Loki Appreciation 2018

[Raye]

Not sure how new that is. But came across it today, production art for the new Thor movie which does seem to solidly place Loki as a co-protagonist rather than the villain, so that's cool. Hiddleston also said: “Hela is a different beast, and full of surprises, and actually might have been someone with whom at one time he could have gotten along, but the circumstances have changed.” and "At the beginning of Ragnarok, Thor has a lot of questions, and Loki, true to form, is not forthcoming with that many answers. But hammers are involved and the stakes are raised. Cate Blanchett, it’s no secret, is playing the goddess of death, who brings destruction in her wake and it is the kind of destruction that both Thor and Loki have never seen, on a scale of terror that they have never ever seen before. So they fall back on their brotherhood, fractured though it is, to see what they can do to stop her."
http://www.slashfilm.com/thor-ragnar...-loki-strange/

[Riimi]

Not sure how new that is. But came across it today, production art for the new Thor movie which does seem to solidly place Loki as a co-protagonist rather than the villain, so that's cool. Hiddleston also said: “Hela is a different beast, and full of surprises, and actually might have been someone with whom at one time he could have gotten along, but the circumstances have changed.” and "At the beginning of Ragnarok, Thor has a lot of questions, and Loki, true to form, is not forthcoming with that many answers. But hammers are involved and the stakes are raised. Cate Blanchett, it’s no secret, is playing the goddess of death, who brings destruction in her wake and it is the kind of destruction that both Thor and Loki have never seen, on a scale of terror that they have never ever seen before. So they fall back on their brotherhood, fractured though it is, to see what they can do to stop her."
http://www.slashfilm.com/thor-ragnar...-loki-strange/

Good! I was kind of wondering if they'd go that route, given how they've been treating his character lately (I agree with you that Aaron is purposefully obfuscating the situation but will eventually reveal that he was working for something at least substantially less evil than Malekith all along). I'm sure people will end up saying that they changed his character because of the movie portrayal, but although I think that his popularity in the movie was a definite influence, Gillen's work was incredibly important.

Also, I will admit that the small-person part of me is miffed at Doom for what seems to be greater recognition from the superhero community (even if the avenger's aren't thrilled, they're still teaming up), while Loki is in this whole "is he or not" storyline, since it's going to make him seem like a copycat. Yes, totally hipster on my part.

Now! It is rather baseless speculation time, since I was tempted to do so already and you gave me an excuse . Sadly, Loki didn't show up in Unworthy Thor, and I rather doubt he's going to in the last issue; however, Aaron's inclusion of Thori, imo, signals another connection to Loki's recent storyline. I'm hoping we at least see their reunion(Loki and Thori--unfortunately, I think Loki's reunion will take at least an issue longer) in the next three issues.

I almost wonder if Aaron pushed his plans back for some reason. Early on, there was a lot of focus on Loki (for it being nominally Thor's title), but lately, he's been rather absent. The more likely case is that he's been waiting for (Thor) Odinson to return, following the end of the Unworthy Thor mini--he might not have planned it all out exactly, and ended up having to put in on hold for a bit. I'm still holding out a small outlier hope that Loki ends up playing a part in Secret Empire--after all, if the Avengers are going to reform, it's practically his job to make them do so. I did notice that one of the covers had the current version of him, along with Odison (with Jarnborn) on the cover--although, they also included Flatman, so I'm not sure it guarantees him a role of any magnitude. If he does get involved, however, I wouldn't probably expect it until more towards the end, it's not really his bailick.

All the letters in the Thor related series do keep asking what's up with Loki (with the exception of the latest Thor letters, which were rather short). The answer has always been more or less "wait and see", I just hope we're seeing sooner rather than later. Really, I am wondering what the purpose of the Shi'ar war is--hopefully, it will play a purpose that hasn't been indicated so far. In particular, I'm thinking that Cul's proclomation wrt Jane's cancer will be rather important. And then, hopefully Odinson's return means we can finally get on with this War of the Realms. Tho, I guess that is the much larger arc and I can't help but wonder if I would be so impatient if I weren't waiting to see what was going on with Loki.

Other baseless speculation: Based on solicits, people were thinking Aaron might not continue on Doctor Strange (he's a co-author on the May titles). There were a few different possibilities floated (among them, more X-men, Old Man Wolverine, etc.). Obviously, the one I'm most interested in would be a second Thor book following dude-Thor. If it does happen, I'd expect it more after Secret Empire, since I get the feeling that's when they'll be launching a bunch of new #1s. So, a bit of a wait, but I think it would help balance all the plotlines. Also, Loki would be a bit of a more natural fit, there.

On a final, non-Loki related note, I must say that the last issue was probably the most that I've "bought" Jane as Thor thus far. Mostly with her standing up to the Shi'ar gods, who are utter assholes.

Edit Mark2: It is a particularly good sign that the movie is 'Ragnarok', esp. since Loki is supposed to have a villainous role in that. Also, having a more anti-hero role will shift the general public perception of him, esp. since I think it will signal Marvel's commitment to the new status quo.

[Raye]

Good! I was kind of wondering if they'd go that route, given how they've been treating his character lately (I agree with you that Aaron is purposefully obfuscating the situation but will eventually reveal that he was working for something at least substantially less evil than Malekith all along). I'm sure people will end up saying that they changed his character because of the movie portrayal, but although I think that his popularity in the movie was a definite influence, Gillen's work was incredibly important.

People will say the movies are responsible for everything. People already say that the face turn in the comics was due to the movie even though it happened before the first Thor movie even came out (granted, only by a couple months) and he was solidly a villain (though a sympathetic one... in Thor anyway) until Dark World, which came out after Young Avengers, even. I will grant that his *appearance* once he was aged back up was at least partly movie inspired. but not the face turn, that was just story progression.

Also, I will admit that the small-person part of me is miffed at Doom for what seems to be greater recognition from the superhero community (even if the avenger's aren't thrilled, they're still teaming up), while Loki is in this whole "is he or not" storyline, since it's going to make him seem like a copycat. Yes, totally hipster on my part.

One thing i find interesting there is that while the older generation is more accepting of Doom (even though I think Doom will eventually fail and go back to his villainous ways) Loki has been fairly openly accepted by the younger generation. Squirrel Girl, Ms Marvel, his former Young Avengers teammates... (even though he kinda screwed them over, but they seemed to be ready to forgive him for that, except he ran away so they couldn't) I think to the older generation he's kinda like proven himself so untrustworthy that there's no way they'll buy the face turn, which sucks in a way because we know it's genuine, but the younger ones aren't there yet and are willing to give him a chance.

Now! It is rather baseless speculation time, since I was tempted to do so already and you gave me an excuse . Sadly, Loki didn't show up in Unworthy Thor, and I rather doubt he's going to in the last issue; however, Aaron's inclusion of Thori, imo, signals another connection to Loki's recent storyline. I'm hoping we at least see their reunion(Loki and Thori--unfortunately, I think Loki's reunion will take at least an issue longer) in the next three issues.


I almost wonder if Aaron pushed his plans back for some reason. Early on, there was a lot of focus on Loki (for it being nominally Thor's title), but lately, he's been rather absent. The more likely case is that he's been waiting for (Thor) Odinson to return, following the end of the Unworthy Thor mini--he might not have planned it all out exactly, and ended up having to put in on hold for a bit. I'm still holding out a small outlier hope that Loki ends up playing a part in Secret Empire--after all, if the Avengers are going to reform, it's practically his job to make them do so. I did notice that one of the covers had the current version of him, along with Odison (with Jarnborn) on the cover--although, they also included Flatman, so I'm not sure it guarantees him a role of any magnitude. If he does get involved, however, I wouldn't probably expect it until more towards the end, it's not really his bailick.

As i said earlier, I think Aaron kinda has a story that's a bit too big for a book like Thor. too many plot threads to be juggling and still be able to wrap it all up in a reasonable amount time. though, I have to say diverting things from Asgard out to the Shi'ar seems kind of baffling if that's the case, but I presume there must be a reason for it...

the cover, you mean the Todd Nauck variant cover? Yah, kinda looks like he was just trying to cram everyone he could on there. I mean, the Lizard is on there, and though I haven't really been following Spider-Man recently, I'm pretty sure he hasn't been shown for more than a cameo here and there for YEARS.... which is kind of a shame, come to think of it.

All the letters in the Thor related series do keep asking what's up with Loki (with the exception of the latest Thor letters, which were rather short). The answer has always been more or less "wait and see", I just hope we're seeing sooner rather than later. Really, I am wondering what the purpose of the Shi'ar war is--hopefully, it will play a purpose that hasn't been indicated so far. In particular, I'm thinking that Cul's proclomation wrt Jane's cancer will be rather important. And then, hopefully Odinson's return means we can finally get on with this War of the Realms. Tho, I guess that is the much larger arc and I can't help but wonder if I would be so impatient if I weren't waiting to see what was going on with Loki.

One letter recently did annoy me a bit because they seemed miffed that Loki had gone villain again, fine, BUT they seemed to be under the impression that he was in the same position as Sabretooth, that it was the inversion during Axis that caused him to be good, which was a bit annoying. Just something i see around sometimes, usually from people who never read Agent of Asgard, and only Axis, and don't realize that he only THOUGHT he was a good guy even inverted, but was actually a complete douche. uninverted = mostly pretty ok guy who still thought himself bad at his core (and felt guilty about that). inverted = complete asshole who thought he was totally good. I just wish more people understood that. I mean there was a little more to it than that, but you know. the answer said he went back to his old self once the spell had ended, BUT failed to explain to the person writing the letter that this did not mean he went back to being a villain. Honestly, that's kinda Loki levels of deception right there. They're telling the truth, Loki did revert back at the end of Axis. But for the person writing the letter and anyone else who read it and took his belief that Loki had inverted to 'good' at face value, by failing to correct them, the editor basically told them 'yeah Loki totally reverted back to a villain at the end of Axis, and that's why he's being such a dick right now' even though his face turn was completely unrelated to Axis. But for those of us that actually understood what happened with Loki during Axis, it's kind of reassuring... i guess? I mean it's something we already knew, but...

Other baseless speculation: Based on solicits, people were thinking Aaron might not continue on Doctor Strange (he's a co-author on the May titles). There were a few different possibilities floated (among them, more X-men, Old Man Wolverine, etc.). Obviously, the one I'm most interested in would be a second Thor book following dude-Thor. If it does happen, I'd expect it more after Secret Empire, since I get the feeling that's when they'll be launching a bunch of new #1s. So, a bit of a wait, but I think it would help balance all the plotlines. Also, Loki would be a bit of a more natural fit, there.

I would really like a Thor and Loki book, but I have a hunch that Aaron dropping Strange has nothing to do with anything Marvel related. His creator owned books like Southern Bastards and The Goddamned, have been coming out more and more sporadically, and I suspect he just wants to be able to devote more time to them.

[Raye]

? ....did CBR fuck up? Agent of Asgard 10 came out like.... 2 years ago...

ANYWAY! an excuse to post this.



Looks like we may have to hit Toys R' Us sometime. Lady Loki will be included in the exclusive box set for A-force: http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-most-amaz...s-y-1792530410

A-force never really clicked with me, and i actually really dislike Singularity, (I dunno, i just find her grating) but I think i may get it for Loki, Sif, Monica and Elsa. I looooove Elsa Bloodstone, and not like she's high enough profile to get a toy very often, this may be the only one she ever gets. But i have no idea how expensive it will be or even when it will be released. the 12 inch Thor figure also looks super nice.

[kaimaciel]

Ragnarok_Loki.jpg

Someone needed to post this.

[Raye]

I like how Thor has to, like, fight the Hulk in an arena, and Loki's just sitting there watching, sipping drinks with a bunch of aliens in ridiculous outfits. He seems to have it pretty easy this movie, overall.

I'm still not entirely sure what to make of the movie, but at least it ought to be distinctive. I watched Hunt for the Wilderpeople a little while ago, and it was really good, it was a comedy, but a sort of bittersweet one with a lot of heart, so that kind of made me much more interested in seeing what Waititi does with Thor.

[Riimi]

I'll be good and be the one to thread bump (I can't figure out how to spoiler tag stuff and I don't like to jump the gun).

So. Spoilers from the latest issue of TMT ahead.

Welp. Loki does more bad shit and looks miserable. In a flashback, we see that he's the one who incited the Shi'ar gods against Thor. Ostensibly for the purpose of keeping her busy while Malekith and co continue their War of the Realms. So, at least we have a tie-in there. Yay! Given that Sif yelled at Cul until he went to war with the Shi'ar, the distraction likely worked better than intended. Asgard is currently all but undefended. ON the one hand, I have to admire the cunning and tactics. However, that only came after a break in my reaction of Omg Loki, what are you doing? Staaaahp. So, yeah. He continues to...what? Play the role of a villain? In the light of those killed by the Shi'ar gods, it makes me rather uneasy--although you could say that he's not truly responsible for them being the assholes they are, and you'd also be right.


Really, if it wasn't for the continuously sad Dauterman faces (in the last scene with him he looks just...exhausted, is the word I'd use) and the taunting replies to the letters--and oh, how they taunt me--I'd be sure Aaron was just straight up writing him as evil. As it is, however, it seems like he has a plan, but one that can't yet be implemented because of [reasons]? Yeah, reasons. Those are sure some damn good reasons. The best reasons, even.

[Raye]

this really is getting frustrating. it still seems there is more going on, I think there will be payoff in the end, but it's just taking WAY TOO LONG to get to the point. And this is kinda going for the series as a whole, not just the Loki bits. I kinda just want it to get wrapped up already, it's beginning to overstay it's welcome. It feels like Aaron has all these little bits of story he wanted to get to and show, but it's causing the overall plot to drag. And Loki's looking bad as a result, his actions are starting to not make any sense, because on the one hand we get hints that he's up to something more, but on the other it's been forever now, and he's made ZERO progress that we can see, all we can see is him doing bad things, and being unhappy about it. which makes you just shake him and say, if you hate this so much, just stop.

[kaimaciel]

I'll be good and be the one to thread bump (I can't figure out how to spoiler tag stuff and I don't like to jump the gun).

So. Spoilers from the latest issue of TMT ahead.

Welp. Loki does more bad shit and looks miserable. In a flashback, we see that he's the one who incited the Shi'ar gods against Thor. Ostensibly for the purpose of keeping her busy while Malekith and co continue their War of the Realms. So, at least we have a tie-in there. Yay! Given that Sif yelled at Cul until he went to war with the Shi'ar, the distraction likely worked better than intended. Asgard is currently all but undefended. ON the one hand, I have to admire the cunning and tactics. However, that only came after a break in my reaction of Omg Loki, what are you doing? Staaaahp. So, yeah. He continues to...what? Play the role of a villain? In the light of those killed by the Shi'ar gods, it makes me rather uneasy--although you could say that he's not truly responsible for them being the assholes they are, and you'd also be right.


Really, if it wasn't for the continuously sad Dauterman faces (in the last scene with him he looks just...exhausted, is the word I'd use) and the taunting replies to the letters--and oh, how they taunt me--I'd be sure Aaron was just straight up writing him as evil. As it is, however, it seems like he has a plan, but one that can't yet be implemented because of [reasons]? Yeah, reasons. Those are sure some damn good reasons. The best reasons, even.

This is so frustating! I'm tired of feeling like bashing my head against a wall everytime Loki appears in this comic. If they just want to return him to villainy, then do it already. I don't want them to, but all this dragging around is literally painful. Besides, we all know they would revert him to the status quo eventually.

[616MarvelYear is LeapYear]

Yeah, I agree.

[Raye]

So now I am a bit confused. I saw the cover for Mighty Thor #20 and I was like, 'It's Odin. One eye is blacked out, big gray beard. Obviously.' (and that Ultimate Thor wasn't Odinson wasn't a huge shock to me, as I saw Thor refusing to pick up Ultimate Mjolnir coming, and I actually like that decision, because it's not the hammer that makes Thor a hero, it's WHO HE IS on the inside. Though i kinda thought his reasoning would be slightly different, but I guess it does kind of make sense with the current arc in Mighty.) But I just read Unworthy Thor, and I am not so sure, the dialogue just did not fit Odin very well. It had a sad, regretful tone to it, while Aaron's Odin is.... not. Well, I guess when he was watching over Freyja. But anyway, he said he didn't think himself worthy, while Odin ranted and raged at Mjolnir after it refused to be picked up by him earlier in the story. Odin clearly felt he should be worthy, no question. If it were Odin, he'd be like 'finally, a hammer with some sense' but this person, in 2 separate dialogue balloons, expressed doubt about their worthyness. "...though I don't know why one such as I could possibly be chosen to...." and "There are other Thors, I know. More worthy than I could ever be." Does that sound like Odin? no. So it is someone who is filled with doubt, someone who does not believe themselves worthy and/or heroic. They also mention having changed after witnessing 'horrors' hm.... Am I reading too much into that, or does this sound like someone we in this thread are well familiar with? .... but Loki is not really a 'War Thor' type, but based on the dialogue, it may not be the title chosen because that is the type of person he is, but because they can look at the larger picture, the NARRATIVE, and see what type of person, or CHARACTER within that narrative, is needed. And the design of the new Thor does not really fit.... but some details do. Mostly beard + right eye obscured = Odin. But he's also wearing scale armor, which is kinda Loki's thing, the chainmail on the helmet resembles black hair, and the wings on the helmet are different from either the feathery wings of old-school Thor, or the more recent metal wings of either Odinson or Jane. they are more similar to the wings Loki had when he was doing the little head wings thing rather than his usual horns. it's really weird. I mean, Jane changed a fair bit when she picked it up before, grew hair not her usual colour, got seriously beefed up, and all. but....the big beard? that seems a bit much for Loki. But wasn't there a weird bit of dialogue a while back from him saying he'd grow out a big beard? when was that? I can't find it.... but i remember it. But I did re-read the issue where Loki and Thor fight, and with the clarity that comes with hindsight, it does make some of his actions make a little more sense. Basically, Loki wants to change and be a good boy, but is too chicken to actually do it because it's so out of the norm for him. He likes the security of his routine even though he can recognize it is harmful. This is something I am well familiar with, personally. On the one hand, he can see that the old ways were getting tired and predictable, and does not like the effect they have, and he does want to change, but at the same time his old ways are easy and comforting. It doesn't quite jive with the end of Agent of Asgard, but it does make his actions within Mighty Thor make more sense. He HAS fallen off the wagon.... but only in a kinda-sorta way, where he's going through the motions, but discovering he's changed enough now that he's not feeling it, feeling guilty about every shitty thing he does. And at some point, he has to make a decision of doing what's wrong but familiar, easy and comforting, or good but hard and out of his comfort zone. And as time goes on he has been leaning more towards the latter. This is kind of similar to the whole reasoning for the plot hatched with Kid Loki in JIM, but with a key difference. old Loki had created that plan because he knew the old ways were predictable and boring, true. but the motivation was still selfish. He was only setting out to create the ILLUSION of change, so that he could catch people off-guard again. In Young Avengers and Agent of Asgard this shifted a bit because he began feeling actual guilt over some of his past misdeeds, including the grand plan to redefine himself. And it seemed as though that would keep him going down the right path, but it appears that with the uncertainty that came with his God of Stories change, he slipped a bit after he was instructed to infiltrate Malekith's group. And then we come to what we have been discussing the past couple issues. That it feels like Loki is treading water, like Aaron was just having him THERE but not really making any progress of any kind until... *something* happened. What if this is that something?

but back to the new Ultimate Thor. The only 2 things we know for absolute certain are:

- Based on the cover, it is most likely a man. Though the art in Unworthy Thor was so vague it could be literally anyone, as long as they had all 4 limbs accounted for, we have seen the cover, and I doubt a transformation would include a gender flip since it didn't include one for Jane.

-They are an Asgardian, or Asgardian adjacent. (like an elf or something) You know, anyone who would normally get the special font. Remember, when Jane picked up the hammer, her speech balloons had regular font until she picked up the hammer, THEN it switched to the Asgardian font, it was one of the clues she was human. Not the case here, they had the Asgardian font before so much as touching the hammer, so they are Asgardian.

So both Loki and Odin fit those two criteria. (but so do a lot of other characters....) And we have an odd situation where the art points towards Odin, but the dialogue and water-treading in Mighty Thor points towards Loki. But if they were going to have the solicit hit within a day of this being released with the new Thor splashed all over the cover, why all the extreme secrecy with his identity in this issue if it IS Odin? It sure LOOKS like Odin on that cover, he is doing a pretty shitty job of concealing his identity if it is him. so.... the secrecy seems un-needed if it is actually him rather than a red herring. Another option that may fit could be Cul. Maybe Volstagg. Or it could be someone completely different. The line about being changed because of the horrors they saw could be someone going from absolute pacifist to a fighter. or something else, i don't know. But there hasn't been a very large cast of characters in the book, so there are not that many options.

*edit - and then there is Thori! Why was be brought into this? there has to be a reason besides giving Thor a pet dog.

And Hela. if anyone is going to get through to Hela, it will be Loki, her former BFF. sort of. There are a lot of JIM connections forming.

Also, if it is Loki, and the Odin hints are a red herring, that will be .... interesting to see what his reaction would be. Jane as Thor has her whole personality altered to an extent. She becomes much more impulsive, quick to judge, black and white in her thinking, (so basically, everything Loki isn't) and lets Mjolnir have much more control than Odinson did, it's like a merging of personalities. I do not think Loki would like that one tiny bit if he was aware of it happening. the Axis flip was a bit different, his personality was kinda rewritten there, so while he was aware he had changed, it was in a way he was cool with, even though he was a dick. But this i think is more like the wielder has to give up part of themselves while in Thor mode. It's less noticeable with Odinson, likely because we are just so used to it, and the personality shift is not very big at all anyway. but Loki would be a BIG shift, and he is person who highly values freedom and non-conformity. Having something else direct his actions even in part would not sit well with him.

[rpmaluki]

Between Cul, Odin, Loki, Loki seems to be the prime candidate based on the dialogue alone. I don't think Odin and Cul are humble enough, at least not recently. Loki's the one who's been seeking a way out of the "box" for years now and even though he's not done it perfectly, especially with the wonky characterisation in TMT, he's making a concerted effort and it wouldn't surprise me that the hammer calling to him now that Thor's basically said he doesn't need it. You make a very compelling argument for Loki to be War Thor I just don't know how I feel about it though as a Loki fan. I'm certainly ready for Thor Odinson to be "Thor" once again, he has all these people jumping the queue for some reason. It must really suck to be him right now, even if he doesn't see it that way.

I'd love to have Loki back in an on-going, I can imaging the internet rage if you're right and War Thor is Loki, I can say this about the guy, whenever he does something he certainly goes all in. A part of me wants this to be true but a bigger part of me is wary of the nerd outrage that will surely follow and Loki losing much of his identity in donning the "Thor" mantle.

I think the right eye is in shadow to throw people off. You forgot the sheep skin for a collar and the black leather bands which is also reminiscent of Loki and and his gloves. It's a stretch but why not?

[Raye]

Yeah. I haven't actually dared venture into the rest of CBR yet, since I imagine there is a lot of frothing at the mouth over the whisper and such. hehehe.... Don't worry about the nerd outrage. No one gets to dictate what's good, if you like it that's all that matters. Yeah, the arguments can be tiring, and that's kind of why I have stepped away form most of the rest of CBR for the most part. I just find I enjoy the books better when I just.... read them, particularly if it's a book that's triggering a particularly angry backlash over some change or whatever. Like, I don't give a damn what anyone says, I am loving Hydra Cap. And that's enough, I don't need anyone to validate that. I do like to speculate sometimes, though. Getting my thoughts written out helps me sort through things. sometimes I just do that to a friend on like Hangouts or something. they wake up to like this massive wall of text from me speculating at 2 am. But when it comes to Loki, I like this thread for that. As for Thor and the whisper.... I have to say, I am myself an atheist, so to my perspective, I always thought Gorr had a point. sort of, anyway. But I thought like, Thor was the exception to the rule kinda deal. And anyway, the pagan pantheons typically weren't about having perfect gods, their gods were characters that served as examples. They had many faults, and were often cruel, but people still learned from them, from their stories. So it's kind of a shame that Thor believed the whisper, rather than try and prove it wrong. But we know from the future timeline that he does eventually come to that conclusion, or something similar, so maybe that's just the journey he is on.

Ah yes, the white fur on the shoulders. Though I think Cul has that too. But Cul.... he doesn't feel right. as you said, he's not humble enough.

Another option is Volstagg, come to think of it. The gloves fit there. The person who picked up the hammer was wearing full gloves, which Loki hasn't done for quite a while, he's gone for fingerless gloves for many years now, (but having a hand in a fingerless glove with black nailpolish would have been a DEAD GIVEAWAY, so.... yeah, they couldn't do that) Odin does but only sometimes, and I couldn't really tell you about Cul, but Volstagg typically does wear gloves. And he is one of the few characters with a full beard (though his is bright red) But the silhouette did not seem.... big enough. I also dunno if he has enough narrative drive here. But Jane's setup for becoming Thor was a one-off issue during the God of Thunder run, so who knows.

I think something is going to happen with Loki though, but it hasn't been happening YET, as mentioned it felt like he was treading water until all the pieces were in place. And I dunno, I just feel like this is the piece he was waiting for. Is it him in that getup, or will he be reacting to the new Thor? it's a little hard to say, but they brought in Thori and Hela in this story, so bringing in some JIM connections, the dialogue fits, going back to re-read it feels kinda right. But yeah, if it's him it could be weird. But pretty sure it would only be temporary.

[rpmaluki]

You're right about Volstagg and the gloves. That silhouette does look to be on the heavy side. Now that I think about I say it's him.

[Riimi]

<snip>
Am I reading too much into that, or does this sound like someone we in this thread are well familiar with? .... but Loki is not really a 'War Thor' type, but based on the dialogue, it may not be the title chosen because that is the type of person he is, but because they can look at the larger picture, the NARRATIVE, and see what type of person, or CHARACTER within that narrative, is needed.
<snip>

Although it could be interesting, I doubt it's Loki. I feel like he has another narrative role to play, even if the new Thor displays some of his (recently) characteristic guilt. An important part of his journey in AoA was recognizing that he could be different from the perfect icon Thor was without being evil. With that said...

Basically, Loki wants to change and be a good boy, but is too chicken to actually do it because it's so out of the norm for him. He likes the security of his routine even though he can recognize it is harmful. This is something I am well familiar with, personally. On the one hand, he can see that the old ways were getting tired and predictable, and does not like the effect they have, and he does want to change, but at the same time his old ways are easy and comforting. It doesn't quite jive with the end of Agent of Asgard, but it does make his actions within Mighty Thor make more sense. He HAS fallen off the wagon.... but only in a kinda-sorta way, where he's going through the motions, but discovering he's changed enough now that he's not feeling it, feeling guilty about every shitty thing he does. And at some point, he has to make a decision of doing what's wrong but familiar, easy and comforting, or good but hard and out of his comfort zone.

<snip>

...it appears that with the uncertainty that came with his God of Stories change, he slipped a bit after he was instructed to infiltrate Malekith's group. And then we come to what we have been discussing the past couple issues. That it feels like Loki is treading water, like Aaron was just having him THERE but not really making any progress of any kind until... *something* happened. What if this is that something?

<snip>

*edit - and then there is Thori! Why was be brought into this? there has to be a reason besides giving Thor a pet dog.

And Hela. if anyone is going to get through to Hela, it will be Loki, her former BFF. sort of. There are a lot of JIM connections forming.

<snip>

...these are some interesting ideas. I hadn't thought that Loki might have "fallen off the wagon" --and where's a villains anonymous group when you need one?--but you make a decent argument. If this is the case, however, I would see it as having occurred somewhere after the fifth issue, since he really did seem to be working against Agger with the Hulks. But, sometime after that, especially as his position was forcing him to act like a villain already. I guess it would be kind of synonymous to making a recovering alcoholic drink for (reasons), since his options were really limited.

OTOH, my speculation has kind of continued down a totally different avenue (even if his self-deprecating comment about being petty last issue appears to support the above). Really, part of the issue is that we have a very limited data set to draw conclusions from. If this is all part of a plan, then he's clinging incredibly well to the whole "unspoken plan guarantee". In fact, there were two different possibilities I saw here: one, that he has knowingly gone back to "playing" the part of the villain because the underlying mythos still states that Thor beats Loki, and so he knows ultimately that any plans he masterminds will backfire; two, that Malekith still doesn't entirely trust him and is currently testing him.

...Actually, it could possibly be both things. His initial confrontation with Thor showed him trying to establish a different kind of interaction between them, only to be forcefully turned down. Thus, that narrative is still a thing. He could be purposefully exploiting it...or, he could have decided that it doesn't really matter what he does now, because she'll win regardless and has kind of fallen back into despair. I could see either. For the second one, well, Malekith is a whole lot more cunning than Laufey. If Cul was sharp enough to question Loki's motives after his poison failed to kill Freya, I find it difficult to believe that Malekith wouldn't. However, rejecting him would have placed Malekith in a politically awkward situation (within his council). Especially since it won Laufey's support so strongly, but it would look bad to everyone else, as well. Also, Malekith still wouldn't be sure if Freya's survival was a fluke or not. So, he let Loki in but has been keeping a close eye on him and testing him to prove his loyalty. We see this in the issue in Alfheim where he asks Loki to dispose of the Light Elven Queen, and then in this issue Loki addresses him directly because he knows he's watching. It would also explain why Loki hasn't tried to stab him--he probably has wards or something that would make it fail, and then Loki would be screwed in a big way. Actually, I think I've talked myself into this. Malekith is cunning enough that we've seen him more or less run circles around both Thors, the league of Realms, and whatever Freya's council is called (name slipped my mind). It's going to take more than a failed assassination attempt to fool him.

I also totally agree that Thori was brought in because of the JIM connection. Aaron especially has shown that he's not going to pay deference to continuity if it doesn't serve his purpose and thus wouldn't be including it if he didn't have something in mind for it (in general, I find his writing to be good enough that his usage of this approach mostly just amuses me).

<snip> You make a very compelling argument for Loki to be War Thor I just don't know how I feel about it though as a Loki fan. I'm certainly ready for Thor Odinson to be "Thor" once again, he has all these people jumping the queue for some reason. It must really suck to be him right now, even if he doesn't see it that way.

I'd love to have Loki back in an on-going, I can imaging the internet rage if you're right and War Thor is Loki, I can say this about the guy, whenever he does something he certainly goes all in. A part of me wants this to be true but a bigger part of me is wary of the nerd outrage that will surely follow and Loki losing much of his identity in donning the "Thor" mantle.

<snip>

As I said above, I'd prefer for Loki not to be Thor. Also, Thor (Odinson) reclaimed his identity, if not the hammer, so at least there's that. At any rate, it's a step in the right direction

I was going to write more but I think this is good for now.