frejya? Do you think you can do that to Malekith, except a bit deadlier?" Seriously, just stabbify him already. The second one makes me happy, since I have liked his take on Loki thus far.

Link to interview, in case it falls off the front page: http://www.comicbookresources.com/ar...ar-mighty-thor