Loki Appreciation 2018

[Raye]

It's not even that Reed screwed up, necessarily, most of that was true before Secret Wars as well. What's different is that we may be viewing a universe with a predestined future and no way out, rather than the open ended one that Marvel typically follows, where the future can be changed (or more accurately, the focus jumps to a new universe where things were done differently) What might be different is that, at least for the time being, universes no longer fracture when a divergent path comes along naturally, rather they are all created by Reed and Franklin and have fixed futures. A bad one, in this case.

I don't think he needs to be the god of Stories. I think that is overselling the power that comes with that role. But it could be that it plays a part. I just hope it is not in a finger snap, *poof* sort of way, (unless assisted by the Infinity Gems as a temporary powerup) more of a Kid Loki rewriting Cul's story sort of way. That was a big problem i had with the end of Agent of Asgard. While I liked the thematic change, I think it portrayed him as WAAAAAAY too powerful to do anything really interesting with him going forward, he seemed pretty much both omnipotent and omniscient, which is just too much.

As for Loki time travelling... well, only King Loki did that, and I just took that it mean that he had learned some new tricks in between then and now. The only time present Loki was able to do the same (when he killed Laufey) he required Hela's assistance. So no, I don't think jumping around in time is something Loki's going to be able to do very easily.

Anyway, I was listening to some music and after my last post, this jumped out at me as perfect for Loki at the moment:


And I know metal vocals can be hard to understand even if you are into it, (though this one is mostly clean vocals) and I know my tastes probably run a whole lot heavier than most in this thread, so here's the lyrics:
https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/avatar/bloodyangel.html

Or maybe.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxT-NNZMD-k

bonus - Jane Thor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNRViWBT2gY
This one is almost eerily spot on, (though there are a couple typos in the lyrics on that video. it should be 'no cause to be alarmed' not 'alive' among others. but you get the gist, anyway) but there is a reason for that. It comes from Mastodon's album Emperor of Sand, which is a concept album about fighting a losing battle against cancer, after several of the band members had loved ones go through their own fights with cancer, some successfully, others not.

So that's Loki and both Thors (Stand Up and Fight for OG Thor seems pretty spot on) covered, I'd have to see more about where Balder is at right now to get one for him...

[Rosebunse]

Well, I listened to songs from that Rapunzel show on Disney and some of Varian's songs are spot on for Loki. Because secretly, I'm apparently a 13 year old girl with a bad fandom addiction.

As for the time traveling, we see King Loki manage a ton of time traveling and the current Loki also manages to go about the universe at will.

I don't think Loki is over powered so much as he was against an opponent who was too strong for their own good. Those beings-be they the Beyonders or the beings who control the Asgardians or whoever-didn't consider what could happen if they did complete their murder spree and they clearly weren't really prepared for anyone opposing them. And Loki took advantage of that and then left before anyone could find hI'm again.

Loki's problem now is that Thor, the Asgardians, Laufey, and Malekith all are used to dealing with him to differing extents. If Loki really tried talking any of them to death, he risks losing his mouth or permanently losing his head. They know what he can do and they're all expecting it.

To farther power down Loki, the character has no real allies. That's what makes his potential team up with his brothers so exciting! We know he'll probably try and screw them over, but I assume they both know that too.

[Riimi]

I'm hoping Loki doesn't screw them over, unless it's like in the Tenth Realm mini and it turns out he's actually doing his best to help them (in a very Loki way).

[Raye]

How he dealt with Those Who Sit Above In Shadow wasn't even what I was thinking of when I said that. That bit wasn't what I had a problem with, actually. It was when he stored away all the Asgardians with a hand wave, (something we now know wasn't even necessary, it was a gratuitous display of power) how he knew exactly what was happening in Battleworld suddenly, etc. None of that involved talking anyone to death, it was just *poof*. Handwaves all round.

And yes, King Loki time traveled, but that was Loki with thousands of years more experience, and it was my understanding that he was supposed to be significantly more powerful than present day Loki. And teleporting within the universe (with the aid of Malekith's 'dark bifrost' most of the time, it should be noted) is way different than teleporting through time or the multiverse.

I just don't see how he needs more power, like unlimited time travel or whatever. He is already kinda stupid powerful, that no one trusts him doesn't really affect that. His inherent abilities from being an Asgardian and his sorcery do not rely on anyone trusting him. It is plenty, he is already just a hair away from being a walking deus ex machina. If he was given the ability to solve everything with a snap of his fingers by rewriting the story/reality on a prmanent basis, or infinite do-overs, he suffers as a character, because he no longer has to work for his victories or figure anything out. I am cool with him having future knowledge, as long as it was from a one time info dump into his brain, and thus could have limitations and holes in the knowledge, which is why I like the absorbing of memories idea. If it is just because he is now omniscient, no, I don't like that. And in a similar vein, I am ok with the Infinity Gauntlet, as long as he doesn't keep it.

And I don't think Loki will be screwing Thor over. If you read the latest issue of Thor, a couple things about what Loki has been doing make more sense now. It shows that he has prepared for the current situation. (and demonstrates more future knowledge) Remember when he asked for a church to be built? That wasn't to give himself power, that is now clear. Seems to me, he and the other Asgardians need things like churches dedicated to them for when Mangog comes back. Mangog is not dead, it will escape, eventually. (and bring the original Mjolnir back with it. That King Thor has the original Mjolnir in the future demonstrates this) And Gorr is still going to come back in the future, as well. The Asgardians only real defense is to prove it wrong about them. They have to become worthy of humanity by answering prayers and helping humanity, thus they can escape his judgement of them. So yeah, Loki asking for a big church shows that he knew this would happen, and what was needed to avert it, though it was too late to stop it the first time around. It should also be noted that Loki has pursued 2 positions that involved serving humanity in some way. What remains to be seen is if he intends to escape judgement just by himself, or if he is going to help the other Asgardians achieve that as well. I suspect the latter.

Also, the Asgardians are on the moon now, so the 'moon king' tease could be coming to fruition, finally.

[Riimi]

I agree that it could be too powerful (and would be, if kept in the long run). I mostly like the idea that he's been stuck in this horrible timeloop of bad futures, though, because I like feeling sorry for people. However, thinking about it, you're right, the infinite do-overs would still be op, unless there was a twist like each failure making that future harder and harder to change. Basically, this would have to be his last chance . I like the idea, but it would also need a lot of massaging to not make him be omfg powerful, which might get overly complicated. The memory one is much more straightforward.

I hadn't considered his whole thing about building a church being related to the Mangog, and I'm not 100% sold, but it's definitely worth consideration. I'm mostly reluctant to accept the idea because I'd like to believe that he's trying to serve humanity because he's become a better person and not solely out of self-interest. If there ends up being self-interest there, that's okay, everyone has some, I just don't want it to be his only or driving motivation. I think that's partly why I don't want to see him backstab Thor (or even Balder)--after so long waiting in the wings for something with him, I want to see some character growth. And I especially don't want to see character regression, since AoA Loki was pretty loyal to Thor (albeit in his own way).

Also, I'm totally looking forward to his re-union with Thori. Thori really parallels him nicely and always has; the whole 'horrible betrayal' only adds to this, but expands it to include Loki beyond just Kid. So, I think he'll be mad, then realize what he's saying, and end up forgiving his dog. Preferably, by telling him to sit.

[Raye]

I just don't see the need to involve a lot of time travel here, when we already have something that works:



I mean, it's already happened on panel, it explains everything we are seeing, and doesn't muddy things up by being needlessly complicated when this is a sub plot. Constant do-overs worked in Groundhog Day, (though, that was involuntary so not quite the same but still) because it was the premise of the entire movie, so we got to see all the failed attempts (well, a bunch of them anyway) to escape the loop, and explore what being stuck in the loop meant for him as a character. This is a sub plot in what is ultimately Thor's story. We only see it in the background, so there isn't a lot of room to get into a lot of intricacies. And if he had this ability... why didn't he do a time rewind to prevent Strange from releasing the Void and a few other things that have gone wrong? I mean, the Void thing is easy to fix, just hop back and not demand Strange open that door this time around.

While I do agree that doing it for selfish reasons would kinda suck, I can't really think of any other reason to have him ask for a church. I mean... why? We were asking that at the time with no satisfying answer, 'miss(ing) the prayers' just seems a bit weak as a motivation there, and the Mangog thing and being worthy gods just fits, it's been the overarching theme right from God of Thunder. I don't think the church thing would necessarily be out of self interest though. Not entirely, anyway. I mean, yeah, it would be saving himself, but there have to be easier ways to save his own hide if that's all he's concerned about. He said to Freyja last issue he could teleport her where Mangog would not find her in a million years, and if he can do that for her, he can do that for himself as well. And it also saves Asgard and by extension the rest of the world, because what is needed is to help people. Granted, he may also be creating a situation that will cause a lot of people to pray to Thor to save them, and that would be kinda shitty... but I am hoping that is not the case.

And yeah, the Thori thing should be really interesting, and it does offer a nice parallel. He kinda has to forgive Thori if he wants Thor to do the same for him. He'd be a total hypocrite to do otherwise.

[Rosebunse]

I think the most significant part of the "new" Loki is his ability to connect to the mortal world. And this isn't some trick on his part, he just really likes bacon and movies and the internet and his cellphone. And mortals seem better able to connect with him as well. Even if he isn't always a good person, he actually might be the only Asgardian-aside from Thor-who can create a church for himself and actually get followers. Some of those followers will be nuts, but you know, that's what you get sometimes.

[Raye]

I am wondering if they will be using Loki's crazy cultists as a counterpoint to Thor's more reasonable followers. I mean, would Mangog think it was enough to simply answer prayers even if they are crazy and/or bad? Or do you only answer the prayers that are good? Technically the problem both Gorr and Mangog had was the not answering of prayers, they did not specify WHICH prayers. And what happens if two people pray to the same god for something contradictory but not necessarily better or worse than the other? What about someone who prays for something impossible? or on the other hand, something trivial that they could do their own damn self? are there a finite number or prayers to answer? i mean, they may be powerful but they are not omnipotent and they can not be everywhere at once. When you get into the answering prayers business, there are some technicalities that must be addressed.

And actually, there are a growing number of people following Norse heathenism of late in the real world, many thousands of them. But, though many, most even, of them are wonderful people, it's also become quite popular among white supremacists, which could play into what I said above, but they may use a more quirky example of Loki's bizarre cultists praying he do ... something.... to a goat, like in Vote Loki, (which he ignored) rather than the 'white power' Odinists. (they tend to be Odinists specifically that are the white supremacists. The good ones tend to call themselves Norse Heathens, or Asatru, at least in North America, though the lines are fuzzy)

Either way, I don't actually think they ought to have trouble getting followers, there ought to be a bunch of them already in place. Especially since in the MU, everyone knows the Norse gods are real. But as you say, that Loki has a better understanding of the earth as it is right now rather than how it was a few hundred years ago might work in his favor. The whole thing with the truck and the big ass gun may play into that for all 3 of the brothers, though I do think Loki is the most in touch out of the 3 of them, though at least Thor knows how to use a computer and such, even if he doesn't particularly enjoy them. Balder tho... he's been stuck in Hel for a while now, I doubt he's keeping up with Twitter

[Rosebunse]

But isn't that the question about God and religion? How are prayers answered and whose prayers are being answered? Isn't faith about accepting that your prayers aren't always answered?

And Gorr's life sucked, no lie, but his rampage across the universe wasn't really the way to solve anything. It's very much like the white supremacists, who might have legitimate complaints but who then go about fixing them in the worst way possible.

You can't expect your prayers to always be answered because, well, "God works in mysterious ways." And sometimes the answer to these prayers is "no."

[Raye]

That's kinda what i was getting at. Gorr and Mangog were bad guys with a point, if we have gods, it's fair to expect them to actually help people and answer prayers. But they may have taken things too far. They may be gods, but we are not dealing with the omnipotent variety, they have limits, they can not solve EVERY problem, or cater to every whim. There comes a point where you just become demanding and entitled. There has to be a happy medium, not skewed too far in either direction.

[Raye]

So, I updated my Sims game the last few days. shuffling everyone around took longer than I expected, but it's done. and look what I found as a mod:


(pic is taken in build mode because it's winter which does weird things with the car windows, hence the grid)

the flames went a bit wonky across the hood and roof, and it doesn't have a rollbar, skulls or big ass gun, and really, it should be something closer to a Jeep, but like i am going to find anything closer. Now watch, as Loki, Thor and Balder riding around in a monster truck really does last just one issue. But I did realize as I was colouring it as close to the cover as I could get, that the truck is yellow and green, with black flames (the Sims version i opted for green rims, since you couldn't recolour the undercarriage, and as mentioned no rollbar) So i guess that's a probable sign of who is behind the monster truck of awesomeness.

anyway here's some more:

Loki, Thor, Balder and Thori all in the same house now:

http://steamcommunity.com/id/RayeGun...05210770218538

The intent was that it was faux Asgardia, but I guess that's in the middle of the sun, now, so... just a house now. I may take a video tour, we'll see.

I chose this house because though it only came with one bedroom, it had lots of room for activities, and this big enclosed empty space that could be turned into new rooms, (it also lacks a foundation so adding a basement is easy if necessary, but it's pretty huge so not needed so far) Loki's ended up pretty cool because it borders the pool, so it has windows looking into it.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/RayeGun...05210770213340
http://steamcommunity.com/id/RayeGun...05210770232534
http://steamcommunity.com/id/RayeGun...05210770217334

Decided to go semi-goth for Balder's room, seemed fitting for the current King of Hel, and goes well with purple anyway.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/RayeGun...05210770259024
(bad screenshot, but the only one i had saved, and not really done yet, will get a better one later. also, you can see truck v1.0 before i went mod searching)

Still kinda working on them, mostly just wanted to get everything i needed in there. Thor's room is basically just a bed, haven't gotten around it fixing it up.

Loki finally got abducted by aliens. and Balder three times, Thor 2 more times... something about that lot...
http://steamcommunity.com/id/RayeGun...05210770217989

and got Bats resurrected as a playable ghost, and Strange back in his cloak:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/RayeGun...05210770209359
http://steamcommunity.com/id/RayeGun...05210770210377
http://steamcommunity.com/id/RayeGun...05210770209652

and ugh, gonna have to redecorate the Sanctum Sanctorum to be all Victorian again, probably. so much work, and I really like the current furnishings... oh well.

And look what I discovered Strange can do because I had him buy the fortune teller wagon a while back and then promptly forgot about it:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/RayeGun...05210770208753

He can fire Loki! How fitting. Gonna give him another week or so tho, because right now Loki is the only real source of income. I got Balder a job at the graveyard, but it pays shit. Balder gets like 90 dollars a day x5, Loki gets 3,500 a day x2. so...

also have not been able to bring myself to break up Loki and Zelma. I think I will wait and see what happens there to do that. We have seen that Strange tries to patch things up with Zelma, and if she is willing to hear him out, I think she would be willing to do the same for Loki. Though, Strange gets shot into space the issue right after that, so it may be that Waid is going to drop her from the book even if they do patch things up. But she was created by Aaron, who has Loki in both Thor and Avengers, so if he wanted to save her from limbo, he's got Loki right there to give her an easy in to one of his books if he has them continue to see each other...

[Jovos2099]

ive always thought that since a lot of people of in the mu knows that gods like thor loki and Hercules exist then their would be people who worship them like the http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Church_of_Thor_(Earth-928) in the 2099 verse.

[Raye]

https://news.marvel.com/comics/86737...y-wars-coming/

Not surprising considering his involvement so far, but I have to say I am kinda dreading this. :-/

[Rosebunse]

Again, really love Deodato's Loki and I'm a big fan anyways, so that part will be fun! I just love how he gives us a Loki that isn't just handsome and pretty, but also just a little weird looking and fey and sinister, but also deceptively delicate and feminine. Also I think his horns are large enough without being full on classic huge horns.

I know we have our different opinions on Duggan, but I'm encouraged by this cover. Loki is clearly apart from everyone, but he's not exactly in a villainous stance or light. He's apart, he's not probably one of the heros, but he doesn't look like the main threat, which is exactly where Loki works best at the moment.

Looking at that cover, it looks like we have some main villain in a full get up that hides their face and then you have some sort of machinery. That main villain definitely doesn't look like any sort of Loki, especially since it's in blue and has no horns at all or bird motif.

[Riimi]

Again, really love Deodato's Loki and I'm a big fan anyways, so that part will be fun! I just love how he gives us a Loki that isn't just handsome and pretty, but also just a little weird looking and fey and sinister, but also deceptively delicate and feminine. Also I think his horns are large enough without being full on classic huge horns.

I know we have our different opinions on Duggan, but I'm encouraged by this cover. Loki is clearly apart from everyone, but he's not exactly in a villainous stance or light. He's apart, he's not probably one of the heros, but he doesn't look like the main threat, which is exactly where Loki works best at the moment.

Looking at that cover, it looks like we have some main villain in a full get up that hides their face and then you have some sort of machinery. That main villain definitely doesn't look like any sort of Loki, especially since it's in blue and has no horns at all or bird motif.

As long as we're dissecting the cover, though, he does seem to be closer to the villain side (next to Thanos) than the heroes. And maybe we just differ, where I'd honestly have him move towards the heroes, but in a more anti-heroish way (with the whole probably doing shady things for good reasons). So, I'm hoping it's because he's supposed to be purposefully ambiguous for the moment? Not sure how that will tie into Thor and the Avengers.