Should Superman/Wonder Woman be a permanent couple?

[Sacred Knight]

Yes. The only real one, anyway.

There were other romantic interests along the way just to keep things interesting (to give Lois something to fret about, back when stringing her along was DC's way of dealing with a love interest), but there was never any question that Lois was the one he'd end up with. As much as DC played up the Lois/Lana rivalry in Lois's own comic, nobody seriously thought he'd end up with Lana. It was always Lois. Anything/anybody else was just a plot complication. That was much more true for Superman than for most other heroes, including Wonder Woman.

That that's the way it was before doesn't mean that's the way it has to be now. Proven by the fact that it isn't the way it is now. To work it the exact same way is predictable and boring, and its not like there's tons of room with these characters to be genuinely new in the first place. That's why you see some of these overbearing rules for characters like Superman and Wonder Woman particularly being dropped after the relaunch. Their iconic status led to an unfortunate look but don't touch mindset that hindered creativity. And again, with characters as old as they are, the last thing that needs to be done is to hamstring them further. Its hard enough. I'm just glad the tune has changed and their more lax with the possibilities and not holding to some rules just because it was that way before.

I have no more interest in knowing who the present day Superman will end up with for the rest of his life any more than I have any desire to know any other pertinent details that will never be fulfilled anyway in an ongoing continuity, like how and when he eventually dies, if he has children, and so on and so forth. That's the appeal of the ongoing, until they decide so time is endless and thus so should the possibilities within reason.

[buttler]

That that's the way it was before doesn't mean that's the way it has to be now. Proven by the fact that it isn't the way it is now.

Right. That's the way it was for 73 years, and it's not the way it is at the moment. And absolutely, we can have a couple of years of Supes/WW, just like we had a couple of years of powerless white suit Diana or Electric Superman--or dead Superman, or somebody else being Wonder Woman for a while. You have to change it up every now and then. It's a fun diversion for a little while before they go back to the basics.

[misslane]

That's not keeping things interesting. That's keeping things predictable and boring. I'm just thankful DC has learned this lesson and has stopped with these overbearing rules for Superman. I don't blame the fans for holding to them because DC perpetuated it in the first place. Old habits die hard. But thankfully the tune has changed.

This makes zero sense. The Post-Crisis/Pre-Flashpoint marriage was breaking the rules. Prior to that continuity, Lois and Superman were perpetually star-crossed until just prior to a reboot or until an elseworld could be created for them. Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age, the Reeve/Kidder films, the Reeves series, and the Timm animated series all kept Lois and Superman apart or kept them apart until the very end of the story. The continuity prior to the New 52 was groundbreaking; it was unpredictable. It's amazing how you can describe returning to the old rules of the 30-80s as embracing unpredictable storytelling.

Superman dating other women, including Wonder Woman, is not a new thing. Exploring the relationship for this long is new, but the concept of Superman dating other women besides Lois Lane is not. The Post-Crisis began with five years of Lois and Clark dating other people. So far, the New 52 has only changed the old tune by changing the characters Clark and Lois are dating. It's also pretty obvious that the sort of rules fans like you want DC to discard is relative. You wouldn't want DC to abandon all of its rules for Superman, in other words. Would it be cool, for example, if Superman left his Clark Kent identity behind?

Finally, I am continually confused by the notion that revisiting a romance established in prior continuities is predictable. There have been many incarnations of Superman stories, and each one has told its own story in its own way. Lois and Superman's relationship in Superman: The Movie is not the same relationship in Smallville; it's not the same in Man of Steel either. A fan of the George Reeves series in the 1950s could not have predicted how Lois and Clark would relate to each other in the Ruby Spears cartoons of the 1980s. The stories Bruce Timm told wouldn't help you figure out what was going to happen in Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman. When you read Greg Pak's recent Bizarro Action Comics issue, did reading similar stories in the past ruin your experience or spoil the ending? I doubt it. It's a simplistic perspective and a massive double standard.

[Sacred Knight]

Right. That's the way it was for 73 years, and it's not the way it is at the moment. And absolutely, we can have a couple of years of Supes/WW, just like we had a couple of years of powerless white suit Diana or Electric Superman--or dead Superman, or somebody else being Wonder Woman for a while. You have to change it up every now and then. It's a fun diversion for a little while before they go back to the basics.

But what is the basics? Outside of the meaningless buzz word PR likes to throw around, I consider that the certain aspects of a character's mythos which cannot be changed lest you lose the character, I get that, but why do other aspects have to remain unchanged for a longer period than what would be considered a diversion? If Lois is around, has a strong presence, but is not the main interest for the long haul, does it counter the interests of Superman, the main character? In my opinion, no, it doesn't. And I'm not even talking specifically Wonder Woman here. I'm talking anyone. Romantic options do not have to be a diversion. Regardless how long it was there, Superman doesn't fail to function without the Lois romance angle. Lois Lane doesn't fail to function without it. You just do it, and see what happens. At least that's the approach DC seems to be taking, and I support that. 70+ years of being each other's main love interest does not mean it has to always be that way. They can go back to it whenever they want to. I just continue to reject the idea that they absolutely have to. In fact I'm pretty confident it won't for some time to come, completely independent of what happens with the SM/WW situation. If that title and relationship ended tomorrow I'd STILL bank on them going a different direction in the name of exploring different possibilities.

[buttler]

But what is the basics? There are certain aspects of a character's mythos which cannot be changed lest you lose the character, I get that, but why do other aspects have to remain unchanged. If Lois is around, has a strong presence, but is not the main interest for the long haul, does it counter the interests of Superman, the main character? In my opinion, no, it doesn't. And I'm not even talking specifically Wonder Woman here. I'm talking anyone. Romantic options do not have to be a diversion. Regardless how long it was there, Superman doesn't fail to function without it. Lois Lane doesn't fail to function without. 70+ years of being each other's main love interest does not mean it has to be that way going forward.

Sure. I mean, Lois could move to Mars to become a Space Cop, and Superman could be time-displaced to the American Civil War era, unable to ever return. I wouldn't bet on that being a permanent state of affairs, but it's comics. Anything can happen.

[misslane]

Deleted post.

[Sacred Knight]

Sure. I mean, Lois could move to Mars to become a Space Cop, and Superman could be time-displaced to the American Civil War era, unable to ever return. I wouldn't bet on that being a permanent state of affairs, but it's comics. Anything can happen.

And both of those examples lose the spirit of the character (well, not time travel with Superman per se, but certainly a permanent relocation). Clark and Lois not being primary love interests does not, in my opinion, lose the spirit of the characters. Maybe a long time ago it would have hurt Lois a lot more, back in the days when she functioned as absolutely nothing BUT his love interest. But that changed in the 60s when her title took on more independent and progressive themes.

That's just the line where you and me disagree at its heart, I'd imagine.

[buttler]

Also, in terms of the reasonableness of the Clark/Superman identity dichotomy vs. the Clark/Lois romance, there really isn't much of a difference as both narrative devices have been integral to Superman stories since Action Comics #1 in 1938.

Yeah, that's all I'm saying. There are certain story elements that have been remarkably consistent, and the Superman/Lois one is more so than, say, Clark's upbringing with the Kents, which has changed more over time but which one might now see as more integral to his character. Yeah, he doesn't have to love Lois. He doesn't have to be a reporter. He can have a new secret identity entirely. The possibilities are endless. And it's within the realm of possibility that DC could decide to make some of those changes permanent, but I don't think these are ones that are likely. And personally, I'd hate to see them go. I think his relationship with Lois is one of the few things that makes Clark interesting, because she's so much better than he is in so many ways and really challenges him, and that part of course is just a matter of opinion.

[The Kid]

Permanently? Nah. I think DC heroes at their best work in their own worlds that interact every now and then but that's just my personal opinion

[hellacre]

Touching on the merchandise argument, and the popularity of Superman and Lois, I thought this review of a SM/WW t-shirt from Hot Topic was funny and telling:



Link

On random comment means nothing in the greater scheme of things. What matters is people lapping up the merchandise. And many are superhero fans too. And this is just a fraction of the stuff as people well know. To pretend otherwise is burying one's head in the sand. Sure people know LL/SM but SM/WW is a pairing that is taking hold in pop culture currently. Even with MOS out with LL/SM it makes no difference, people will buy the SM/WW merchandise. And one just need to look around social media. It's there.

This is just a fraction of the people wearing the status quo.

[hellacre]

SM by itself is a brand and so is WW and they makes tons of money for WB. Now we have another brand on the market. And there have been bags, ring sets, buttons, statues, toys etc. Halloween, Christmas and Valentines people just gravitate to the two heroes together.



This is coming coming later btw.




DC/WB might very well play to both audiences. Give sm/ll fans stuff in media as well like movies etc but they would be foolish not to realize SM/WW is viable. End of the day the movies never really affect comics. DC will do what they want to do but being able to just do something different in canon, not rehash the same thing is what drives comics. Marvel undid the Spidey/MJ marriage. And Gwen seems to have benefited (more than MJ) in the long run having come back to audiences' consciousness..

[Blacksun]

On random comment means nothing in the greater scheme of things. What matters is people lapping up the merchandise. And many are superhero fans too. And this is just a fraction of the stuff as people well know. To pretend otherwise is burying one's head in the sand. Sure people know LL/SM but SM/WW is a pairing that is taking hold in pop culture currently. Even with MOS out with LL/SM it makes no difference, people will buy the SM/WW merchandise. And one just need to look around social media. It's there.

This is just a fraction of the people wearing the status quo.

sorry but there is many songs referencing Lois and superman (eminem feat rihanna being one hell of success), and there is lois and clark merchandising too.
Millions went to watch MOS, and watched the tv shows and animated movies and series. The global impact is much bigges than few thousands buying the smww book or some people using a smww t-shirt

[hellacre]

sorry but there is many songs referencing Lois and superman (eminem feat rihanna being one hell of success), and there is lois and clark merchandising too.
Millions went to watch MOS, and watched the tv shows and animated movies and series. The global impact is much bigges than few thousands buying the smww book or some people using a smww t-shirt

Do those songs help WB Entertainment and DC comics make money? No they don't. They work for the people singing them and believe me I don't think Emimen's or Rihanna's success is because Lois lane is mentioned in one song about a dysfunctional relationship between two people. There are things call homage and pop culture references. That is all it is. It's not about clois' great love. You're grasping at straws trying to disprove sm/ww merchandising is out there and sells. I find that really funny actually you'd come to argue with a reason that has evidence because you prefer clois. My point here right now has nothing to do with what you personally ship. If it was about that DC would never break up the marriage and reboot with Clark and Diana. I am giving a sound reason why SM/WW might very well continue in this main earth for a while in addition to new story telling. (At least until maybe the next reboot.) The global impact of MOS is for SM. Not clois. And once again, MOS has no significant impact on comic sales any more than Avengers. That is a moot point you're bringing up. In fact two moot points.

[Baseman]

sorry but there is many songs referencing Lois and superman (eminem feat rihanna being one hell of success), and there is lois and clark merchandising too.
Millions went to watch MOS, and watched the tv shows and animated movies and series. The global impact is much bigges than few thousands buying the smww book or some people using a smww t-shirt

Umm that doesn't prove much regarding SM/Lois. I mean sure a lot of people were expecting to see SM/LL in MOS and other Superman programming but like the earlier commenter said, that doesn't mean that if Lois was replaced with WW these people wouldn't have watched it.
Let's be real here.The only people who care about superman's love life are comic book fans and shippers.The major of the viewship really don't care who Superman is currently sleeping with ( so long as at written well)

[JBatmanFan05]

Supes/WW is a travesty and should not be permanent, or even continue.

Superman has Lois and Lana, and WW has Steve Trevor.