Superman/Wonder Woman #17 (spoilers)

[DochaDocha]

Fire away, por favor.

[Sacred Knight]

Probably my new favorite issue of the entire run. Yeah Superman being controlled has been done to death, but it was really Wonder Woman's issue to shine here, and boy did she. Outsmarting Circe was great and really took her down a peg as wit and smarts is what she was holding over Diana's head since she arrived. And using a piece of info from Doomed, that the lasso soothed the beast inside, as the solution to Circe's control over him here was a nice touch. As for Magog she just completely dominated him. Loved that flip she did grabbing his horns in mid-air and ricocheting him through the air, ha.

Now we just wait and see what the post-Convergence direction.

[Blacksun]

this issue made me sure smww is not a good couple or a good book. It made the DC female characters interchangeable, WW basically a female superman and superman teaching WW how to save innocent people. atrocious

[Silvanus]

The woman's not becoming a reporter, she's just collecting her thoughts in writing.

Sorry, I just re-read it and I can't think of any other explanation for what Diana was doing other than she was writing an article. Why do research? Why talk about it (i.e. what she wrote) doing some good? The implication does seem to be that she was writing an article, which does increase the similarity of Diana to both Lois and to Clark. In fact, this kind of character beat, as much as I don't like Diana or Lois having to learn from Clark, was played out with Lois in Morrison's Action Comics run. To me, that ending remains a jarring and off-note conclusion to an issue that did allow Diana to shine in a way that I appreciate. That said, it would have been better to see her shine without having to sideline Superman and doing the lasso move on him again (e.g. Young Romance, Doomed).

[Quotes pasted in from the preview thread.]

I think Misslane is right that she's writing an article; but I also think Sacred Knight's right that she's not becoming a reporter. writing one article does not a reporter make. She can be a writer without being a professional journalistic reporter.

It might be cool if this were to lead into a reprisal of the "Diana writes a book" story beat from Rucka, in which writing a book was one way in which Diana attempted to spread her teachings of peace.

It made the DC female characters interchangeable, WW basically a female superman and superman teaching WW how to save innocent people. atrocious

I don't know. I partly see your point: Diana definitely shouldn't have had to learn from Superman the value of really seeing and empathizing with the people around her. I don't think it makes the female characters interchangeable, though, any more than writing a book made Rucka's Wonder Woman interchangeable with Lois. Hopefully we can all aree that there's more to Lois than writin an article, and conversely, Lois shouldn't be the only femlae character who ever gets to write anything.

As for being a female Superman--well, she certainly proves more effective against magic than Superman. She's also the one who understand the value of having faith in the strength of another (the definition of loving submission, according to Azz's Diana); she has faith in the ability of Superman to break out of Circe's control with the help of her lasso, so she's able to leave him and go protect humans. I wonder if Superman could have done that if the situation was reversed; we've seen him be protective, and perhaps overprotective, of Wonder Woman, especially in Soule's run.

[Sacred Knight]

It was so casual I missed it my first time through, but I'm guessing the change to their relationship that the solicit hinted at (in its usual annoying misdirection setup) is that they're living together. Its at least heavily hinted at when she tells Clark she'll see him "at home".

[LoveStar]

This was definitely the best issue of the arc. Loved how Diana shined and dominated outsmarting Magog and Circe. The ending was nice because it was a reversal of issue 13. Diana seemed at first to just accept that death in general is just apart of life. It wasn't because of Superman but seeing how Magog/David was used and knowing his "story" made her see that it was actually more than that. I like that Diana was inspired by Clark to keep a personal journal of the people who died. Nothing wrong with that. Also the implication that Circe may come back is very interesting. Looking forward to June.

[ssupes]

[Quotes pasted in from the preview thread.]

I think Misslane is right that she's writing an article; but I also think Sacred Knight's right that she's not becoming a reporter. writing one article does not a reporter make. She can be a writer without being a professional journalistic reporter.

It might be cool if this were to lead into a reprisal of the "Diana writes a book" story beat from Rucka, in which writing a book was one way in which Diana attempted to spread her teachings of peace.

I hope what wonder woman writes may tackle another big issue that is present in America and that's what happens to the victims of a disaster. Speaking as a outsider of the country and I don't mean to offend anyone but it amazes me that when disaster strikes in the united states all the reporters (your Lois Lanes if you will) come flooding in to report what happens and when another calamity hits they simply pack up and move on leaving the victims alone and the government barely helps (see Katrina).
This has also been brought to the limelight (albeit unintentionally) through man of steel in that what happens in crises is still felt a long time after the event and I welcome that maybe we should do more towards helping people after a disaster, heroes need to be more then firemen fighting fires and going home when the job is done.

[ssupes]

It was so casual I missed it my first time through, but I'm guessing the change to their relationship that the solicit hinted at (in its usual annoying misdirection setup) is that they're living together. Its at least heavily hinted at when she tells Clark she'll see him "at home".

Wow, I never noticed. That is big.

[DochaDocha]

I hope what wonder woman writes may tackle another big issue that is present in America and that's what happens to the victims of a disaster. Speaking as a outsider of the country and I don't mean to offend anyone but it amazes me that when disaster strikes in the united states all the reporters (your Lois Lanes if you will) come flooding in to report what happens and when another calamity hits they simply pack up and move on leaving the victims alone and the government barely helps (see Katrina).
This has also been brought to the limelight (albeit unintentionally) through man of steel in that what happens in crises is still felt a long time after the event and I welcome that maybe we should do more towards helping people after a disaster, heroes need to be more then firemen fighting fires and going home when the job is done.

Reporters don't come into a disaster area equipped with a lot of resources to help disaster victims, though. Their goal is to bring the disaster to other people's attention, and ideally, in hopes that the attention brought forward will get other people who do have resources to lend helping hands or donate.

[OpticDreams]

this issue made me sure smww is not a good couple or a good book. It made the DC female characters interchangeable, WW basically a female superman and superman teaching WW how to save innocent people. atrocious

To each his own, I suppose. I thought the issue was very nice.

It was so casual I missed it my first time through, but I'm guessing the change to their relationship that the solicit hinted at (in its usual annoying misdirection setup) is that they're living together. Its at least heavily hinted at when she tells Clark she'll see him "at home".

Yeah, I caught that, makes me all kinds of excited for the future.

[ssupes]

Reporters don't come into a disaster area equipped with a lot of resources to help disaster victims, though. Their goal is to bring the disaster to other people's attention, and ideally, in hopes that the attention brought forward will get other people who do have resources to lend helping hands or donate.

I'm sorry if I made it sound like they should help out but what I mean is that it simply seems that they go to report just for the ratings grab and not much else except the occasional year later story and that more should be done to help people take notice of the suffering that is still happening.

[DochaDocha]

I'm sorry if I made it sound like they should help out but what I mean is that it simply seems that they go to report just for the ratings grab and not much else except the occasional year later story and that more should be done to help people take notice of the suffering that is still happening.

I think, yes, media covers disasters because it helps ratings/sales/clicks, but at the same time, there would be something very awkward about avoiding covering disasters out of a principle not to cover these things so as not to chase viewers/readers/etc.

Generally, it's for the best that they get sent out there, especially from larger media conglomerates. Your average blogger or even your local news team might not be able to budget for sending reporters to remote areas, but a large news corp is prepared to do so. Plus, victims of disasters need the attention. If nobody knows how bad a disaster is, people won't mobilize to help victims.

More can be done for victims, but once the media reports the story, they've done their job, and an important job. Any additional help they do should be considered a bonus, not an obligation.

[Blacksun]

[Quotes pasted in from the preview thread.]

I think Misslane is right that she's writing an article; but I also think Sacred Knight's right that she's not becoming a reporter. writing one article does not a reporter make. She can be a writer without being a professional journalistic reporter.

It might be cool if this were to lead into a reprisal of the "Diana writes a book" story beat from Rucka, in which writing a book was one way in which Diana attempted to spread her teachings of peace.

she did on her own, it wasn't because her boyfriend was so awesome writing and compassioate because people lost their lives. Another level

I don't know. I partly see your point: Diana definitely shouldn't have had to learn from Superman the value of really seeing and empathizing with the people around her. I don't think it makes the female characters interchangeable, though, any more than writing a book made Rucka's Wonder Woman interchangeable with Lois. Hopefully we can all aree that there's more to Lois than writin an article, and conversely, Lois shouldn't be the only femlae character who ever gets to write anything.

As for being a female Superman--well, she certainly proves more effective against magic than Superman. She's also the one who understand the value of having faith in the strength of another (the definition of loving submission, according to Azz's Diana); she has faith in the ability of Superman to break out of Circe's control with the help of her lasso, so she's able to leave him and go protect humans. I wonder if Superman could have done that if the situation was reversed; we've seen him be protective, and perhaps overprotective, of Wonder Woman, especially in Soule's run.

well Rucka is a awesome writer for female writers, he is centuries beyond what tomasi did here. interchangeable was about Diana being into writing, because since new 52 started DC just traded lois for WW. Now WW is even writing about injustice just like lois. Sure lois is not the only female character writing, there is vicky vale on today batman eternal.

you didn't understood me, she is female superman because she does the same things that him do: use classes as a distiguise, now even write about people who died and is compassionate with them.
It's not like she had any choice, she had to be faith on him. it still don't justify her having to learn how to be a better person with superman. I remember when superman had to learn to be a good reporter with lois, but nevermind, the men have to teach their girlfriends.

I hope what wonder woman writes may tackle another big issue that is present in America and that's what happens to the victims of a disaster. Speaking as a outsider of the country and I don't mean to offend anyone but it amazes me that when disaster strikes in the united states all the reporters (your Lois Lanes if you will) come flooding in to report what happens and when another calamity hits they simply pack up and move on leaving the victims alone and the government barely helps (see Katrina).
This has also been brought to the limelight (albeit unintentionally) through man of steel in that what happens in crises is still felt a long time after the event and I welcome that maybe we should do more towards helping people after a disaster, heroes need to be more then firemen fighting fires and going home when the job is done.

sure, this way DC won't even need Lois Lane. let WW be a reporter too.
Lois lanes? they risk their lives to report into disasters, it's not like they are powerful amazons

[Nyssane]

Don't forget that as per the rules, you shouldn't start a thread without substance.

As for the issue, it was good. Not great, but I enjoyed it (especially after having read WW#40). I'm glad Circe wasn't outright defeated, and it'd be neat to see her make a comeback sometime soon.

[misslane]

I think Misslane is right that she's writing an article; but I also think Sacred Knight's right that she's not becoming a reporter. writing one article does not a reporter make. She can be a writer without being a professional journalistic reporter.

That's a bit of a distinction without a difference. If Diana has latched on to article writing as a means of doing something she believes is important, and she'll likely always have victims that will need this attention given her lifestyle, then it would be inconsistent and cheap for this to be a phase or even a one time deal for the sake of a pat ending to this particular arc. The problem remains that she's engaging in journalistic activities which are iconic traits of Clark and Lois, making it appear as if she's either being written to follow in Clark's lead too much, she's stealing traits from Lois, or both.

As for being a female Superman--well, she certainly proves more effective against magic than Superman. She's also the one who understand the value of having faith in the strength of another (the definition of loving submission, according to Azz's Diana); she has faith in the ability of Superman to break out of Circe's control with the help of her lasso, so she's able to leave him and go protect humans. I wonder if Superman could have done that if the situation was reversed; we've seen him be protective, and perhaps overprotective, of Wonder Woman, especially in Soule's run.

I didn't see it as faith as much as wisdom. She's seen her lasso work on Superman in Young Romance (against the Sirens) and Doomed (against the beast within). If anything, this was an issue with a much recycled plot in which Superman is sidelined so she can shine using roughly the same conflict and the exact same solution as has been used before multiple times.

I like that Diana was inspired by Clark to keep a personal journal of the people who died. Nothing wrong with that. Also the implication that Circe may come back is very interesting. Looking forward to June.

I don't think it's a personal journal. People don't usually do hours of research for a journal.

I hope what wonder woman writes may tackle another big issue that is present in America and that's what happens to the victims of a disaster. Speaking as a outsider of the country and I don't mean to offend anyone but it amazes me that when disaster strikes in the united states all the reporters (your Lois Lanes if you will) come flooding in to report what happens and when another calamity hits they simply pack up and move on leaving the victims alone and the government barely helps (see Katrina).
This has also been brought to the limelight (albeit unintentionally) through man of steel in that what happens in crises is still felt a long time after the event and I welcome that maybe we should do more towards helping people after a disaster, heroes need to be more then firemen fighting fires and going home when the job is done.

Lois Lane is not a good example of someone who doesn't care about the victims. The reason she became Brainiac possessed and comatose for a year prior to Doomed was because she went out looking for the victims of Brainiac's first invasion (covered in Morrison's Action run). After Doomed, Lois wrote an article in response to Clark's bait Superman bashing article which not only praised Superman but also the public. If there ever was a time Lois operated with that mindset, it was very early in her career. In fact, this whole plot with Diana seems like a rehash of the story Morrison wrote for Lois in Action Comics #10's epilogue:

Reporters don't come into a disaster area equipped with a lot of resources to help disaster victims, though. Their goal is to bring the disaster to other people's attention, and ideally, in hopes that the attention brought forward will get other people who do have resources to lend helping hands or donate.

More can be done for victims, but once the media reports the story, they've done their job, and an important job. Any additional help they do should be considered a bonus, not an obligation.

I agree.