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  1. #61
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cmbmool View Post
    I gave up on the Flash of the new 52. Especially after they made Wally West, the man that surpassed his mentor and became his own hero and had his own family, BLACK FOR THE SAKE OF DIVERSITY.

    As an African American myself, I find this a bit insulting in a way. I mean DC could've made a brand new character instead of taking an established character and changing his race and skin tone for profit.

    However, I'm not going to go further into a fit over a fictional character. D has made their bed and are going to try to sleep in it over this situation.

    I am here to ask you all where do we go from here with the new BLACK Wally West ?

    I mean does anyone expect him to join the Teen Titans, since they're down a speedster ?

    Or make occasional Appearances in other DC New 52 titles Post Convergence ?

    Honestly, where do we go from here with the new BLACK Wally West ?
    My take on it: do what they've done with Carrie Kelley over in the Batman titles. The last we saw of her, Alfred had given her a job at Wayne Manor; that was during their "five stages of grief" story arc, and she hasn't been seen or mentioned since. It's as if she never existed in the first place.

    The other thing I'd do would be to have Jenni Ognats appear in the pages of Flash. And not a New 52 reinvention of her, either; she would be the same XS who made her debut in the late-90s Legion of Superheroes and was last seen in Final Crisis: Legion of Three Worlds. She'd be there in part to scratch DC's diversity mandate, but primarily to push the Flash into having a more cosmic — indeed, Multiversal — scope.

    Which wouldn't have been possible pre-Convergence, but may be very doable post-Convergence.
    Last edited by Dataweaver; 04-03-2015 at 10:53 PM.
    Rogue wears rouge.
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  2. #62
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    They should reveal Wally isn't his real name and give this character a brand new identity and mold this 12 year old into the new Kid Flash. Then have the real Wally be a college student somewhere and reintroduce him that way. It's the only way to really salvage both characters I think.
    That would be a great solution. No one is saying no to introducing new African American characters. We're just against calling him Waly West.
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    If I may, here's how I think they should handle the new Wally West, both in the comics and other media:

    Have an adult, fully trained and outfitted Wally travel back in time. Give him the classic Wally West sense of humor and the full Mark Waid Speed Force derived extra abilities, such as taking speed away or giving it to people or objects. Give him a predominantly red costume (maybe base it on the Dark Flash one) instead of the silver one, and have him play a Max Mercury role to both Barry (colleague and peer with a few tricks up his sleeve) and Bart (overall mentor). Give him some major role in current comics. And have him arriving because someone is actually preventing his return home. Heck, go on and throw in his kids too. He can still be black, but because he's portrayed in a fully matured heroic manner, it's not as immediately important. And when he does leave, Barry knows to train him.

    For the show, do the same basic thing but, perhaps make him come from the same middle class African American background as Iris and Joe as a kid first, and build up his part as a big fan of the Flash. Then, have him exit the show as Rip Hunter's ally in the new CW series.
    See a actual decent idea.i still think changing any character specific part is BS,but if they kept every damn personality,hhistory,and physical trait besides the color of his skin it would be almost passable.

  4. #64
    Astonishing Member The Kid's Avatar
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    I think the biggest mistake was naming this kid Wally West. I don't mind TV Wally being Black or new 52 Kid Flash being Black but I'd like comic book Wally to be the same as before. I'd rather him be written out than changed
    DC, hurry up and make your own version of Marvel Unlimited!

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member Starter Set's Avatar
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    I don't give a darn about Blacky West.

  6. #66
    Astonishing Member Dataweaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemiaDrinker View Post
    As for the OP:

    I can't really say I care about Wally now being black, I don't. With this particular version, however, it bothers how they dug almost every possible negative stereotype possible in order to make him. It's like Falcon origin from the 70's or something. That's the problem with the racial component to me, which is magnified by the fact that they are all new traits, implanted into the character at the same time he's turned black. The implication, of course, is that the criminal tendencies and lacking father and all that are there because he's black. It may not be intentional, but it's a racist portrayal.

    Now - speaking as a Wally fan, not a bi-racial man- the fact that he's 12 is a deal breaker to me. His fandom haven't been asking for "Kid Flash" to be back for the last seven years. If he isn't to be top dog, do something else, not turn him into a nobody.

    So, what DC will do, I have no idea. If it was up to me they could Rip Hunter all this crap out, to be honest; put him back in his proper generation (Dick and Roy, not Damian) and be done with it. Not going to happen, though.
    Building off of this: if the New 52 Wally must be kept around, I'd either want to see his origin retconned to be less stereotypical, or I'd want them to do an Illyana Rasputin to him: for those who don't know, Illyana Rasputin was a character introduced into the X-Men comics back in Claremont's original run. Colossus' kid sister, she wasn't even a teenager when she first appeared. Then the X-Men had an adventure in a timeless dimension called Limbo; Illyana was involved, and was briefly separated from the others as they made their escape. When she followed them out moments later, she was in her mid-teens and had become the mutant sorceress Magik.

    We've recently had a "Barry lost in the Speed Force" story. Perhaps you could have a followup, but with Wally getting stuck in there and using it in a manner similar to Magik's Limbo: have him emerge moments after he enters, now in his late teens or early twenties and with speedster powers. Adjust his personality based on the five to ten years he spent in the Speed Force, possibly dropping hints about what happened to him during that time. Downplay everything from before then; from his perspective, everything from before his sojourn in the Speed Force feels like it was a lifetime ago.

    He wouldn't be the pre-Flashpoint Wally; but frankly, I'm fine with that: I think there's a real chance that we'll get more pre-Flashpoint Wally West stories post-Convergence. So let pre-Flashpoint Wally be pre-Flashpoint Wally, and let post-Flashpoint Wally be his own man.
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  7. #67
    Astonishing Member JackDaw's Avatar
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    What's the point of having a brand new story telling universe if every darn character has to be the same as he was before??

    And...I think what a lot of the anti-new guy posters are (implicitly) forgetting is that the "original" Wally West was the new guy himself once... and only had the room to grow and develop because at appropriate time Barry Allen was removed from scene. And before that Barry himself wasn't the original Flash.

    It's the story that counts ultimately...and the story options are severely weakened if characters can't develop, and ultimately retire/ die. Otherwise DC super hero comics become trapped in cartoon conventions even more firmly than now.

    Whether new Wally is white, black or green...it really doesn't matter. The writers make it all up...they are not reporting actual adventures. Give the writers and editors a bit of flexibility....change, real change is needed for worthwhile story telling...changing the design of the costumes from time to time doesn't cut it.

  8. #68
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackDaw View Post
    For me, the massive mistake was to bring back Hal Jordan and Barry Allen...
    ...or killing the two of them in the first place. It depends on whom you ask.

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  9. #69
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    They should just let his die a natural death eventually. Erase him off fan's mind, reduce the level of quality for him stories year after year until nobody cares about him anymore. Either that or kill Bart Allen and let Wally West be kid flash.

  10. #70
    Mighty Member Waterfall's Avatar
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    Race is only the tip of iceberg. It's his age and the way this story handled him, limits everything.

    He's younger than the people who saw him as their idol, his friends are already well into their 20s with acceptable duties. He just doesn't fit to DCU as it is now, so I was already accepting of changes.

    But they pretty much cheapened him, instead of actually planning a role for him. Anyone who says KF is his mantle doesn't understand why this character is liked at all. His KF period was boring and sometimes downright horrible. What made him a great hero was his evolution under Flash cowl, this kid can't go through that. Forget about that unimportant period of his life.

    I would have made him a 19 year old college student who was interested in Flash. He'd have been a little brother to Barry and would cause funny troubles to him with his hot head.

    Move him to somewhere else and give his side cast back and you have a solid ongoing with him. Alas they just didn't think anything about it and just put him there for the sake of publicity.

    Quote Originally Posted by nightrider View Post
    They should just let his die a natural death eventually. Erase him off fan's mind, reduce the level of quality for him stories year after year until nobody cares about him anymore.
    It's not a "should". This is practically what they've done to him.
    Last edited by Waterfall; 04-04-2015 at 03:13 AM.

  11. #71
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    A lot of the current writers say that it's impossible to create new minority characters that people will buy. But that's not true. If it's a good writer and a good character, people will buy it. The problem is that some people will buy old characters no matter what and completely igonore who's writing it. If said writer creates a decent minority character and write them well, they will catch on. See Static. I mean people didn't use to be afraid to create new minority characters, but now people write off the idea unless they happen to be a legacy character. Replacing old characters or changing existing ones is just flatout lazy and not the way to go.
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    Race is only the tip of iceberg. It's his age and the way this story handled him, limits everything.

    He's younger than the people who saw him as their idol, his friends are already well into their 20s with acceptable duties. He just doesn't fit to DCU as it is now, so I was already accepting of changes.

    But they pretty much cheapened him, instead of actually planning a role for him. Anyone who says KF is his mantle doesn't understand why this character is liked at all. His KF period was boring and sometimes downright horrible. What made him a great hero was his evolution under Flash cowl, this kid can't go through that. Forget about that unimportant period of his life.

    I would have made him a 19 year old college student who was interested in Flash. He'd have been a little brother to Barry and would cause funny troubles to him with his hot head.

    Move him to somewhere else and give his side cast back and you have a solid ongoing with him. Alas they just didn't think anything about it and just put him there for the sake of publicity.



    It's not a "should". This is practically what they've done to him.
    Its true though and I think they should stick with it. Barry's solo is hanging on thin ice, I dont think there'll be room for another spin off flash title.

  13. #73
    Incredible Member brandnewfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    Race is only the tip of iceberg. It's his age and the way this story handled him, limits everything.

    He's younger than the people who saw him as their idol, his friends are already well into their 20s with acceptable duties. He just doesn't fit to DCU as it is now, so I was already accepting of changes.

    But they pretty much cheapened him, instead of actually planning a role for him. Anyone who says KF is his mantle doesn't understand why this character is liked at all. His KF period was boring and sometimes downright horrible. What made him a great hero was his evolution under Flash cowl, this kid can't go through that. Forget about that unimportant period of his life.

    I would have made him a 19 year old college student who was interested in Flash. He'd have been a little brother to Barry and would cause funny troubles to him with his hot head.

    Move him to somewhere else and give his side cast back and you have a solid ongoing with him. Alas they just didn't think anything about it and just put him there for the sake of publicity.
    Exactly. Most spot-on post in the entire thread.

    I'd also like to point out he is now younger than freakin Bart Allen.

    Bad planning all around.

  14. #74
    Always Rakzo
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    There's a pretty simple way to handle this: Actually focus on character development.

    Venditti and Jensen barely touched the point of character progression for Wally. It's necessary to concentrate more on what is his true personality besides trying to follow other people's steps, he needs to get his own motivations.

  15. #75
    Wally 'Ginger' West fan
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    Change the kid's name to an original one so he can be an original character who is allowed to grow. Or make him the Nu52 Mopey and let him disappear just as fast.

    Bring back a *recognizable * Wally in the same vein that most of the returned heroes are recognizable. Give him a costume as elegant as Walter's was. Or...or leave him MIA.


    I swear. If they had made Vixen a PMS driven Asian gal I'd be nearly as pissed as I am about Wally. Nearly only because Wally is my fave....and he always will be as far as the status quo is now.
    Parental care is way exhausting. Gained insight into what my parents went through when I was a baby. Not fun, but what ya gonna do? (Read comics, obviously.)

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