Wonder Woman #40 Spoilers

[numberthirty]

Here's the thing.

It's one thing if you have Amazon's trying to kill the male Amazons right off the jump. That has obviously not been the case. Now, they get jumpy.

It's lousy writing. That's before you even get to what Brett mentioned.

[brettc1]

Here's the thing.

It's one thing if you have Amazon's trying to kill the male Amazons right off the jump. That has obviously not been the case. Now, they get jumpy.

It's lousy writing. That's before you even get to what Brett mentioned.

And it doesn't end there, because this issue is merely the ongoing saga of Wonder Woman's list of failures under the Finch's pen.

She has failed to save a single innocent person in all those villages.

She has failed to get her Amazon sisters to listen to her as Queen.

She has failed to protect the men she helped put on the Island in the first place.

And now we also find that she failed to stop the threat of the FirstBorn, since putting him deep in the Earth was what woke up the bug-people and led to them committing mass murder. Obviously she should have done what she was lecturing Bruce about last issue and just cut his head off.

Never in all my years of reading Wonder Woman have I seen her so consistently incapable of accomplishing something worthwhile while the whole world goes to crap around her.

It is my purely personal opinion that the only people failing more than Wonder Woman herself in this arc are the people sitting on the other side of the page writing this.

[Rosa Snarks]

I just can't get past the mess that Donna is right now. Just a hot unbearable mess.

[Blacksun]

And it doesn't end there, because this issue is merely the ongoing saga of Wonder Woman's list of failures under the Finch's pen.

She has failed to save a single innocent person in all those villages.

She has failed to get her Amazon sisters to listen to her as Queen.

She has failed to protect the men she helped put on the Island in the first place.

And now we also find that she failed to stop the threat of the FirstBorn, since putting him deep in the Earth was what woke up the bug-people and led to them committing mass murder. Obviously she should have done what she was lecturing Bruce about last issue and just cut his head off.

Never in all my years of reading Wonder Woman have I seen her so consistently incapable of accomplishing something worthwhile while the whole world goes to crap around her.

It is my purely personal opinion that the only people failing more than Wonder Woman herself in this arc are the people sitting on the other side of the page writing this.

you said everything that is wrong about WW written by Finch. She can't accomplish a thing on this run, what a failure of character.
I wonder who will pick up this book after finch, or Dc will let her keep killing WW character on her 75th anniversary?
Hope DC will start with a #1

[Badou]

Sounds like another long list of characters in the New 52 that are different than they're Pre 52 counter parts (Wally, Tim, Bart). Me I don't know the old Donna Troy, but I do like this one (She's a lot better than Fury and Cassie). Seems like one of those bad turn in to good scenarios we'll eventually get from her. That'll add more personality to the character.

Odd that you are a Dick Grayson fan but don't know anything about the old Donna. She was arguably the closest person to Dick out of everyone in the DCU. They were basically like brother and sister.

[Grayson]

Odd that you are a Dick Grayson fan but don't know anything about the old Donna. She was arguably the closest person to Dick out of everyone in the DCU. They were basically like brother and sister.

I actually got into Nightwing as a kid watching Batman The New Animated Series. I never bothered reading about him though because I hated reading when I was younger. Fast forward to my senior year of HS I wanted to read material on him but didn't know where to start, a friend told me about The New 52, and Nightwing had a series so he gave me the first six issues to read. I loved it and that got me into comics.

I always have thought Barbara was close to him, but it's interesting to hear it was Donna. I'm going to have to find some cool moments they share or something.

[Badou]

I actually got into Nightwing as a kid watching Batman The New Animated Series. I never bothered reading about him though because I hated reading when I was younger. Fast forward to my senior year of HS I wanted to read material on him but didn't know where to start, a friend told me about The New 52, and Nightwing had a series so he gave me the first six issues to read. I loved it and that got me into comics.

I always have thought Barbara was close to him, but it's interesting to hear it was Donna. I'm going to have to find some cool moments they share or something.

Yeah, I'd probably say that she was his closest friend. Though to be fair all of Dick's former friends were taken away from him in the reboot. So if you just started in the New 52 you'd have no idea who he used to be close with. Still, I always liked their last moment together before Flashpoint (which was Donna's last appearance) wile Dick was still Batman and running the JLA. Their conversation was so fitting given what the New 52 turned out to be. Here is a brief description of it. Just sort of sad to see Donna being thrown under the bus here to be a villain for Wonder Woman. To me it is similar to how Frank Miller turned Dick Grayson into the new Joker in his Dark Knight Returns sequel. Just done for shock value.

[AmiMizuno]

She is really a sad think to see Donna. The amazons suck now. Why does Azz and Finches need to S*** on the amazons. WHy does Diana to need to be revised. For one the amazons coming to be what humanity can be to these savages. What is these to defend. It contradicts to what Diana and Amazons state for. It contradicts everything Wonder Woman stands for and what she is.

[brettc1]

If this is true, it's certainly very interesting...

Is it possible Mark Millar is behind this issue's storyline?

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/04/...nder-woman-40/

[Vanguard-01]

If this is true, it's certainly very interesting...

Is it possible Mark Millar is behind this issue's storyline?

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/04/...nder-woman-40/

Sadly, I believe that's been proven to be an April Fool's prank.

Shame. It would explain a lot.

[Silvanus]

They are Amazons. Thay hate and kill men, even as babies. They don't kill men only if they are useful. Male amazons were useful against the First Born, but now they are just "males on Themiscyra's soil" and the Amazons won't get new swords if they spare those filthy males.

Actually, they would have had a whole tribe of skilled smiths ready to make new swords right there on the island. On the other hand, they're not likely to get new swords from Heph now that they've killed his proteges; if anything, they'll probably face Heph's wrath, along with Diana's, without any new weapons or shields with which to defend themselves. So even pure self-interest or selfishness should have argued against this fratricide. I mean, having just been reminded--from Hera and then from the First Born--that hiding out on their island doesn't guarantee their safety, they pick a very strange time to decide to kill the people who could have built up their defenses.

What did you expect?

Well, I expected that Diana's loving influence would start to work, as it generally has, even in Azz's run; so I expected that interacting with Zeke and with their brothers would start to teach many of the Amazons that males are people too. One convert would become 2 would become 4 would become 8, and eventually critical mass would be reached, the movement would pick up steam and the rate of change would become exponential; perhaps 8 would become 64 would become 4096 would become many Amazons with a new view of men and of how to live. Meanwhile, I expected that most Amazons, even if not yet profoundly converted, would remain loyal to their queen (as Aleka did, in the end), whether that queen was Hippolyta or Diana; and Hippolyta, if still around (even in stone form), would be one of the first converts, out of love for her daughter. There would be interesting conflicts with some unregenerate and rebellious Amazons who would still cling militantly to the old ways, but a powerful and effective Diana would be there to lead and protect the loyalists and the converts and the men. And even if Diana was away and Hippolyta was out of the picture, Dessa and Diana's converts and loyalists would be there to protect the men against anything the unregenerate rebels tried to do.

That's what I expected. I guess I'm still hoping for a version of it; Dessa could lead a gigantic charge of Diana's Amazons against their reactionary sisters, and it could turn out that there are a lot of male Amazons left to protect. That's what I'm hoping for, but I can't say I'm expecting it at this point, because so far, the Finches haven't built on the positive possibilities that Azz left behind.

[Silvanus]

Never in all my years of reading Wonder Woman have I seen her so consistently incapable of accomplishing something worthwhile while the whole world goes to crap around her.

It is my purely personal opinion that the only people failing more than Wonder Woman herself in this arc are the people sitting on the other side of the page writing this.

I agree. Tim Hanley makes a similar point in his review of WW 40. He compares it to the current Batman arc, saying that both are "break the hero down to build them up" narratives, but the Batman narrative works and the Wonder Woman one doesn't. Why? Hanley says that even though both heroes "screw up" and seem "overwhelmed,"

[T]here’s an assuredness to Batman that keeps the reader cheering for him. Part of it is his own confidence, as he keeps on battling despite a dangerously worsening situation. This confidence comes from within, but also from the people around him who support him, and this camaraderie adds warmth and humour to the story even in the worst of circumstances. The book is dark and often grisly, but it’s not just dark and grisly. Batman can still crack a joke.

Wonder Woman, on the other hand, is perpetually flailing. She’s overwhelmed and unsure of herself, and we know this because we’ve had to read several long monologues where she says just that. Moreover, she’s got no support. Her Amazon sisters have deserted her, her mother is dead, and every time she talks to a fellow Justice League member they react harshly (probably because they’re sick of listening to the aforementioned monologues). Wonder Woman just seems to be sinking further into a hole, and that’s ALL the book is about. There’s no joy or light, just Wonder Woman having terrible day after terrible day with no end in sight. It’s a one-note pile on and the creators have given the reader no reason to believe that Wonder Woman is able to get out of it. The gal’s a mess.

I'm not following Batman, so I can't say if Hanley is right about that book, but I do think he's right about Wonder Woman.

Admittedly, for me there was a very slight improvement in the characterization of Wonder Woman in issue 40; we find out that she too can still sort of crack a joke ("strife is getting to me"), and in the Justice League part of the book she seems to be rebounding a bit after her chat with Hippolyta. But then she's apparently very easily rattled by the bug queen, when she should see right through that creature's very flawed argument; it's ridiculous to hold Diana responsible for the effect of the FB on creatures that she didn't even know about, when there was no previous sign or hint that putting him back where he came from would have this kind of effect. And it's almost as ridiculous to argue that waking the creatures up makes Diana responsible for everything they decide to do after they wake up.

And then, of course, the massacre at the end further reinforces the book's sense that Diana is completely ineffectual.

[Dr. Poison]

Actually, they would have had a whole tribe of skilled smiths ready to make new swords right there on the island. On the other hand, they're not likely to get new swords from Heph now that they've killed his proteges; if anything, they'll probably face Heph's wrath, along with Diana's, without any new weapons or shields with which to defend themselves. So even pure self-interest or selfishness should have argued against this fratricide. I mean, having just been reminded--from Hera and then from the First Born--that hiding out on their island doesn't guarantee their safety, they pick a very strange time to decide to kill the people who could have built up their defenses.



Well, I expected that Diana's loving influence would start to work, as it generally has, even in Azz's run; so I expected that interacting with Zeke and with their brothers would start to teach many of the Amazons that males are people too. One convert would become 2 would become 4 would become 8, and eventually critical mass would be reached, the movement would pick up steam and the rate of change would become exponential; perhaps 8 would become 64 would become 4096 would become many Amazons with a new view of men and of how to live. Meanwhile, I expected that most Amazons, even if not yet profoundly converted, would remain loyal to their queen (as Aleka did, in the end), whether that queen was Hippolyta or Diana; and Hippolyta, if still around (even in stone form), would be one of the first converts, out of love for her daughter. There would be interesting conflicts with some unregenerate and rebellious Amazons who would still cling militantly to the old ways, but a powerful and effective Diana would be there to lead and protect the loyalists and the converts and the men. And even if Diana was away and Hippolyta was out of the picture, Dessa and Diana's converts and loyalists would be there to protect the men against anything the unregenerate rebels tried to do.

That's what I expected. I guess I'm still hoping for a version of it; Dessa could lead a gigantic charge of Diana's Amazons against their reactionary sisters, and it could turn out that there are a lot of male Amazons left to protect. That's what I'm hoping for, but I can't say I'm expecting it at this point, because so far, the Finches haven't built on the positive possibilities that Azz left behind.

The males weren't useful as bartering items any more. Diana put a stop to that and Hephaestus went along with that. I doubt Hephaestus will do anything about this either. The males weren't much more than slaves to him.

[Silvanus]

The males weren't useful as bartering items any more.

No; my point was that they are now useful as weapon smiths instead (or rather, they would have been, if not for what Donna and at least some of the Amazons have now done). The Amazons didn't need to "trade" with Heph now that they had Heph's students living on their island. Having killed them, they're probably not going to get any more weapons from Heph, even if they could have thought of another way to pay for them or if he would have provided them as a favor to Diana. And they probably do need a lot of new weapons, since some of their old ones would have been damaged in the war with the First Born. Even just out of selfishness, the Amazons should have at least seen some value in keeping them around, if only as smiths in servitude.

The males weren't much more than slaves to him.

Is there evidence of that? There is evidence to the contrary: 1. In issue 7, one of the male Amazons says that because of Heph, they are artists and they are loved (which implies that he not only taught them but loved them); and, 2. In the same issue, Heph says he couldn't let what happened to him at Hera's hands happen to these boys, (which implies that he felt protective of them); and, 3. Heph praises Diana's bold decision to bring the men home to Paradise Island (which implies that he cares about their well-being and not just about their services). He also actively helps them protect themselves, and he tells the male and female Amazons to "rock your house," implying that he sees Paradise Island as still the boys' rightful home. And though Diana initially thought they were slaves in issue 7, in the issue in which she welcomes them back she calls them Heph's "charges," which implies that she now sees Heph as their guardian, not their slave master.

But of course, the Finches haven't shown Heph to have any interest in the boys--so maybe this is just another example of them making Azz's world darker instead of taking the opportunities he left to make it lighter.

[Hawk80]

No; my point was that they are now useful as weapon smiths instead (or rather, they would have been, if not for what Donna and at least some of the Amazons have now done). The Amazons didn't need to "trade" with Heph now that they had Heph's students living on their island. Having killed them, they're probably not going to get any more weapons from Heph, even if they could have thought of another way to pay for them or if he would have provided them as a favor to Diana. And they probably do need a lot of new weapons, since some of their old ones would have been damaged in the war with the First Born. Even just out of selfishness, the Amazons should have at least seen some value in keeping them around, if only as smiths in servitude.

They just need to wait for the next raid. Heph will come with new weapons to save the males frome the cliff of death, as usual. Amazons lost nothing.