Loki Appreciation 2018

[Rosebunse]

I interpreted the end of the bar scene as him (accidentally) teleporting everyone out of the bar. Whatever the logistics, it was nice in both showing how much power he has and showing that he still loses his cool when his competence is called into question, even when ostensibly being good. (And does he seem a bit more powerful here? I guess I'm not used to a fully-powered Loki enough to know how hard he should hit, and we haven't seen him use too much magic in TMT. I was already wondering if he didn't go all out in his fight against Jane--he was definitely conflicted during it--and I'd like to think this confirms it. Not saying he would necessarily win in an all-out fight against her, but it would be quite the fight).

I was also trying to figure out the timeline, because I wanted to say that the first thing he did after Fate was snapped was become Sorcerer Supreme, but then realized I'm not sure if that would work. I don't think he was Sorcerer Supreme yet during the last issue of Thor, when we see him in Jotunheim. There must have been some time before that issue and when the Mangog arrived, which would mean it was pretty much the first thing he did. Looking back, I think he may have just gone with Malekith for lack of other options and was too scared of being rejected/having it not work to try to be good again (especially after having his parley with Jane fall apart and seeing no other option but to stab Freyja), which is why he was miserable but didn't do anything. He could have meant to eventually betray him, but rather in the way I mean to clean my room--preferably, tomorrow.


In the Sims, since you've had them all living together, I could just see Loki and Strange becoming friends in a total free-will campaign, and being all like "Nooo, you're doing it wrong."

I don't know, we've seen what AoA Loki could do in Young Avengers when he basically almost killed everyone by having a bad PTSD breakdown. And we know he's caused a ton of damage in King Thor's future. Loki is a competent fighter, we know that, but it's his potential for cosmic destruction that is often debated. In this story, he still seems to be the God of Stories in some fashion and is one of the few beings not to be destroyed by the Incursions. He seems to be able to channel other Lokis into him or something. Either he teleported the building or teleported everyone inside of the building, it's a pretty big display of power, especially since I would assume that said building, being a bar for Marvel's magic users, was probably warded to heck just in case someone tried something against it.

The fact is, the power of Thor isn't something to be taken lightly. But Loki was obviously distracted during the fight and seemed like he really didn't want to actually hurt Jane. He didn't want to hurt anyone and as you pointed out, really had no option but to hurt Freyja. He had to offer up something then and there or Malekith would realize that Loki was playing him.

And I'm not sure Malekith isn't going to still betray Loki. Well, of course he is! Him and Laufey both are probably planning to betray Loki, who as we see in this issue, still considers himself of the house of Odin. Can't have that.

You have to give them really opposing traits, but they're so similar! The problem is if you aren't having Zelma be romanced by Strange first, then there's no reason for Strange to hate him so much.

[Raye]

So, i checked out some comments from outside the Loki fandom on like Twitter and stuff, and I think we are definitely going to see some people being a bit surprised by Loki, or just not getting him, or at least not the CURRENT Loki. A lot of people just assuming every word out of his mouth was pure, undiluted bullshit, much like the characters did, so they are clearly not quite up to speed on his character development. And that could actually prove beneficial to the story, i guess, but it is still a little frustrating to see. I can kinda get where he's coming from in this issue

I interpreted the end of the bar scene as him (accidentally) teleporting everyone out of the bar. Whatever the logistics, it was nice in both showing how much power he has and showing that he still loses his cool when his competence is called into question, even when ostensibly being good. (And does he seem a bit more powerful here? I guess I'm not used to a fully-powered Loki enough to know how hard he should hit, and we haven't seen him use too much magic in TMT. I was already wondering if he didn't go all out in his fight against Jane--he was definitely conflicted during it--and I'd like to think this confirms it. Not saying he would necessarily win in an all-out fight against her, but it would be quite the fight).

oh, I don't think it was accidental at all. he totally lost his cool and.. well, i read it as him vanishing the bar, but could have also been him teleporting them out into the street, but his dialogue 'what bar?' implied to me that he made it vanish. It's possible the bar never technically existed in the first place, being a sort of complex illusion, or pocket dimension or something, and he just dispelled it. Either way though, I do think it was done as a 'take that' quite intentionally. Maybe not something he would have done if he had kept his cool, but he didn't, so...

I was also trying to figure out the timeline, because I wanted to say that the first thing he did after Fate was snapped was become Sorcerer Supreme, but then realized I'm not sure if that would work. I don't think he was Sorcerer Supreme yet during the last issue of Thor, when we see him in Jotunheim. There must have been some time before that issue and when the Mangog arrived, which would mean it was pretty much the first thing he did. Looking back, I think he may have just gone with Malekith for lack of other options and was too scared of being rejected/having it not work to try to be good again (especially after having his parley with Jane fall apart and seeing no other option but to stab Freyja), which is why he was miserable but didn't do anything. He could have meant to eventually betray him, but rather in the way I mean to clean my room--preferably, tomorrow.

timelines are always tricky, but I think the events in Mighty Thor at the moment come first, since it seems to have been an unbroken chain of events for the past several months, but we seem to have a bit of a time-skip on our hands with Doctor Strange, I'd guess at least 2 months. then again, Loki hasn't appeared much, so all this could have been happening off panel. It certainly would have helped pin it down if Loki had appeared in Thor this month, but maybe next month. But with Strange coming out twice next month, next issue is on the 6th of December, and the 20th after that according to Comixology, it will get even further ahead, since next issue of Thor isn't until the 20th. Also, Aaron is pacing his story slow, and Cates is known for his quick pacing, so this will be a bit of a problem, maybe. But with Jane appearing this early, I am kinda thinking the double shipping may be to get her appearances in early, before things go pear shaped for her in Mighty Thor. but as with a lot of things in comics, probably just best to not over think it.

I don't know, we've seen what AoA Loki could do in Young Avengers when he basically almost killed everyone by having a bad PTSD breakdown. And we know he's caused a ton of damage in King Thor's future. Loki is a competent fighter, we know that, but it's his potential for cosmic destruction that is often debated. In this story, he still seems to be the God of Stories in some fashion and is one of the few beings not to be destroyed by the Incursions. He seems to be able to channel other Lokis into him or something. Either he teleported the building or teleported everyone inside of the building, it's a pretty big display of power, especially since I would assume that said building, being a bar for Marvel's magic users, was probably warded to heck just in case someone tried something against it.

Just because the Norns dismissed him being the God of Stories doesn't mean Loki would have stopped thinking of himself that way. He doesn't know what they said, after all.

I think there will always be a bit of a tug of war over Loki's power levels. On the one hand, he's a god and a sorcerer, so he should be super powerful, on the other, make him too powerful and it becomes difficult to challenge him. So I kind of try and disregard the two extremes when it's shown, to an extent, since I know it will only be somewhere n the middle that most people agree, and where he will fall most often on the power scale. But I do still think he's definitely in the upper range of power for the MU. And he would have to be one of the top magic users to even become the Sorcerer Supreme, i mean, that's kinda the whole point.

The fact is, the power of Thor isn't something to be taken lightly. But Loki was obviously distracted during the fight and seemed like he really didn't want to actually hurt Jane. He didn't want to hurt anyone and as you pointed out, really had no option but to hurt Freyja. He had to offer up something then and there or Malekith would realize that Loki was playing him.

And I'm not sure Malekith isn't going to still betray Loki. Well, of course he is! Him and Laufey both are probably planning to betray Loki, who as we see in this issue, still considers himself of the house of Odin. Can't have that.

He stabbed Freyja not to impress Malekith, but to protect her. If he didn't poison her and put her in a coma, Malekith would have sent assassins to kill her. Better in a coma by his hand, than probably dead by someone elses. I am sure it did help convince Malekith he was on his side, and that may be why he chose to stab her out in the open, rather than quietly poison her drink or something, but Loki's primary motivation was to save her life. but yes, I think Malekith and Laufey will at least try to betray Loki, (hell, they already have, back during that first fight with Thor, and Loki has commented that Laufey is constantly trying to kill him) but I suspect Loki is smart enough to be able to see that coming from a mile off. though probably not be able to predict the precise moment and means of the betrayal, so he'll still have to be careful, but I doubt he will be surprised in the slightest when it does happen.

In the Sims, since you've had them all living together, I could just see Loki and Strange becoming friends in a total free-will campaign, and being all like "Nooo, you're doing it wrong."

You have to give them really opposing traits, but they're so similar! The problem is if you aren't having Zelma be romanced by Strange first, then there's no reason for Strange to hate him so much.

Loki and Strange don't hate each other, but they don't exactly like each other. I made sure they shared no favorites, (though Loki and Zelma share a couple) and they actually don't share any traits, either, i don't think, aside from 'Supernatural Fan' because of course i had to give all 3 of them that. Also, Strange has the 'Proper' trait, and Loki has 'Rebellious' and i think those two are just different enough that it keeps them from being natural friends. Loki and Zelma though got along great. And one of the first things i did after kicking Strange out of the house was take Loki and Zelma on a date, because while it is not expressly confirmed in the comic, I'm pretty sure there is something there. They don't have the official relationship status yet, but they're getting there. So they come out of the movie theater and I have them interacting, and Strange (and random woman in hideous outfit) is just standing there, creeping on them. He jeered and taunted at them a bit too, i don't think he liked seeing Zelma with Loki, though I tried my damnedest to not let Strange and Zelma do any of the romantic conversation options. (but you never know, they may have when i wasn't paying attention)



So yeah, I have things rolling there with Loki and Zelma, so will get Strange going on his veterinary career, give him the new buzzcut hair, and that's it till next issue, i guess. I also have enough lifetime points to give him the 'midlife crisis' and re-choose his traits should it become necessary. I am thinking though, I should maybe create Doreen and Nancy, since they would be some canonical friends for Loki, and he will be appearing in Squirrel Girl as the Sorcerer Supreme. I also need to fill out my town a bit more, anyway. I could also move Thor in somewhere. either one, or both. But if i add Jane, I may have to kill her at some point, and then i also have to choose between frail, sickly Jane or buff, strong Thor.

[Raye]

oh my god, i hit the character limit... tried to edit it down to add this, but gave up. anyway...

Looks like i may also need to make Wanda as well, to fill out the Strange side of thngs, but will wait until next issue to decide that. She was freaking hilarious when I did my Avengers Mansion playthrough a few years back. She had the 'insane' trait, and turns out that when you give that to a Witch, they turn people into frogs. CONSTANTLY. She had the ENTIRE mansion aside from Vision (a robot, so immune) and Wasp (a fairy, so also immune) frogified, but her magic and alchemy skills were not high enough to turn them BACK. My whole mansion, just frogs. Everyone. I had to get Loki, who i had living in an apartment elsewhere in the city come in and turn everyone back, and he made a bunch of potions to leave behind for the next time she frogified everyone.

[Riimi]

I realize now that I over-used pronouns in my initial post, leading to confusion--I was attempting to talk about Loki betraying Malekith, instead of the other way around. I'd edit the initial post, but this has already spawned a discussion, so I think this is a better way to address it. I agree that everyone in the dark council is probably expecting a mass stabbery after they reach a certain level of success (though what that level of success is may vary per individual). What I was trying to do, primarily, was talk my way through reasons Loki hadn't acted against Malekith (presumably) before now. I was thinking that maybe Loki meant to but was too self-doubting to act, resulting in him basically procrastinating. To me, it would make sense after Jane's rejection and the Jotun-kid-version of him (lol, so many versions!) saying that he was too scared to do what he really wanted. He wanted to be better, then got rejected by Jane and forced into a position where the best way out was stabbing his mother, forcing him to side with the villains. He's probably been afraid of failing again, with the additional possibility that Fate was fueling his inaction(again/still). Maybe he's still working on plotting something epic, but his decision to act now seems more like he got fed up with Malekith's evil than the result of a grand plan.

I kind of need to look and see how people outside of this forum are interpreting him. As I think I said in my first post after the issue, it's still ambiguous enough I can understand seeing him as his "traditional" villainous self.

[Raye]

Well, though the story is probably going to be cool and all, this is potenitally a blow to the idea that Loki may hang on to the title long term:

http://comicbook.com/marvel/2017/11/...nge-damnation/

this is the relevant bit to this thread:


"Mephisto is the external demon, but what internal demons is Strange wrestling with in this story?

DC: Well, now we're getting into spoiler territory! After the events of my first arc [of the Doctor Strange ongoing series], where we saw Loki take the mantle of Sorcerer Supreme, Stephen is still a little bruised. Both physically and mentally. He just went through hell, and he came out the other side of it with something to prove. He wants to be a hero again. He wants to show everyone that he's back and he's better than ever. He has a lot of work ahead of him to get back on his feet, and he starts this journey in Vegas. And... yeah, it doesn't go super great. "

and...

"Donny, you're writing the ongoing Doctor Strange title, where Loki is apparently taking over as Sorcerer Supreme. How does Damnation interact with that series and the story you're telling in that series?

DC: Well, again, not to get into spoiler territory here, but at the opening of Damnation, Stephen is anxious to get out there and do some good again. He's been sidelined for a bit since the events of Secret Empire and then with the whole Loki thing. So what you'll see here is a Stephen Strange who's anxious to get back to the business of being a hero. Of being the man he used to be. But of course its Stephen, right? So things are going to get a whole lot worse before they ever get better! "

it doesn't say he's the Sorcerer Supreme again, specifically, but 'back and better than ever' kind of implies it. But it also has him kinda fucking things up as he tries to prove himself again.

though, he doesn't have the Cloak of Levitation on the cover, that may be a good sign as far as Loki guess. I dunno, we'll have to keep an eye on that i guess.

I don't mean to be negative about it, it does sound very cool, and I am sure it will be great. and hell, i have actually been hoping for a 'Magic Avengers' book, so... this is basically that. i just really wanted Loki to hang on to the title for more than a few months, is all. and Loki may appear, too, especially if he is still Sorcerer Supreme. Kinda coming in in a 'really, Strange? REALLY?' way. And he does need another crack at Mephisto.


And yeah, I think Loki was likely a bit... I dunno if scared is the right word, exactly but intimidated, maybe? about doing the good thing, like unambiguously. As we saw in Doctor Strange, and with Jane's first meeting with him, no one is ready to accept him in a more heroic role, so it's waaaaaaaay harder for him than it would be for someone else. Not hard in the sense of him struggling to make the right choices (though a bit of that as well, but i think he's kinda already there) but harder in the sense that no one else wants him in their spaces.

[Agatha's Ghost]

Someone in one of the mystical marvel threads on CBR ought to have messaged me privately to inform me about the events of this week's Doctor Strange. A day passed without my having seen the latest issue. Wanda Maximoff and Loki Lauffey are the new stars of the series. How lovely!

[Raye]

Curious how much Wanda will be in it going forward, and how much she goads Strange into action, intentionally or otherwise. She certainly did not seem pleased about the situation, she seemed a lot more upset about it than Strange did, in fact.

[Raye]

!!!!!!!



(even tho they got his costume kinda wrong) I think he is a 2 week goal like Black Widow's costume was, but doable if you are caught up on the event.

[Rosebunse]

OMG! This event means nothing to me if Morbius the Living Vampire isn't in it! NOTHING! Besides, this really just looks like another Midnight Sons, which is why I need this right now!

But really, we knew Loki being in Strange's job wasn't going to last and the first issue shows why. As you said, Raye, no one trusts him and no one is going to trust him no matter what he does. Speaking of the Midnight Sons, the fact is, Stephen Strange is a trusted and beloved leader in the superhero community even if he has done some shitty things, the worst of which most characters know nothing about. And Loki might actually still have the job, but what's it worth if everyone rallies around Strange anyways?

[Rosebunse]

!!!!!!!



(even tho they got his costume kinda wrong) I think he is a 2 week goal like Black Widow's costume was, but doable if you are caught up on the event.

Damn, this came a few years too late. But it's so beautiful! And that horn-hat the other costume has is adorable! So beautiful!

[dr4conianlaw]

Just to be a hopeful counterpoint to what Damnation might mean- it sounds to me like Strange is entering the event on a decided down note, and is trying to recover. That makes me think he might cross a serious line overreacting to Loki having the position, and realize not too long after the fact how close he now is to being a villain himself, and try to backtrack. If so, I doubt he's gonna get the title back for at least a good bit, as he'll have go on a redemptive path to prove he's still worthy first- which would explain him overreaching magic-wise bringing back Las Vegas, he's trying to prove to himself he's still a hero, after having messed up.

It does seem to seriously annoy Loki that people still won't give him the benefit of the doubt even after having 'rightfully' won the title. Actually, that more than anything makes me think there was at least relatively little foul play in him obtaining the title- I'm not sure he'd be quite angry enough to disappear the bar without him being annoyed that even after he went around things properly people still won't respect or even consider trusting him. That's just my read though. At the least, it's telling how immediately he seems to regret his outburst afterwards.

[Raye]

I just wish they had announced Kid Loki at the beginning, I know some people on Reddit were not interested in Korg or Miek, so they just gave up after the first week kinda thing, and I bet some of them are kicking themselves right now.

Well, i dunno if the point of the Sorcerer Supreme is to be a rallying point. I mean, though Strange has teamed up with others, more so recently, I get the impression that they are typically lone wolf types. It is not the superhero community who decides who gets to be the Sorcerer Supreme, it is the Vishanti. Ok, determined by a tournament in this instance (but not always) but still, they oversaw it, and the acceptance of the superhero community would mean jack **** to them. And also, the other heroes do know about some of Strange at his worst. ok, maybe just the Illuminati about the selling his soul bit, but the World War Hulk thing was widely known about.

Plus, I think it would send a shitty message if it ended up being that Loki could only be a hero based on the acceptance of others, that he would just give up because he wasn't liked. I know, his initial motivation was simply to make himself less predictable, but I think he has grown since then. And if he is serious about giving up being a villain, then it should be something he does regardless of what others think. And also, I think that, though he may be frustrated with the response he is getting, he knows it is going to take more than holding a new title for a couple months to really change people's minds. Ok, there was the scene with Thor, but I think that was a little bit act, a little bit momentary low point, which he quickly recovered from. Would he possibly be more effective in his role if he had more acceptance? Probably, yeah, but most of what Strange did, he did alone, he was dealing with threats other heroes were ill equipped to tackle.

But, after an initial bout of worry, I think Loki is still Sorcerer Supreme. 1. This begins in February, that is only five issues in to Cates' run. One in November, two in December, one in January, and February undetermined, but unless this comes out the final week, then probably only one issue that would count. 2. As mentioned, Strange is not wearing the Cloak of Levitation, which Loki has fixed. If he had taken the title back, he would probably take that back too, besides, it doesn't even match Loki's outfit, so I doubt he would be overly possessive of it, he is wearing it now as a symbol of his position. 3. We still have the whole Final Host thing looming on the horizon. So I think what is going on is that Strange is trying to prove he can be a hero without the title. It is as I keep pointing out, and was pointed out in the first issue, which kind of validated my thoughts on that, when Strange first sought to reclaim what he had lost, he failed, he ended up in a new role where he could do some good in a different way than he had before. So if this is really a mirror of his origin, then him finding a new role would make some sense.

Ps. And also, pretty sure he and Magik, and yes, even Morbius have a high chance of appearing. Given that Cates is one of the writers, he would not just ignore Loki, pretty sure. But I am guessing they can't mention or show him for fear of spoilers about Doctor Strange.

Pps. Man I had a lot to say in this thread today. But it is bed time, so I will be shutting up now.

[Digifiend]

Damn, this came a few years too late. But it's so beautiful! And that horn-hat the other costume has is adorable! So beautiful!

That other one was Loki's very first alternate costume in the game, as the beach event was the first one they did, it was a mini-event with only costumes and decorations, rather than the bigger events with new heroes that they've done since.

[Rosebunse]

I think the difference between Strange and Loki is that Strange had help if he wanted it. He has friends and allies who were going to jump at the call to help him no matter what the threat. Loki doesn't have that really at all at this point. That's what makes his scene with Jane so important to not just this title, but to Thor and Loki's thing with the Final Host: You get the feeling that even if Jane will never like Loki or want to deal with him if she doesn't have to, she'll at least offer him help when he really needs it.

The fact is, having friends and allies isn't just useful for your self-esteem. Going into something totally alone is very dangerous. Loki doesn't really have anyone he can turn to if things go bad. No one is going to come and save him if and when the Dark Council turns on him. So while I'm sure he has some plan to get out of there before that happens, it's not really a pleasant thought.

And this magical event could easily still involve Loki being Sorcerer Supreme. He is obviously focused on the situation in Asgard and the Celestial Host, which to be fair, are both two situations that should take up his time and worry. It's not like Loki respects Mephisto, so I can totally see him leaving Mephisto to Strange and the other characters to deal with. As for the cloak, does it even work? Like, did Loki sewing it back together with magical thread-I just love how proud of himself he is for fixing it himself-he spun himself really restore its magical powers? Is Loki wearing it because it's practical? Or is he wearing it because he thinks it makes him look like the Sorcerer Supreme and he's trying to gain legitimacy?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Marvel/comm..._in_portrayed/

Also, here's this link to this interesting discussion. I just think it's interesting how far away the comics have gotten from the myths and I don't think that's a bad thing.

[Raye]

I think the difference between Strange and Loki is that Strange had help if he wanted it. He has friends and allies who were going to jump at the call to help him no matter what the threat. Loki doesn't have that really at all at this point. That's what makes his scene with Jane so important to not just this title, but to Thor and Loki's thing with the Final Host: You get the feeling that even if Jane will never like Loki or want to deal with him if she doesn't have to, she'll at least offer him help when he really needs it.

The fact is, having friends and allies isn't just useful for your self-esteem. Going into something totally alone is very dangerous. Loki doesn't really have anyone he can turn to if things go bad. No one is going to come and save him if and when the Dark Council turns on him. So while I'm sure he has some plan to get out of there before that happens, it's not really a pleasant thought.

It is still something the Vishanti would not care one tiny bit about. That is his own personal business to deal with. The Vishanti are so removed from the day to day workings of world that they'd have next to no idea about that sort of internal politics of the superhero community. Zero. They are overseeing the safety of multiple dimensions, and the entire universe of this dimension, not just Earth. So that shouldn't be factoring into their decision in the slightest. Only whether the person has the magical ability required (which is presumably whey it is often decided by tournament), and once the title granted, if they uphold their duties. If it hinders his ability to do his job, then yeah, they'd care, but I don't think Loki strictly needs others to be effective, he's managed just fine mostly on his own until now, I don't see why that shouldn't continue. That's how he works best as a character, frankly. I mean, sure it would be nice to see him change some minds, but more as an indicator that he's made it, not because I want him to be solving problems by calling on friends.

And this magical event could easily still involve Loki being Sorcerer Supreme. He is obviously focused on the situation in Asgard and the Celestial Host, which to be fair, are both two situations that should take up his time and worry. It's not like Loki respects Mephisto, so I can totally see him leaving Mephisto to Strange and the other characters to deal with. As for the cloak, does it even work? Like, did Loki sewing it back together with magical thread-I just love how proud of himself he is for fixing it himself-he spun himself really restore its magical powers? Is Loki wearing it because it's practical? Or is he wearing it because he thinks it makes him look like the Sorcerer Supreme and he's trying to gain legitimacy?

Loki needs payback vs Mephisto. Sure, that was Kid Loki, but I think Loki would still want to have another go at him. And if he is still Sorcerer supreme, then just ignoring Mephisto would be him neglecting his duties, that really WOULD cause the Vishanti to reconsider his appointment.

and i didn't really see a huge amount of pride with that statement about the cloak. Just... a statement of fact. He did what was necessary to fix it, that's all, even if it was difficult. I don't think he was bragging, just trying to illustrate that he was taking the role seriously. He was sad that no one seemed to care about that, but I think it was just part of the overall sadness about the situation. And i presume it still works, judging by the cover. Also, why bother with magic thread if it's just a regular cloak now?

so. um, does anyone have an account here to change this page? http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Sorcerer_Supreme