Loki Appreciation 2018

[Raye]

This is interesting but I can see how disconcerting (maybe even discouraging) it is to have Loki shifting back (but not really) into his old ways. Loki is up to something, doing awful things for whatever reasons that he's keeping very close to the chest. He's trying to achieve something that (is ultimately good but) requires ruffling the heroes feathers quite a bit in order to achieve it. He's resigned himself to playing the bad guy knowing how efficient that will be in galvanising the heroes into saving the day. It sucks. It's lonely and he hates every minute of it. I wish they would do something different with the character. The only difference now between this Loki and old school Loki is that we have some inkling of what's going on in side his head. He wants something different for himself and he's unfortunately swimming upstream with no relief in sight. He will have his moments to be and do good but there will be other times when he's called to do bad things....

He's not being evil just because. I don't know whether the whole god of stories still applies but I feel like they are playing into that portion of his story a little bit without beating us over the head about it. This isn't about Loki being OP so he can change stories etc like we hypothesized at the end of AoA but rather Loki having all of this knowledge/the story and being the only one who knows the narrative and how it controls the players. Heroes like Thor, Cap and Tony will always do what they are called to do but then so will Loki. Loki is burdened with knowing he's a cog in the wheel that needs to turn a certain way in order for the day to be saved. he's got the potential to be heroic and chart a very different path for himself but the story says otherwise. He's bitter about it that he's technically bound by forces that won't simply allow him to take control so he can step outside of the villain role for ever. This reminds me of the character of Garcia Flynn in the show Timeless in season 1, spoilers:

a guy who does very bad things in order to destroy what is essentially the big bad of the show. He also has access to information that the heroes do not so he attempts to change history/the narrative. He plays like a typical villain until they start pealing back the layers and reveal someone bound by a mission to save the day that has seen him do terrible things to achieve his goal. It's left him completely broken while the other heroes go about their parts without that kind of burden. I see a lot of similarities between them.

end of spoilers

What I want for Loki is for him to not be a plot device for the good guys to simply go about their business while he gets sacrificed. I want to know Loki POV in all of this. I know that he was responsible for the Avengers assembling in the past and it's been joked about that he's practically like a honorary member for his role in bringing these characters together even now but something has to be different, Loki needs to be a good guy (as good as he can be) even if the others will never know that his motives is to stop whatever catastrophe/disaster in on the horizon. We as the readers need to know he's in fact on the side of good throughout this story even if he does questionable things. Aaron needs to do more in terms of mapping out Loki's part considering he's barely resolved anything regarding Loki in the Thor books and he's supposedly the main writer for all things Asgardian.

I do agree it's taken too long to resolve, but I also think there is finally a light at the end of the tunnel, with both this story quite possibly leading to him joining the Avengers (since I guess the Young Avengers don't count) for at least a little while, and then there was the tease with Midnight Sons as well. Also, looks like the War of the Realms is finally picking up steam again, so that should resolve what he was doing there, hopefully. I think Jane just ended up being stretched out, which unfortunately caused all the surrounding sub plots to basically be put on hold.

I've never seen Timeless, but that does definitely sound like what Loki is doing here, more or less. Hopefully it ends up better for him in the end, though. No one likes following a character that's always destined to be seen as a failure, even if they are technically succeeding in what they do. It's fine for a while, but not forever.

And on that note...

Now, it seems as though he did probably summon the final host, the 'why' still being up in the air (even if it is villainous, I think we can cross out what he says his goal is--that's what the final host wants, but probably not Loki). Wanting to destroy the world raises the stakes for the heroes (and BP is going to have to decide whether or not to follow through with Odin's request in one way or another, that's pretty much a done deal, imo, so it raises the stakes for Loki, too). Having him be the villain also puts a face on the threat, whereas before it was just 'Vague Celestials'. Also important to note: the Avengers have defeated Loki lots of times. They don't have the same track record against Celestials. It could be that acting as the mastermind actually improves the Avenger's chances of winning, since stories repeat themselves. Besides, why would he make the comment he did about 'reverting to roles we were shackled with, long ago?', if he were evil?

Ooooh, I like this take! good thinking. Shackling himself to the Celestials meaning they are able to be brought down, because he's turning it into his villainous plot, and the heroes always defeat the villain is clever. Not quite sure if it will actually go that meta, but I still like it. though as i mentioned before, I just hope it's only for this arc/War of the Realms.

Oh, about Cap! Raye reminded me, too Not only does it keep their motivation going, but given that he's currently in the middle of a melee between Celestials, and is telling them to ignore that he's still there and calling on Carol to unleash the grenades, getting him out of there opens up the Avenger's options and gets him to (relative) safety.

True, it does also mean they don't have to agonize over possibly killing Cap to save the world, and just act. Granted, it would be because they think he's already dead, but still.

[rpmaluki]

spoilers:

What you're hoping for, Loki perhaps joining the Avengers (even for a short stint) does happen for Garcia's character in S2 and it's a contentious issue (obviously after his S1 arc) for some/most of the characters but it's fun nonetheless. I personally would love to see his character explored more. I just started watching it recently, it's only after reading the spoilers for Avengers #2 that I saw the similarities between Loki (what he could be doing) and what Garcia did in S1. There's a total of 26 episodes so it's not long to get into, I'm hoping for S3 renewal which hasn't been announced as of yet.

end of spoilers

There's so much potential in Loki's story, I would love it if it actual got some focus past plot devices for other characters to shine.

[Riimi]

Well, if we're right about what he's doing, I think it could actually be an important part of Loki's journey. Before this, I don't think we've seen this iteration do anything genuinely selfless--he always seemed more interested in how he was perceived and in AoA was more interested in not being a villain than in actually being a hero. Throughout it all, there was always some amount of selfishness going on, which is why we were worried they were going to revert to that in the Infinity stuff. However, since being a villain is something he appears to hate, playing one for the greater good (strange as that sounds) is like, heroism, Loki-style. He may think he's doomed to be shackled, but caring about the fate of the world enough to go back to a role he hates, instead of caring just about getting rid of the shackles, is possibly what he needs to actually change his role. For now, as much as there are tropes in play (that he's deliberately invoking, it seems), he's forgetting that there are also redemption tropes (which is for the best --see above--because then he might be playing the villain in the hope of getting redeemed, and oh this is kinda funny and I don't think we'd be having this discussion about anyone else).

[Raye]

That's true. Though he seemed nice and all in Agent of Asgard, and to be fair, I do think he was actually better, he was still ultimately doing it for selfish reasons. Taking shortcuts to 'not be a villain' but without any desire to actually do good things. His goal was changing his image more than his behaviour. Now he's actually sacrificing his own happiness to help others. Though he appears worse in terms of how he is perceived, he's actually being better, in a way. I just hope that someone recognized what he did after the fact, so he isn't trapped in that role he hates forever. I think his relationship with Thor may be damaged too much for that to happen right now, but maybe Strange, Captain America, or Black Panther.

Assuming we are correct, of course. Still not 100% sure about that. But I am pretty sure.

[Rosebunse]

To be fair, it's not like his method of making himself appear better was actually going to work in AoA. After only ten years, he was likely going to revert back or become an even worse Loki than he was before. Of course, now we have future visions that show Loki may turn into some sort of King Loki-this time with a Necrosword-but even that seems like there's more to it than that.

But like I said, his problem now is that he has no allies. That is risky. I think there's more to come of his relationship with Thor, mostly because I think Thor needs to resolve that with Loki for himself to move forward. Well, it's one of the things he needs to resolve. That doesn't mean to totally forgive Loki or forget what he did, but there needs to be a level of moving on that Thor hasn't done yet.

[Raye]

I think maybe that 10 years later thing was meant to prod him into doing a more meaningful change, more inner than outward. cus think about it, if all he wanted to accomplish was a change of his image, an outward change rather than inner, and everyone STILL didn't fully accept he had changed... then, what was the point? If he went to all that effort and still fell short of his goal. Now, if he had made the change on the inside, this probably wouldn't have mattered much to him; if he is changing for himself rather than appearances, then it won't matter what others think. But if he had kind of neglected the inner change, and made it all about what others thought of him, you can kinda see why he snapped there, because he skipped over the important part, which would have stopped him from going 'fuck it, this didn't work so may as well go back to what i was'.

(though, as mentioned I do think he was genuinely better than in the past, just... not in a way he had given a lot of thought to. He did feel genuine guilt, but his response to that was a bit misguided)

[Raye]

solicits are out. https://www.cbr.com/marvel-comics-au...solicitations/

He's not in much in regards to the solicits, but fairly sure he will be appearing in a few books that month. Most likely Avengers, possibly the Infinity stuff, and Thor is very likely, since though he wasn't mentioned by name, or on the cover for Thor, the solicit text is encouraging:

THOR #4

JASON AARON (W) • MIKE DEL MUNDO (A/C)
RETURN OF THE FANTASTIC FOUR VARIANT COVER BY BRYAN HITCH THOR & THE VALKYRIES TAKE ON THE QUEEN OF CINDERS IN THE WAR FOR HEL!
The Queen of Cinders and her fire goblin army have invaded the land of the dead. To keep the afterlife from going up in flames, Thor and his brothers will have to forge alliances with some of their greatest enemies and seek to unlock the secrets of Valhalla and the mighty Valkyries!

Plural brothers. So that means they were probably just kinda trying to hide Loki's involvement after that first issue's solicit so as to not spoil things too much, and he will actually be helping Thor and Balder in the fight against the Queen of Cinders.

[Rosebunse]

Yeah, I was thinking that. It definitely looks like they're trying to hide something from us. It could be Tyr even. Or Loki, Tyr, and Baldur. Tyr would have motivation to fight for Hel. Now we know Loki does want to save the world, but why suddenly work with Thor and the Avengers?

[Raye]

Because he hasn't been working against them up until this point, he just appeared to be working against them. So all that's really changing is that he's helping them openly rather than covertly, it's not a huge leap. I'm sure he probably knew he couldn't keep up the undercover agent thing going forever.

[Rosebunse]

Well, yeah, but why is now a good time for that? We know Loki has to have this sort of planned.

The hard thing about these covers is that Loki is normally an easy character to hide. He's not normally a part of team poses or huge fight scenes. In fact, most of the Avengers covers look pretty vague.

[Raye]

There are lots of potential reasons. Maybe he just... gets found out. Or he gets asked to cross a line he doesn't want to, so leaves. Or maybe his plan just won't work from the shadows any more. He's gathered all the information, maybe laid a few traps, now time to use it. I'm just glad it seems like he's moving past that, don't care why, so much. Fun for a while, but it's gone on too long.

While he technically could be hiding on the covers... there just isn't really a need to for most of them... it would add nothing to the covers or the stories inside to make one of the figures Loki doing an illusion. And it's not something they've done with Loki before, really, even though he's technically capable of it. Except maybe the Infinity covers, if he is this Requiem character.

Thor is it's just a bunch of Valkyries riding against the Queen of Cinders, with Thor leading them. I mean, it's Thor's book, so it's reasonable that he be the focus there, and there's just no reason to make Loki one of the Valkyries. I suspect it will be Loki doing the alliances with enemies thing, while Thor leads the charge. You know, play to their strengths, each brother doing things the others may not be as good at, to be stronger together than they would be apart.

Avengers is just a group shot of the finally assembled team, (...and Strange, who we know is just going to leave shortly after this) it likely has very little to do with the actual content of the book.

As i said, if he's on there, it's most likely on Infinity Wars. The cover that most supports that is probably this one: https://static0.cbrimages.com/wp-con...24&h=&fit=crop because: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon...._QL80_TTD_.jpg Loki has been involved with the story, and the layout of the covers is very similar, so... but it just doesn't make sense to me otherwise. Loki doesn't need to hide behind a mask, he can make himself look like anyone he wants. And it's just... a fucking dumb villain design, so i hope not....

[Rosebunse]

Interesting catch on Requiem. Everyone has been speculating that due to their slight build they are a woman, but that doesn't technically disqualify Loki. Plus, his body is normally drawn to be a bit leaner and skinnier anyways. My only issue is just why would Loki pick that get up. My theory is that the outfit is supposed to protect them from the extremes of Marvel white and empty expanses of the universes and timelines, but Loki has never been shown to have a problem with those. If Loki was hiding his identity, he could just shapeshift to look different.

However, he's an interesting choice for that. And Loki has never been known for his fashion sense.

I just really hate Requiem's whole look. It just looks so bland, yet also just so...like, what is happening there?

[Raye]

It does look like a female build, though as you say, that's not any sort of guarantee when it comes to Loki. But i think it is pretty unlikely that it is Loki, really, it was just the most likely of 3 very unlikely situations.

and that character design, it's the goggles that get me. I mean, Infinity symbol goggles? REALLY? Just too on the nose for me i guess.

I read Dr Strange today, it was hilarious, or at least the bits with Bats and Spider-Man were, I think Donny Cates needs to write more Spider-Man. Anyway, Loki was not in it, but I figured it was worth mentioning to keep people up to speed because Zelma just... left. I was hoping she would kinda call Strange on some of what he did to her more directly, (she brought up the note again, neglected attaching a spell to her in a potentially life threatening manner without her knowledge. which I think is kind of the bigger deal, here.) but still, she left. I don't know if she was written out of the book just because it was part of the story Cates wanted to tell, or if it was because Waid was disinterested in using her, so she got a bit of a sendoff. But he kept Bats there, and Bats is not in the previews for Waid's run... (it will be a tragedy if he falls into limbo) So maybe Aaron wanted her in Avengers and/or Thor... Because her relationship with Loki is still kind of up in the air. Yeah, she said she wanted away from both of them, but she came back to say goodbye to Strange, I would think she would be willing to do at least that for Loki as well. Though he occupied the position of Sorcerer Supreme through deception, he did still treat Zelma well, they seemed to get along really nicely, he saved her life, and they saw into each other's souls. I think it would be a bit of a waste if it was just dropped at this point, is all. And if Waid isn't going to use her, i could see Aaron wanting to have the character back, since he created her.

[Raye]

Look what arrived today....



sorry for the glare, didn't really want to handle them any more than i had to before i got frames for them. It took him a while to get around to shipping it, so he included 'a few extras' to make up for the delay, which were a nice surprise.

[Rosebunse]

Nice haul! Are you going to get then framed?