Loki Appreciation 2018

[dr4conianlaw]

Oh, looks like we've got a full preview for Doctor Strange now: https://www.newsarama.com/36990-no-o...ge-381.html#s5

There's an explanation for him becoming Sorcerer Supreme (although it's open enough it could be easily elaborated on more later,) Stephan is bitter, Loki is bragging, and... everyone else is Doubtful.

...While it's only based on one page so far, Cates's voice for Loki definitely seems... Different. I actually don't dislike it though, his story manages to fall within the 'maybe jerkish, but morally neutral' range, and I admit it feels great to see him finally seeming to have some fun again.

[Raye]

Interesting. And I don't think his voice sounds off, really. But sounds like Loki got the title through legitimate means, which is good, though the possibility remains that he cheated during the tournament. But some things about that don't fully make sense. Like, if there was a tournament, why were the others not invited to participate? I wonder what the explanation will be for him not (visibly at least) paying the recently retconned in magic cost... But I mean he is a god, and the other Asgardians never showed signs of it, even in Aaron's run, no not sure it NEEDS an explanation... Much like when they added it for Strange, it would contradict so much in the past, that I dunno, kinda wish it was forgotten about or downplayed. A cost is fine, just think they took it too far.

Anyway, read Thor 700, and while it wasn't a bad issue or anything, the Loki bits were... disappointing. It was, aside from teases regarding the future, just more of him moping, pretty much. It explained nothing about what he is up to. And he had a chance to let Laufey die, and did not take it. And also disappointingly the Norns basically said him being the god of stories is meaningless, and he can not shape his own fate.

We did learn though that the necrosword bit is from the far, far future, King Thor's time, so not really relevant to today.

[Del torro]

Interesting. And I don't think his voice sounds off, really. But sounds like Loki got the title through legitimate means, which is good, though the possibility remains that he cheated during the tournament. But some things about that don't fully make sense. Like, if there was a tournament, why were the others not invited to participate? I wonder what the explanation will be for him not (visibly at least) paying the recently retconned in magic cost... But I mean he is a god, and the other Asgardians never showed signs of it, even in Aaron's run, no not sure it NEEDS an explanation... Much like when they added it for Strange, it would contradict so much in the past, that I dunno, kinda wish it was forgotten about or downplayed. A cost is fine, just think they took it too far.

Anyway, read Thor 700, and while it wasn't a bad issue or anything, the Loki bits were... disappointing. It was, aside from teases regarding the future, just more of him moping, pretty much. It explained nothing about what he is up to. And he had a chance to let Laufey die, and did not take it. And also disappointingly the Norns basically said him being the god of stories is meaningless, and he can not shape his own fate.

We did learn though that the necrosword bit is from the far, far future, King Thor's time, so not really relevant to today.

"being God of stories is meaninless" wait, what? I don't even know where to start complaining from, after months of waiting and seeing comments of "let wait and see where Aaron is going with loki"

Agree about the magic stuff. Aaron was writing two magic books at the same time, yet the death of magic in one didn't affect the other, if lokis crossed over and suddenly has problems with his magic it would be weird and inconsistent. I'm hoping they say something like, godly/divine magic is different and tied to the world tree.

If you don't mind can you do a summary thread of #700 or you can post it here

[rpmaluki]

And also disappointingly the Norns basically said him being the god of stories is meaningless, and he can not shape his own fate.

I didn't think the god of stories moniker would feature all that much in future stories but this right here is...disappointing to say the least and honestly not surprising all things considered.

[Riimi]

Yeah, after reading the latest Thor issue, I think I am currently done waiting on Aaron. I'll almost inevitably get sucked back in, especially when the situation around Loki getting the infinity gauntlet heats up, but for now I'm going to focus on the upcoming arc in Doctor Strange.

spoilers:

So, as shown in the previews, the Norns feature heavily in this issue, and at one point it's straight up said (okay, I'm paraphrasing) that, although Loki has tried many times to change his own story, he's not a Norn. Also, it looks like he's...trying to gain approval from Laufey!? Like, my current guess is that he did mean to go undercover but then got caught up into trying to please his bio-dad, esp. after the latter approved of how he handled Freyja. But that's still bleh. Especially implying that he hasn't been able to change anything, because that pretty much negates the entirety of AoA. Also, we're shown that he's still evil in the far future, taking the necrosword in an attempt to kill his brother. Karnilla does cut the threads of fate (and die) in the issue, giving everyone control over their own destinies, but it's a bit of too little for me after everything else in the issue. Especially what seems like the entire negation of like, years of character growth. I was fine with Aaron just glossing over the god of stories aspect because I was worried that it was op, but there's a difference between that and...this. (In the interest of fairness, the Norns say Loki is about as much of a Norn as he is a Frost Giant--I interpreted this to mean a poor one--but he technically is a frost giant. I still think this is too little, esp. with everything else I've gone over).

end of spoilers

[Del torro]

This sounds awful. I don't really see Loki seeking approval from You know who, especially after all his development and what he's been through.

[Raye]

Not sure if it was approval he was seeking so much as knowledge about his mother. Between the caption about him not being a frost giant and him pressing Laufey for information about his mother, coupled with previous hints about Laufey not considering him his son and calling him an 'abomination' I think that is what he was after here. That Loki may not actually be a frost giant, or only a partial one. But not like that makes it much better. Whether he is a full frost giant or not hasn't much concerned him for the past several thousand years, so why should he care all of a sudden now? How does that at all affect him now, after so long of it not affecting him beyond making him a bit of an outsider among the Asgardians? Unless his mother is Freyja herself, this changes nothing. And if he has sided with Malekith all this time just so he can learn if he is a giant or not, then that is pretty shitty. There is the possibility he wasn't exactly being truthful about what happened, Laufey fell, and then when we come back to things, Loki had already dealt with the situation, we never actually saw it occur. So he could have stepped out and done something else in those hours Laufey was out, the pile of bodies might have been an illusion or something. But that doesn't go a long way to explain it.

Reslly though, yeah, that the ending of Agent of Agard was basically thrown out with a single caption is what irks me the most.

[rpmaluki]

Well I definitely didn't see that coming. spoilers:

Why Laufey of all people? I was looking forward to something intriguing with the frost giants but not this. He already has enough daddy issues with Odin, he doesn't need to add Laufey to his problems.

end of spoilers Makes me glad I never read TMT except for the issue with all the Loki's. Saved myself the anguish.

[Riimi]

Not sure if it was approval he was seeking so much as knowledge about his mother. Between the caption about him not being a frost giant and him pressing Laufey for information about his mother, coupled with previous hints about Laufey not considering him his son and calling him an 'abomination' I think that is what he was after here. That Loki may not actually be a frost giant, or only a partial one. But not like that makes it much better. Whether he is a full frost giant or not hasn't much concerned him for the past several thousand years, so why should he care all of a sudden now? How does that at all affect him now, after so long of it not affecting him beyond making him a bit of an outsider among the Asgardians? Unless his mother is Freyja herself, this changes nothing. And if he has sided with Malekith all this time just so he can learn if he is a giant or not, then that is pretty shitty. There is the possibility he wasn't exactly being truthful about what happened, Laufey fell, and then when we come back to things, Loki had already dealt with the situation, we never actually saw it occur. So he could have stepped out and done something else in those hours Laufey was out, the pile of bodies might have been an illusion or something. But that doesn't go a long way to explain it.

Reslly though, yeah, that the ending of Agent of Agard was basically thrown out with a single caption is what irks me the most.

I wasn't sure how to interpret spoilers:

the scene with Laufey

end of spoilers, so I just threw in my best guess. I didn't think about Loki possibly wanting to find his mother being the reason for going along with it--I took his comments as more of seeking reassurance that she hadn't hated him--but you could well be right.

Also, because this amuses me, more than I think it has any possibility of being true: spoilers:

If you do take the caption hyper-literally, and his mother's not a frost giant, then he's only half frost giant. If he's as much of a Norn as a frost giant,=> his mom's one of the Norns.

end of spoilers But this is more me making crazy theories for the fun of it, because I'm salty af; I took the caption at face value that he wasn't able to change his fate.

Edit: Re-reading, the full quote is spoilers:

[Loki] is about as much a Norn...as he is a giant.

end of spoilers So--the implication I get from it is a very bad one. Which, again, blargh.

[Raye]

I would have liked this more if it had come a lot earlier. Laufey coming back was one thing i was initially pretty interested in. But at this point, things have just been drawn out for so long with nothing of any interest being done with it, that I just don't really care any more, I just want to move on to the next thing. And if he's not a full blooded giant, i mean, first off, that's something that's been wildly inconsistent over the years anyway, sometimes he is referred to as a half-giant, sometimes a full giant, but the reason for that is that IT DOESN'T MATTER. He's Loki, he is his own thing, his genetics are irrelevant. And Loki basically said so himself in Aaron's run, to Laufey no less, so this is kind of extra baffling. But there have been so many little hints dropped about his parentage that I am pretty sure there is something there.

Also, I could actually see Loki going along with Malekith's plans until the Norns could be taken out, then he turns around and backstabs him once that is done. It would at least be consistent with his desires over the past several years in a way. But that would still be undoing the end of Agent of Asgard, which sucks, and it's still causing a great deal of suffering just so he can have freedom over his destiny, which, as mentioned, he had already achieved.

[Riimi]

I would have liked this more if it had come a lot earlier. Laufey coming back was one thing i was initially pretty interested in. But at this point, things have just been drawn out for so long with nothing of any interest being done with it, that I just don't really care any more, I just want to move on to the next thing. And if he's not a full blooded giant, i mean, first off, that's something that's been wildly inconsistent over the years anyway, sometimes he is referred to as a half-giant, sometimes a full giant, but the reason for that is that IT DOESN'T MATTER. He's Loki, he is his own thing, his genetics are irrelevant. And Loki basically said so himself in Aaron's run, to Laufey no less, so this is kind of extra baffling. But there have been so many little hints dropped about his parentage that I am pretty sure there is something there.

Also, I could actually see Loki going along with Malekith's plans until the Norns could be taken out, then he turns around and backstabs him once that is done. It would at least be consistent with his desires over the past several years in a way. But that would still be undoing the end of Agent of Asgard, which sucks, and it's still causing a great deal of suffering just so he can have freedom over his destiny, which, as mentioned, he had already achieved.

Completely agree. It seems like it's trying to hint that there's something "there", as you say, with his parentage, but I dislike the principle that parentage matters in such a way (in addition to everything you bring up about it, argh).

As a matter of fact, "Argh" pretty much sums up my reaction to Loki's role in this issue. I also find it terribly disrespectful to Ewing.

[juan678]

[Raye]

Completely agree. It seems like it's trying to hint that there's something "there", as you say, with his parentage, but I dislike the principle that parentage matters in such a way (in addition to everything you bring up about it, argh).

As a matter of fact, "Argh" pretty much sums up my reaction to Loki's role in this issue. I also find it terribly disrespectful to Ewing.

Yeah, like, so he finds out he's half giant and half... whatever. or, since it's possible Laufey isn't even the father, Loki's mother could have lied or something, maybe not even a giant at all. How is that supposed to impact him, really? I mean, he's still going to be an outsider who was adopted by Odin, his personality and all his abilities won't suddenly change, and he already uses magic to make himself look like an Asgardian, so... I mean, I get that people who are adopted get curious about their birth parents, sure. But there are limits to how far one should go to find out, and at a certain point one should realize that ultimately it doesn't matter, it won't change who he is. Given that Loki is thousands of years old, and killed Laufey himself that one time, I'd think Loki already realizes this. I mean, maybe he gets to change his last name from Laufeyson, that was the initial hint that this was going to be an issue, back after he stabbed Freyja and he was talking to Cul. But i mean, sure he gets to divorce himself from Laufey if it is true, but that still doesn't make him an Odinson, (in name, i mean, I'd argue that he is in practice) which is apparently what he wants.

[Del torro]

Yeah, like, so he finds out he's half giant and half... whatever. or, since it's possible Laufey isn't even the father, Loki's mother could have lied or something, maybe not even a giant at all. How is that supposed to impact him, really? I mean, he's still going to be an outsider who was adopted by Odin, his personality and all his abilities won't suddenly change, and he already uses magic to make himself look like an Asgardian, so... I mean, I get that people who are adopted get curious about their birth parents, sure. But there are limits to how far one should go to find out, and at a certain point one should realize that ultimately it doesn't matter, it won't change who he is. Given that Loki is thousands of years old, and killed Laufey himself that one time, I'd think Loki already realizes this. I mean, maybe he gets to change his last name from Laufeyson, that was the initial hint that this was going to be an issue, back after he stabbed Freyja and he was talking to Cul. But i mean, sure he gets to divorce himself from Laufey if it is true, but that still doesn't make him an Odinson, (in name, i mean, I'd argue that he is in practice) which is apparently what he wants.

What of loki is half Norn, half frost Giant, and the statement "He is as much a Norn as he is a giant" means something else. Meh, just a theory

[Rosebunse]

I had a very different take away from this issue.

I don't think Loki is a Norn or really a giant. I mean, the problem is Laufey, who definitely wouldn't raise a child that didn't belong to him. And honestly, I think just what Loki is is an interesting question that I've been wondering about for years. Given that we don't see any Frost Giant like him, well, where did he come from? And why shouldn't he be concerned about it? Before he didn't have Laufey to ask and his Asgardian family likely doesn't know at all. So it makes sense that he would be asking now.

But if he is a Norn, then what is the story there? Did Fabuti magically get knocked up and Laufey, for whatever reason, couldn't kill the resulting child? This even brings up the question of why Laufey didn't kill him when he was a baby. I mean, Laufey surely can't stand weakness and here's his child that his small and weak and who knows what else. Why kill Fabuti and not Loki? Why would Fabuti kill herself?

And also, I don't think that this issue is making the claim that Loki has no chance at redeeming himself, just that it's very hard to change and not so hard to relapse into old patterns. It's easy for him to be a bad person, it's easy for him to hurt others, it's easy for him to be Loki. And there's no running away to Asgard for a feast or running away for Thor when things get tough anymore. He only has Laufey, someone who is happy to feed into his worst and most violent tendencies.

Loki still has a chance here, but it's a lot easier for him not to take it.