Loki Appreciation 2018

[Rosebunse]

I don't know, but we have to analyze the **** out of this gif!

Maybe Strange think he'll get his magic back by using Loki or something?

[Prof. Aegis]

I mean, I am pretty sure this is actually just a collage of other pictures mashed together, hence characters being wedged in awkward places,....

And I mean, he looks scheming, but... it's Loki, he's always scheming, even when he's trying to be sorta good.

This isn't a collage of different images. I've seen the pencils from Mark Brooks and it's an original drawn and colored piece. I think they wanted him to mesh all the characters in for the image, so there's no particular focus of action.

I was thrilled to see Loki in this piece which meant he has some sort of prominence in the coming stories either in Thor or somewhere else! Also, I do find it interesting that he is the only villain or anti-hero on this piece. Says something about his status and strength as a character.

[Rosebunse]

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out where Loki is coming from here. Will he be the villain? Or continue as an anti-hero?

[Raye]

This isn't a collage of different images. I've seen the pencils from Mark Brooks and it's an original drawn and colored piece. I think they wanted him to mesh all the characters in for the image, so there's no particular focus of action.

I was thrilled to see Loki in this piece which meant he has some sort of prominence in the coming stories either in Thor or somewhere else! Also, I do find it interesting that he is the only villain or anti-hero on this piece. Says something about his status and strength as a character.

oh, ok! well then it actually gets a bit more interesting, in that case... looking at the other variant covers by Quesada and Ross, there are no villains on those, either. A few anti-heroes, like Deadpool, sure, but... no villains. And even though I think we'd like to think Loki will stick to his anti-hero face turn, he is still primarily known as a villain. I just hope it's not a return to him being general bad guy.

As for Doctor Strange, you know, i was wondering why he never got affected by that whole death of magic thing. That happened in Doctor Strange, written by Jason Aaron no less, but over in Thor, everything seemed fine with magic, Loki was being all magical, even when he was on Earth during Vote Loki, and there were several other Asgardians doing magic as well, plus Malekith of course. Presumably it has something to do with Asgard, but i don't think it was ever explicitly stated. (though admittedly, everything since the end of that has kind of been piling up in my 'to read' list that i keep meaning to get to but never quite do) Maybe that will be explained here.

[Rosebunse]

Maybe it's different sorts of magic? Loki and other god-like beings and creatures might have different sources for their magic than Strange and other, more human magicians, do.

Which as I said, might explain a bit why Loki is here. Strange may see this and decide to try and play Loki, or Loki may try and play him as part of his plans.

It should be noted that Aaron hasn't written Loki as a pure villain. He didn't really try abs kill the elf queen, he seems genuinely disgusted with himself, and bringing in the Queen of Cinders wasn't even his idea.

[Riimi]

Responding a bit out of order (I wanted to address a lot of the speculative posts at once).

that's a good point about the bird likely being a reference to Ikol. and stuff about swords.

I would love a magpie reference. Also, I like to imagine telling people he's literally part magpie and them telling me I'm using the word wrong and then being all 'nope! He was actually, literally, a magpie. Had feathers and everything.'

Ancient/historic weaponry isn't something I know much about, but the Norse swords shown are quite beautiful, here.

Anyway.... another cover with Loki! apparently he will be in Dr Strange. a bit, well, strange that he never appeared while Aaron was still writing it, but whatever.

<snipped>

Wonder if it will be as an antagonist or a team up... cover can't really tell us much since they had to make it fit the other cover's layout. but i don'tthink Hopeless has written new Loki before, so i am a little worried.

This isn't a collage of different images. I've seen the pencils from Mark Brooks and it's an original drawn and colored piece. I think they wanted him to mesh all the characters in for the image, so there's no particular focus of action.

I was thrilled to see Loki in this piece which meant he has some sort of prominence in the coming stories either in Thor or somewhere else! Also, I do find it interesting that he is the only villain or anti-hero on this piece. Says something about his status and strength as a character.

Well, it makes sense for Loki to have a sword with birds, doesn't it? This Loki was originally Ikol the magpie.

I think we'll also be seeing some of Loki's God of Stories jurisdiction here. After all, the Marvel Universe is more or less acknowledged as a literary work in canon, which potentially makes Loki one of the most powerful beings around.

My guess is, he tries to "fix" things by merging the past with the present.

He's showing up enough in solicits that I am going to go out on a limb and say he's a major player in Legacy/Generations (Generations are the specific books and Legacy is the overall 'hook'/brand, right?). The Doctor Strange solicit looks kind of ominous, but you're right that they had to model it off the original cover. Not sure if it's important that they only call him "trickster" instead of "god of evil/lies" or if I'm reading too much into it. However, with the knowledge that the other image wasn't a collage but a single piece, I think it's more likely that this may be his moment of redemption in the eyes of the rest of the MU. I agree with Rosenbunse that he probably tries to 'fix' things by merging past and present (hey, it worked for him). In fact, given his issues with fate, I wouldn't see him erasing anything that's happened because that would deny people agency. As far as whether it works out or not...well, if it gets others to trust him (to some extent ;p), then it probably does work. Especially since his reputation is such that a failure would likely be attributed to malice instead of over-reaching, unless he dies *again*, which I think unlikely. Granted, this is speculation based on prior speculation--speculation all the way down, one could say.

My one concern with this outcome would be what we were discussing immediately after Agent of Asgard--that is, basically, the issue of checks and balances. I know not everyone agreed that it could be an issue, but if he's this powerful, what's to stop him (other than himself)? While a psychological story like this can be brilliant--Agent of Asgard was a bit in this fashion; another example would be Sandman--I feel like it is also the type that suffers the most from a lack of resolution. In other words, it's hard to maintain it as the status-quo. Granted, we haven't actually seen what he needs to accomplish a feat like this--and he's certainly been dragging his feet for some reason in Thor. Given all the setup, I wouldn't be surprised if it was sufficiently difficult for him to pull off, but I admit I have no clue what the particular limits/variables could be.

[Raye]

Maybe it's different sorts of magic? Loki and other god-like beings and creatures might have different sources for their magic than Strange and other, more human magicians, do.

Which as I said, might explain a bit why Loki is here. Strange may see this and decide to try and play Loki, or Loki may try and play him as part of his plans.

It should be noted that Aaron hasn't written Loki as a pure villain. He didn't really try abs kill the elf queen, he seems genuinely disgusted with himself, and bringing in the Queen of Cinders wasn't even his idea.

Yes, I know that, you know that, most in this thread know that. But since his end game is unknown at this point, his portrayal has been ambiguous enough that I fear writers other than Aaron, who may not have been following the story closely, may not get it. Or maybe they've had a story idea for him in mind for years, and his current status quo be damned. I mean, that's what editors are for, i know, but still.

He's showing up enough in solicits that I am going to go out on a limb and say he's a major player in Legacy/Generations (Generations are the specific books and Legacy is the overall 'hook'/brand, right?). The Doctor Strange solicit looks kind of ominous, but you're right that they had to model it off the original cover. Not sure if it's important that they only call him "trickster" instead of "god of evil/lies" or if I'm reading too much into it. However, with the knowledge that the other image wasn't a collage but a single piece, I think it's more likely that this may be his moment of redemption in the eyes of the rest of the MU. I agree with Rosenbunse that he probably tries to 'fix' things by merging past and present (hey, it worked for him). In fact, given his issues with fate, I wouldn't see him erasing anything that's happened because that would deny people agency. As far as whether it works out or not...well, if it gets others to trust him (to some extent ;p), then it probably does work. Especially since his reputation is such that a failure would likely be attributed to malice instead of over-reaching, unless he dies *again*, which I think unlikely. Granted, this is speculation based on prior speculation--speculation all the way down, one could say.

My one concern with this outcome would be what we were discussing immediately after Agent of Asgard--that is, basically, the issue of checks and balances. I know not everyone agreed that it could be an issue, but if he's this powerful, what's to stop him (other than himself)? While a psychological story like this can be brilliant--Agent of Asgard was a bit in this fashion; another example would be Sandman--I feel like it is also the type that suffers the most from a lack of resolution. In other words, it's hard to maintain it as the status-quo. Granted, we haven't actually seen what he needs to accomplish a feat like this--and he's certainly been dragging his feet for some reason in Thor. Given all the setup, I wouldn't be surprised if it was sufficiently difficult for him to pull off, but I admit I have no clue what the particular limits/variables could be.

I do think Aaron has been portraying him as significantly less powerful than was implied by the end of Agent of Asgard, likely for this very reason. I mean sure, he's a god, but make him too powerful and it's hard to do anything with him as a character. But... i think it could still be something he could do, to change the past. i mean, Kid Loki did that and he didn't have half the magical ability or knowledge adult Loki has. But I don't see this as being something he does often, because it can have unpredictable effects.

[Rosebunse]

Is Loki really that powerful at the end of Agent of Asgard? It seems to me that he's just as powerful as he ever was, just with a different perspective on how his powers can be used.

As for what Rimi said, that actually does sound like what he'd do. But how would he do it?

[Raye]

I know Ewing said, somewhere, I can't remember exactly where, or the specific wording, that the ending did mean a power up. But as mentioned, I don't think Aaron and Hastings, pretty much the only ones to have him since then in any major capacity, has really had him be that much, if any, more powerful than he was before. Sure, he talked a bunch of giants to death, he put up a good fight against Jane, etc. But it was the kinds of things he'd done before, more or less. I guess it is possible that he is saving it for something big, but, i dunno, doesnt really feel like it. Though if he is involved with Legacy, rewriting the past and whatnot, that could be seen as part of that. But as mentioned, Kid Loki did the same thing, so..... yeah, he had to get the shadow of Twilight to do it, but he still did it.

[Riimi]

Is Loki really that powerful at the end of Agent of Asgard? It seems to me that he's just as powerful as he ever was, just with a different perspective on how his powers can be used.

As for what Rimi said, that actually does sound like what he'd do. But how would he do it?

I know Ewing said, somewhere, I can't remember exactly where, or the specific wording, that the ending did mean a power up. But as mentioned, I don't think Aaron and Hastings, pretty much the only ones to have him since then in any major capacity, has really had him be that much, if any, more powerful than he was before. Sure, he talked a bunch of giants to death, he put up a good fight against Jane, etc. But it was the kinds of things he'd done before, more or less. I guess it is possible that he is saving it for something big, but, i dunno, doesnt really feel like it. Though if he is involved with Legacy, rewriting the past and whatnot, that could be seen as part of that. But as mentioned, Kid Loki did the same thing, so..... yeah, he had to get the shadow of Twilight to do it, but he still did it.

Yeah. How he would do such a thing really is the question. Guess it's a matter of interpretation, but I did think that the end of Agent of Asgard left it as an open question as to how powerful he is. I mean, he pretty much hijacked the final issue to make it turn out how he wanted to. Yeah, he had to 'write himself out of the story', but what does that really mean? I guess what I am really looking for is some sort of definition of his powers. My only guess so far is that the Halls of All-Knowing will be involved, somehow.

[Raye]

So Marvel has released the titles of the arcs for the Legacy books, and Doctor Strange's is called "Loki: Sorcerer Supreme" so.... that's pretty big. And looks like he will be in it for more than just the one issue, for sure. I just hope he is not like STEALING the title, somehow. I don't want him to be the bad guy, here. Antagonist, maybe, but... I just hope he is not being put back into villain mode because everyone is returning to their 'classic' roles in Legacy. But, as far as I know, the title has to be granted, and can't really just be taken. Though if anyone could figure out a way, i guess Loki could....

[Riimi]

So Marvel has released the titles of the arcs for the Legacy books, and Doctor Strange's is called "Loki: Sorcerer Supreme" so.... that's pretty big. And looks like he will be in it for more than just the one issue, for sure. I just hope he is not like STEALING the title, somehow. I don't want him to be the bad guy, here. Antagonist, maybe, but... I just hope he is not being put back into villain mode because everyone is returning to their 'classic' roles in Legacy. But, as far as I know, the title has to be granted, and can't really just be taken. Though if anyone could figure out a way, i guess Loki could....

I'll admit, I was worried a bit when I heard that, too. However, I don't think that they're undoing everything (I'm expecting the more popular changes, like Ms. Marvel, for instance, to stick around). Hopefully, they'll put a hold on introducing new characters, as opposed to killing off all the changes. In this case, I think popularity is going to be a huge factor for what they keep. I know Agent of Asgard was on the edge according to Diamond sales, but I also think they'll be reluctant to throw away a character who was able to carry a solo (or two, counting JIM), who is also fairly popular due to the movies. There's also the fact that he was also separate from a lot of the changes--although he is a diverse character, he's not new, and I also don't think I've seen anyone argue that making him bi/pan or more genderfluid was part of some "pc agenda" (I support more diverse characters; I'm just analyzing this on arguments I've seen). I mean, seriously, it's Loki . I'm also counting on that making them a bit more reluctant to change him back, since they probably also want to look good about representation without actually offending people. While I do think part of the initiative is to make heroes more heroic and villains more villainous, they could decide he fits on the more "heroic" side, especially depending on how this plays out.

Additionally, right now, I think he would be so fun for writers to use. Typically, everyone gets stuck more or less with keeping the status quo, but Loki breaks that, in addition to being complex and having his own built in angst. Basically, he's an incredibly flexible character right now, story-wise. My feeling is that he's a bit of a writer's favorite, in part because of the above, in part because his story has been quite well done since Siege, and, honestly, in part because I think writers can sympathize with being the unpopular nerd. Ha. I'm realizing my argument basically boils down to "I don't feel like they're going to..." although, to be fair, my impression so far is that Jason Aaron pretty much does what he wants (within reason) and throws his multiple awards at anyone who tells him otherwise.

Lastly, I have to admit to geeking out about 'Loki, Sorcerer Supreme.' I was thinking how he would do everything I've speculated and I pretty much went up going, 'Loki, stop taking Wiccan's job. He's the one who's supposed to re-write all the rules of Magic'. Hmm. OTOH, he could be the villain who brings them all together, but 1) again, Aaron is in charge of a lot of Legacy, has said something big is coming, and also seems to be a fan of the less evil Loki, as measured in terms of speculated mopey-ness thus far while working with Malekith 2) he could do it purposefully (*although that gets tiring after so long *)

[Raye]

Well, Aaron isn't writing Doctor Strange any more, so while I am fairly confident HIS Loki will come out on the right side of things in the end in Thor, and if he was writing this Sorcerer Supreme story i wouldn't be too worried, other writers are harder to guess at. I would certainly like to think that a lot of writers would like how he is now because it is interesting, but, I mean, look what happened with that Deadpool/Gambit thing. I still have zero idea how that makes any sort of sense within continuity, unless it was set before Siege. It seemed as if that writer had read absolutely nothing from Loki after Siege, and I suspect a bunch of them would fit in that category. I think a lot of writers only know his 'classic' characterization.

I think Loki as the Sorcerer Supreme could be cool, and I am not worried about Wiccan (he's still young, there is plenty of time for him to grow into that role) and it could make sense given that Dr Strange is quite weak power wise right now, unless something has happened recently that I am not aware of. Pretty sure the title holder has to be pretty powerful, not just knowledgeable, and he's not. And as mentioned before, Asgardians, including Loki, seem to be just fine magic wise. But it is Strange's book, not Loki's. Unless a Loki book spins out of it, he kinda has to be the antagonist here, since people are not reading it to see the adventures of Loki doing Sorcerer Supreme stuff.... which makes 'villain' more likely, given his past and all. I mean, Strange has lost the Sorcerer Supreme title before, and it has gone to good people, like Dr Voodoo. But given Loki's past, it's harder to say if this is him being chosen for it or not. Best case scenario for Loki is that he does get a book spinning out of it, while Strange's book deals with him dealing with that, i guess.

Oh, also, this is kind of old news, but this reminded me. For anyone not reading Squirrel girl, Ratatoskr came back at the end of the issue before last. Now, Ryan North IS one writer who i think likes the new Loki, and had clearly read at the very least Agent of Asgard, but considering Ratatoskr was locked up in Asgard last we saw, coupled with the Sorcerer supreme thing, i do have to admit i am a bit worried for Loki...

[Raye]

So I have been waffling back and forth on this the past day or so, and reading up on the title of Sorcerer Supreme to make sure I was right that it has to be granted. I was right about that, there does not seem to be a way to steal the title, except that one time apparently Dormammu said that if the current title holder was killed, then you can take the title that way. But I think that was probably wrong, most other times either the current title holder or the Vishanti have to grant the title, and they can take it away if they think the title holder is either incapable of their duties (which Strange may be currently due to having most of his magic power stripped away) or has failed at them. You can steal the artifacts that come with the title, Eye of Agamotto etc. which Loki has already done once before, but that doesn't make you the Sorcerer Supreme. Also, and I knew this but my worry kind of distracted me from it, but it is not just a bragging rights thing, it does come with responsibilities to protect the dimension from mystical threats. So all that makes me feel better about it, I think. But there are still a couple problems. One, Loki is Asgardian/Frost Giant, and as far as i can gather the Sorcerer Supreme has to be from the dimension in which Earth resides. But then again, I don't think you have to be BORN in the dimension you preside over as Sorcerer Supreme, as Magik demonstrates with Limbo, so if Loki just decided to spend more time in Midgard than in Asgard and associated realms, that could be fine. The biggest problem remains that this is Strange's book, not Loki's. It's not called 'The Sorcerer Supreme' it's called 'Doctor Strange' which seems to place Loki in the role of antagonist here, unless Strange himself has something to do with him being chosen, or is acting as a sort of mentor or whatever (not that I think Loki would take too well to that), or Loki gets a book spinning out of this arc, which is always a possibility. I don't think Marvel is nearly done with announcing new books, and as we saw in the one variant cover for Legacy, Loki was shown alongside the other characters, which could indicate an expanded role for him and/or a new book.

so, yeah, i think i may have gotten over my initial worry somewhat.

*edited much later to add - After seeing the promo art for Legacy, and some speculation that the old timey team may be meant to mirror an upcoming Avengers lineup, this is actually starting to look a lot more interesting. And it potentially makes Loki's Venomized variant for Avengers make a bit more sense. Also, having Loki be the first to mention the old timey Avengers would be fitting. Since if the team is going to all be legacy characters and specifically THOSE legacies, and assuming the title of this Strange arc does not lie, then.... Loki could be joining the Avengers, as the Sorcerer Supreme legacy. Alongside a Thor (WHICH Thor, though? could be his brother, which would have the more satisfying interactions between the two, but if they are going to really push the Legacy angle, then Jane or Volstagg would make more sense) a Phoenix avatar (again, which one? several choices here) a Ghost Rider (my guess would be Robbie cus Legacy, but Johnny seems to be making a comeback), Starbrand, Iron Fist, and Black Panther. I'd hazard a guess that with that lineup, T'Challa would lead. and they would be tackling world ending threats cus holy hell, that is a powerful lineup.

but. that is just fan speculation, it may not happen. but it would make sense with the whole 'Legacy' branding and all.

[rpmaluki]

https://news.marvel.com/comics/68081...ng-flames-war/

I don't know if anyone's posted this or seen this article with Aaron on Loki (among other things), what he's doing and planning for the character. It's been such a drought for this Loki fan, I hope that everything mentioned in this interview (and more) pans out. I may actually looking forward to whatever this Generations/Legacy (not) Marvel's event, if it gives me regular Loki to read. I miss the guy.