Should Superman/Wonder Woman be a permanent couple?

[friendly-fire-press]

Majority of women that buys WW t-shirts, make up has no idea WW is dating superman. I don't see many smww market or so much its popularity

Can you verify that statement?

why would it be humiliating for WW share a JL book with many guys?

Because you're complaining about the fact she's sharing a book with ONE other character, implying that she's being overshadowed by him. Going by the numbers, she's more likely to be overshadowed if she's sharing a book with several characters ... how come that's okay, but sharing a book (and relationship) with Superman is somehow damaging?

JL is a thing for long time.

So what?

you are comparing apples and oranges.

No. I'm pointing out the inconsistency of your criticisms.

I ship WW with batman, steve trevor, Io. If WW got a 2nd book only because she is dating batman, I would criticize it. That is not fair for the character It's not nice just give a 2nd book because she is dating a more famous hero. But we aren't on that paralel universe I exercise my right to point the wrong approach of DC to WW in sMWW

If you say so. Tho I reserve my right to remain very skeptical regarding that comment.

[Sacred Knight]

Can you verify that statement?

The general rule of thumb here is an emphatic no.

I mean really. That's why there's a bunch of selfies all over the internet of couples wearing Superman and Wonder Woman shirts or other matching merchandise. Clearly the women in these pics have no idea that Wonder Woman is with Superman. :facepalm

[dangleo61288]

The general rule of thumb here is an emphatic no.

I mean really. That's why there's a bunch of selfies all over the internet of couples wearing Superman and Wonder Woman shirts or other matching merchandise. Clearly the women in these pics have no idea that Wonder Woman is with Superman. :facepalm

What I think Blacksun was trying to say that they are just buying it because it has Superheroes in it and it doesn't mean that they really are fans of the pairing.

[Sacred Knight]

That's still a silly dodge. I'm not suggesting every single person out there who buys Superman and Wonder Woman merchandise together is necessarily a fan of the pairing, but what possible support does she have to make blanket statements such as "the majority" don't? How the hell would she know what the majority of women are thinking when they buy this stuff? The answer is she doesn't, she just pulls these general statements out of thin air. All I know is that there's lots of couples out there who have bought such merchandise for that very reason. Is the minority? Majority? I don't know, so I'm not going to pretend to know. But just assuming they're conveniently in a minority because it doesn't fit her personal views is comical.

[Ascended]

you said this on the perspective of clark, but I don't see it good on perspective of WW. Majority that argument it say that clark spend a long time dating lois, but I don't think that was bad. Don't fix what is not broken

I think would be much better for WW date steve, but dc own prejudice against the character screwed that. hopeful that with steve trevor casting on the mvoie, things will change. I simply don't understand why DC and come writers treat superman as the only man to date WW.

steve and diana is not that familiar

I don't see WW being attracted to superman at all specially the one azzarello wrote. I can see more superficial reasons than anything else

Well, I come at this from a different perspective than you do. I spent years and years and years reading about Clark and Lois dating, getting engaged, and then married. And there's nothing wrong with that, for me it's always been and will always be Lois and Clark. But, after seeing that relationship grow and evolve, I was in no rush to see it started all over again. I've read it already. So I was perfectly willing to read something new. And I have no doubt that DC will retreat back to the familiar status quo when the shock wears off. They always do. So I am quite happy to sit back and watch these characters do other things and date other people before the return to the familiar. There's nothing wrong with the familiar, but its not as entertaining as the unknown.

For newer readers who did not experience the Lois/Clark relationship as i have, I can see how its annoying. But personally? I'd be fine if a decade was spent with Clark dating people other than Lois Lane (not necessarily Diana either). In comic book time, a decade is nothing. A fraction of the history these characters already have. So why not? I'd rather have a nice long break before getting back into the Lois/Clark thing, which will undoubtedly spend decades and decades playing "Will They/Won't They?". And for newer readers, those who stick around for a minute will get to experience those classic relationships play out as well. Just not right this moment.

As for Diana, she didnt get too serious with anyone during post-Crisis. She dated Aquaman for a while, and I actually really liked that pairing (Mera was either nowhere to be found, or written like a total b!tch). She dated Batman for about three seconds and I hated that. Then there was Nemesis, but he never really grabbed me as a serious contender for Diana. And Im sure there were others who Im forgetting. The best option in my mind was always Steve Trevor, but in post-Crisis that wasnt really possible. Now, I love the current take on Steve and would be extremely thrilled to see them together. But again, Im in no real rush to get there, in part because I've read it already in collected editions and in part because I consider it a foregone conclusion that we will, in fact, arrive at that destination.

As for Superman, I dont see Diana dating him as such a bad thing. Yes, he's more popular and well known. But its not like we're talking about Squirrel Girl here; everyone knows who Wonder Woman is. I dont see this doing any real damage to her cultural standing. They've dated for a couple years, its not like the whole world is suddenly going to declare that she's nothing but Superman's arm candy. And with the films on the way, I've little doubt that WB will want to market a product that is at least passingly familiar to audiences, and that means Lois and Steve.

For me, comics are not about the destination, they're about the journey getting there. No need to rush into the endgame, we have all the time in the world.

[Sacred Knight]

No need to establish an endgame at all. Defeats the point of an ongoing continuity entirely. That can and should be left entirely up to the reader's imagination until such time as your ongoing continuity is actually ending for whatever reason.

[Blacksun]

What I think Blacksun was trying to say that they are just buying it because it has Superheroes in it and it doesn't mean that they really are fans of the pairing.

sure it is a factor, specially if there isn't any other option with super-heroines. My buddy went shopping with his daughter and couldn't find merchandising with black widow. Not sure how it is the merchan of WW on hottopic, if there is only the smww t-shirt it is really problematic of the sexism on merchan.

But I'm talking more about the WW merchandising in general like make up, clothes, costume.

Well, I come at this from a different perspective than you do. I spent years and years and years reading about Clark and Lois dating, getting engaged, and then married. And there's nothing wrong with that, for me it's always been and will always be Lois and Clark. But, after seeing that relationship grow and evolve, I was in no rush to see it started all over again. I've read it already. So I was perfectly willing to read something new. And I have no doubt that DC will retreat back to the familiar status quo when the shock wears off. They always do. So I am quite happy to sit back and watch these characters do other things and date other people before the return to the familiar. There's nothing wrong with the familiar, but its not as entertaining as the unknown.

For newer readers who did not experience the Lois/Clark relationship as i have, I can see how its annoying. But personally? I'd be fine if a decade was spent with Clark dating people other than Lois Lane (not necessarily Diana either). In comic book time, a decade is nothing. A fraction of the history these characters already have. So why not? I'd rather have a nice long break before getting back into the Lois/Clark thing, which will undoubtedly spend decades and decades playing "Will They/Won't They?". And for newer readers, those who stick around for a minute will get to experience those classic relationships play out as well. Just not right this moment.

As for Diana, she didnt get too serious with anyone during post-Crisis. She dated Aquaman for a while, and I actually really liked that pairing (Mera was either nowhere to be found, or written like a total b!tch). She dated Batman for about three seconds and I hated that. Then there was Nemesis, but he never really grabbed me as a serious contender for Diana. And Im sure there were others who Im forgetting. The best option in my mind was always Steve Trevor, but in post-Crisis that wasnt really possible. Now, I love the current take on Steve and would be extremely thrilled to see them together. But again, Im in no real rush to get there, in part because I've read it already in collected editions and in part because I consider it a foregone conclusion that we will, in fact, arrive at that destination.

As for Superman, I dont see Diana dating him as such a bad thing. Yes, he's more popular and well known. But its not like we're talking about Squirrel Girl here; everyone knows who Wonder Woman is. I dont see this doing any real damage to her cultural standing. They've dated for a couple years, its not like the whole world is suddenly going to declare that she's nothing but Superman's arm candy. And with the films on the way, I've little doubt that WB will want to market a product that is at least passingly familiar to audiences, and that means Lois and Steve.

For me, comics are not about the destination, they're about the journey getting there. No need to rush into the endgame, we have all the time in the world.

DC was pretty clear that they were going for people like me, that were new to comics. Anything is new to us. But of course that was another lie. Smallville brought a lot of new fans into comics, only to be dissapointed about how superman and lois are handled. DC could had grab them into main line.

if they were so bored with lois and clark, made him date a bunch of girls so. Spider man dated at least 3 women since his marriage was retconned carol danvers, black cat and carly cooper. and he had a think with silk. now Superman continue to be predictable and boring. even before the reboot they announced superman would date WW, he only dated WW after the reboot. It got boring fast and limited his books. there should be romances and more open storylines to that, but they can't. this is limiting as the marriage was.

Reality is that most writers were trying to hook up her with Superman, and editorial didn't wanted her to have full relationships with anyone that wasn't superman. I don't know why you hated her brief relationship with batman, that was much better handled than now with superman. You forgot trevor barnes that readers got mad he was black and was going to sleep with WW, keep calling DC offices and DC didn't let jimenez go forward with the story. So good DC pander to this type of fan aff...

most of world will probaly watch the WW movie with trevor as her love interest, so I think movies can save WW. But damage for WW on comics is being done right now. Put her as superman girlfriend made her lose identity and independency.

I don't really want to rush, but I want it to start. If people don't get what they want they go away, DC can try to put a lot of gimmicks but their sales are falling. The journey at least have to be good, and I think DC is screwing steve, diana, lois and clark on the process.

everybody knows the endgame

[Meow]

I think they are supercute together.

[Sacred Knight]

There is a vast library out there of Superman stories where Superman and Lois are together. If fans of the show want to see that in comic form, there is absolutely no shortage of material. Furthermore fans of the show specifically got a direct continuation of the show in comic form. Let's stop pretending that Smallville fans are somehow being screwed. You've gotten more than DC was ever required to give outside the television show itself.

But even that aside, in general terms, superhero comics are not a primetime television drama. So there's going to be vast differences and the onus is on the consumer to understand this. Even Smallville season 11 focused a LOT more on action and superhero plotlines. Even in the day when Lois and Clark were an item, it was nothing like the tv show. Because they are two very different animals. The show was intentionally vastly different by way of utilizing the mythos in a new genre and medium. The job of the comics is not to cater to Smallville fans. If the show inspired them to check it out and they liked what they saw, excellent. If not, of course that's fine too. But overall Smallville fans have been treated quite well anyway.

[DochaDocha]

No need to establish an endgame at all. Defeats the point of an ongoing continuity entirely. That can and should be left entirely up to the reader's imagination until such time as your ongoing continuity is actually ending for whatever reason.

You know, the exit strategy (seems like I've been talking about exit strategies a lot lately) is my second biggest concern for the entire Superman/Wonder Woman pairing. Maybe it's because of Kingdom Come, or some of Alan Moore's suggestions, but I've developed this expectation for the characters that if the two ever decided to enter a long-term relationship with one another, it'd be extremely permanent. I know that doesn't really give leeway to writing the characters as two individuals trying to find their footing, and that the most probabilistic outcome of any two people entering a relationship with one another is that it'll eventually terminate for reasons other than death do they part, but something just seems really unappealing about the big ol' breakup between Wonder Woman and Supes. When you also add to that the feeling of inevitability that Superman will eventually end up with Lois, because that's the way it's always been, some part of me wonders if they should've even bothered making a Superman/Wonder Woman relationship in the current canon timeline. So, if someone said to me that DC shouldn't pair up Supes and Wonder Woman because the break up is going to happen, and it's going to be stupid, I have zero arguments against that other than saying there's a small chance that they don't break up. But then that would lead us to my single biggest concern about the pairing...

[Meow]

I Think they should get married and have a little SuperWonder

[Blacksun]

You know, the exit strategy (seems like I've been talking about exit strategies a lot lately) is my second biggest concern for the entire Superman/Wonder Woman pairing. Maybe it's because of Kingdom Come, or some of Alan Moore's suggestions, but I've developed this expectation for the characters that if the two ever decided to enter a long-term relationship with one another, it'd be extremely permanent. I know that doesn't really give leeway to writing the characters as two individuals trying to find their footing, and that the most probabilistic outcome of any two people entering a relationship with one another is that it'll eventually terminate for reasons other than death do they part, but something just seems really unappealing about the big ol' breakup between Wonder Woman and Supes. When you also add to that the feeling of inevitability that Superman will eventually end up with Lois, because that's the way it's always been, some part of me wonders if they should've even bothered making a Superman/Wonder Woman relationship in the current canon timeline. So, if someone said to me that DC shouldn't pair up Supes and Wonder Woman because the break up is going to happen, and it's going to be stupid, I have zero arguments against that other than saying there's a small chance that they don't break up. But then that would lead us to my single biggest concern about the pairing...

what it would be your biggest concern