New 52 Batgirl: What are your preferences?

[Jadis]

Simone run for me.

It was sometimes uneven, but I was satisfied often enough. The new book didn't do anything for me.

[JasonTodd428]

Is not like Barb was the only character with continuity issues, in the case of Roy, yeah he no longer had a daughter who died in a horribly written event and then went crazy because of it, but is he better with how his new continuity is?

I believe that Roy is a better character for the lack of all that baggage myself. I hated what DC did to him with that story as well as everything that happened after that. I miss him having a daughter but he didn't have one anyway at the end of the pre-reboot days so him starting off the N52 without one isn't all that different. There is still time for him to have a daughter again, especially now that it looks as if Starfire might not be in the picture anymore.

There's nothing wrong with TKJ staying in canon (as much as I dislike the book). It just shouldn't be obsessed over. It's like if every issue of Batman was about Bruce crying about his parents.

The fact that it is canon is the problem though. If it's canon then writers feel the need to reference it but if it wasn't then I doubt writers would even bother with it.

I see your point, and it's valid. It's probably more of a personal subjective taste thing. I'm not a fan that a story that wasn't even about Barbara effected her so much. I also heard once that it wasn't originally intended to be an in continuity story. But hey. That was probay false information. Just not personally a fan.

Yeah, it's a personal taste thing for me as well. I never was a fan of the story so I think it was a poor choice to keep it as part of her N52 history. Having writers constantly referencing it didn't change my opinion on that decision at all.

[JBatmanFan05]

Killing Joke is great IMHO and should always be canon and was Batgirl's big bad life event like "A Death in the Family" was for Bruce (or even the Waynes' death..it was THAT big for her (like it or not)). It big time shook up her status quo in a quality fresh way (yes Moore intended it as non-canon, DC though planned for it to be canon). Writers overusing it in flashbacks/covers are to blame if it is overused, editors are to be blamed as well. Not its canon status IMHO. The canon is not a person and can't do a thing, writers and editors are and have all the control.

[JasonTodd428]

Killing Joke is great IMHO and should always be canon and was Batgirl's big bad life event like "A Death in the Family" was for Bruce (or even the Waynes' death..it was THAT big for her (like it or not)). It big time shook up her status quo in a quality fresh way (yes Moore intended it as non-canon, DC though planned for it to be canon). Writers overusing it in flashbacks/covers are to blame if it is overused, editors are to be blamed as well. Not its canon status IMHO. The canon is not a person and can't do a thing, writers and editors are and have all the control.

We'll have to agree to disagree about whether TKJ was a great story. I think it was merely another wrong footed step in the whole idea that all heroes must have something bad happen to them in order for them to be motivated trend. Babs didn't fit their criteria for that at the time so they wrote a story that would force her character to align with that idea. Yes, it changed her status quo and yes, we got Oracle out of it but the fact remains I felt like it was nothing more than a story done for shock value in the same vein as Death in the Family, which I also don't care much for. It should never have been made canon in the first place and the fact that it is canon causes writers and editors to feel that they must reference it. If they were told by editors that they weren't allowed to use it and then the editors themselves stood up for that rule then they would not touch it. At least that's what it feels like to me. YMMV. In my mind TKJ didn't have to be the reason behind Babs taking up the Oracle mantle. There were plenty of other routes DC could have chosen to get her there that didn't involve her being shot by Joker.

[MajorHoy]

. . . In my mind TKJ didn't have to be the reason behind Babs taking up the Oracle mantle. There were plenty of other routes DC could have chosen to get her there that didn't involve her being shot by Joker.

TKJ didn't automatically lead to Barbara becoming Oracle. TKJ came out in early 1988, and then somebody else (Kim Yale and John Ostrander) decided to do something with the post-TKJ Barbara over in the pages of Suicide Squad starting in 1989.

[Kid A]

The fact that it is canon is the problem though. If it's canon then writers feel the need to reference it but if it wasn't then I doubt writers would even bother with it.

There's a difference between TKJ being referenced at all, and beating you over the head with it every other issue. For me, the latter is the problem, but I don't have an issue with the former.

I don't even like TKJ, and if anything I'd be relieved if it was nullified. But at the same time I don't think it being canon is the problem.

[JasonTodd428]

TKJ didn't automatically lead to Barbara becoming Oracle. TKJ came out in early 1988, and then somebody else (Kim Yale and John Ostrander) decided to do something with the post-TKJ Barbara over in the pages of Suicide Squad starting in 1989.

I had stopped reading DC by that point so I wasn't aware of that but people make such a point that her being Oracle is dependent on her being paralyzed I just figured that there was some direct connection between TKJ and that. Thanks for correcting me. Learn something new everyday.

[MajorHoy]

I had stopped reading DC by that point so I wasn't aware of that but people make such a point that her being Oracle is dependent on her being paralyzed I just figured that there was some direct connection between TKJ and that. Thanks for correcting me. Learn something new everyday.

One did follow the other, though. If she hadn't been shot and paralyzed in TKJ, she wouldn't necessarily have become Oracle. But the events of TKJ didn't automatically lead to her Oracle period.

[Confuzzled]

I had stopped reading DC by that point so I wasn't aware of that but people make such a point that her being Oracle is dependent on her being paralyzed I just figured that there was some direct connection between TKJ and that. Thanks for correcting me. Learn something new everyday.

One did follow the other, though. If she hadn't been shot and paralyzed in TKJ, she wouldn't necessarily have become Oracle. But the events of TKJ didn't automatically lead to her Oracle period.

Most of the misunderstanding stems from some TKJ diehard fans inaccurately claiming that Babs became Oracle due to the story. All TKJ really did was take Barbara out of commission and hold her over the abyss of obscurity. If it hadn't been for Yale and Ostrander, she would have been reduced to Joker Victim No. 24189.

[JasonTodd428]

There's a difference between TKJ being referenced at all, and beating you over the head with it every other issue. For me, the latter is the problem, but I don't have an issue with the former.

I don't even like TKJ, and if anything I'd be relieved if it was nullified. But at the same time I don't think it being canon is the problem.

I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. I feel differently but I'm not really seeking to change anyone's mind either. Just offering my own opinion.

Most of the misunderstanding stems from some TKJ diehard fans inaccurately claiming that Babs became Oracle due to the story.

And that's exactly what caused my confusion. I wasn't reading comics in the 90s or early 2000s so I completely missed her transition to Oracle and with all the people claiming that TKJ was what created "Oracle" I think it's a natural assumption to have made based on the somewhat limited information I had at the time I came back into reading comics. I even had comic book reading friends that made the same claim back then.

[Adjudicator]

Heh, my single favorite issue is the Future's End issue because of team Batgirl. But that aside and only considering how Barbara is written I think I prefer the current book. I prefer the generally lighter concept the new team is going for over the darker grittier version that went before. That said I decided to drop the current book too because I felt it was trying to hard to prove its young female hipness. Every page needn't drip of, "Hey look at me, I'm a young woman being a overly typical young person except for this tiny Batgirl gig."

This was exactly my issue with the book and why I dropped it. It felt like it was trying to hard to be hip an in with a younger crowd.

[MikeMC005]

Simone run for me.

It was sometimes uneven, but I was satisfied often enough. The new book didn't do anything for me.

Completely agree.

[Arghant]

I enjoyed Simone's run on Batgirl, even though it was obvious she was constantly battling with editorial. I simply won't read the "Batgirl of Burnside" because I'm born and raised in RL Brooklyn and don't want to read about one of my favorite characters as one of the gentrifiers I can't stand on a daily basis.