Dan Slott on the "real" MJ

[Vortex85]

Dan Slott talks MJ @ 52:30. Says 1 dimensional party girl MJ from Romita Sr. is the "real" MJ, and she somehow got less good because of the marriage?

Seriously?! All the depth and backstory that added layers to her character that fans credit to MJ somehow made her less good?! Thats the very reason she is one of the best characters in comics. If she never had that depth, she'd be a one-note bore!

MJ wouldn't have NEAR the fan following and love if not for the marriage years. She'd be another background love interest. She's so embedded in the hearts and minds of fans today because of the marriage years.

Also, he pulls the card that fans who talk about their favorite stories fromt he marraige years can only name few. It's not the stories ABOUT the marriage, it's all the moments that we enjoy that we get to see Peter experience when the stories are not even about that. A Spidey story can be mediocre, unrelated to the topic of Peter's marraige, and you can still have great characer moments in it that make the book great. Sometimes, a single page from the marriage made a otherwise mediocre book a highlight in my collection!

Basically, the marraige was a status quo, it wasn't the focus of the book. It's like asking fans to pinpoint great Daily Bugle stories, or great college stories, etc... What does the era have to do with the stories? How many stories are actually ABOUT the Bugle, or ABOUT high school, etc...?

It was fun to see Peter in those settings, in those scenarios, but it wasn't the reason for good or bad stories, and both good and bad stories can be written regardless of the status quo. You can write characters however you want regardless of whether they are married. MJ doesn't have to be written the way Dan didn't like in the marriage.... in fact, she really hasn't acted that way... there are plenty of times she cut loose. She just had more facets of her personality exposed so we got to see her act different ways at different times, giving her more depth, making her REAL.



Yeah Dan, MJ just totally lost her personality during the marriage. >_>

[Frontier]

And this is the person who they gave Renew Your Vows to...doesn't inspire a lot of confidence .

[Vortex85]

And this is the person who they gave Renew Your Vows to...doesn't inspire a lot of confidence .

To be fair, Dan was the one who pitched Renew Your Vows, they didn't give it to him. He came up with it himself. But yeah, it doesn't inspire confidence.

[Tuck]

Dan Slott talks MJ @ 52:30. Says 1 dimensional party girl MJ from Romita Sr. is the "real" MJ, and she somehow got less good because of the marriage?

I see where he's coming from, but the same way he talks about the "real Mary Jane" he read about (when he started reading), married Pete and MJ are the "real Peter and Mary Jane" to many people who began reading later. And he does concede that to an extent, but then his criticism seems to be mostly that the character is too altered from what she was (I'd hope he applies this to what's going on with Black Cat then).

There's also the comment about Peter not being a photographer anymore because we've seen that already, many times. But the same can be said about callow, single Peter.

Then again, I'm for interations.

[Steeler53]

I see where he's coming from, but the same way he talks about the "real Mary Jane" he read about (when he started reading), married Pete and MJ are the "real Peter and Mary Jane" to many people who began reading later. And he does concede that to an extent, but then his criticism seems to be mostly that the character is too altered from what she was (I'd hope he applies this to what's going on with Black Cat then).

There's also the comment about Peter not being a photographer anymore because we've seen that already, many times. But the same can be said about callow, single Peter.

Then again, I'm for interations.

The thing about MJ is she is a bit wild especially in the ASM issues starting with the Tablet issues. But if you also know Peté said ( after Captain Stacy died),,"First Jamison, then Gwen, and now the entire City's turned against me."MJ was NOT in those issues.( so she was not included). After ASM 43 ( her first appearance), she was mostly a supporting character until after Gwen died. Here is where I agree with DS. A sweet woman like Gwen ( 616 version not 'Spider-Gwen) or Betty Brant would not be a good match for Pete or any other superhero because they are basically too nice. MJ is tough enough to handle things. Remember, she is a fiery REDHEAD, and in stories like 'Kraven's Last Hunt' you see how tough she is. Felicia is also tough and could handle being with Spider-Man but not Peter Parker. MJ is not too nice, nor too tough, nor is she a b--ch like Liz Allen ( always nasty towards Pete and even worse today). Having MJ is like hitting three sevens playing slots at Vegas. "The Jackpot."

[Dan Slott]

Dan Slott talks MJ @ 52:30. Says 1 dimensional party girl MJ from Romita Sr. is the "real" MJ, and she somehow got less good because of the marriage?

Well if you're going to put THAT much spin on it... ;-)
No.
"Slott" says that the incredible vibrant and 3D character that Stan Lee & John Romita Sr brought to life is the REAL MJ.
And that when you added a tortured back story to explain WHY she needed to be the center of attention, sequences (plural) when she waited & worried about the fate of her husband, and oh-so-interesting subplots about whether she would-or-wouldn't take up smoking-- that was subtractive (rather than additive) to what made MJ awesome.

[Tuck]

MJ, Gwen, and Harry all got about the same amount of time back then. Peter was dating MJ for a while before he started dating Gwen.

And Liz was nasty to Peter for 5 or 10 issues. She developed a crush on him pretty early on in the book.

[oldschool]

Well, this thread could get interesting....

Count me among those that feel MJ's backstory was painfully retrofitted to make her marriage material for Pete but it really wasn't done overnight.

IIRC, it was Gerry Conway who started to slowly start any kind of compassion/nuance to MJ right after Gwen died and she and Peter slowly stated drifting together. But then it was Marv Wolfman (I think) who jettisoned MJ from the title for 3-4 years before Uncle Rog brought her back. It was then DeFalco who introduced the idea that MJ had always known Pete's secret (very hamfisted and still unbelievable given all the scenes that run contrary) and, worse, the awkward painful family background introduced by Michelenie made "this" MJ seem to be a much different character.....honestly, almost as different as "Spider-Gwen" is from "our" Gwen; I am not suggesting either is bad but they are both light years away from the characters they originally were and the changes really can't be easily explained by "character growth". At least not IMO.

[Cmbmool]

But there was always a method to the madness, or in this case, a reason for MJ's Party Girl lifestyle and that's due to her upbringing as a child. Doesn't that matter in a way ?

[Michael P]

MJ hasn't been the "one-dimensional party girl" since Gwen died.

[Michael P]

the awkward painful family background introduced by Michelenie

That was DeFalco too.

[Steeler53]

But there was always a method to the madness, or in this case, a reason for MJ's Party Girl lifestyle and that's due to her upbringing as a child. Doesn't that matter in a way ?

Of course it matters. One of the biggest complaints that people have towards Spider-Man ( the comic) is that Marvel does not let Pete grow up. Character growth is important regardless if it is Pete, MJ or anyone. Even the most off the wall characters can grow ( see Alan in 'Hangover III'. This guy could barely function, but met Melissa McCarthy at the end of the movie and married her). MJ has grown since the 'Party Girl' days and besides only a multifaceted woman like MJ can handle being married to a superhero. Someone like Betty or Gwen (616 version)? Not happening successfully.

[Kevinroc]

That was DeFalco too.

Hinted at by Stern and Wolfman. DeFalco just laid it all out.

[Aruran.]

The backstory isn't that big of a problem. Every character should have problems, that's what makes them interesting.

I do agree though with MJ waiting by the window weakens her character. That's the one thing from the marriage I hate and don't wanna see again.

[Michael P]

I can't really recall much "waiting by the window". Maybe it all happened in Web, which I didn't read much of. DeMatteis and Michelinie, as I recall, tended to have MJ channel the frustration and worry into something.