IGN Between the Panels: Why Spider-Man Should Stay a Swinging Bachelor

[Vortex85]

There is no difference.in a story where the characters are NOT seeing anyone and the stories where Peter's existing relationship is just not part of the story. I dont see why the plot would change other than maybe some thought bubbles on Peter wishing he was with someone, though that could be improved on by thought bubbles about actual relationship issues and responsibilities as opposed to to the absense of them. Or they can be excluded all together. We dont really see Peter longing for a relationship these days, to be honest its kind of weird at this point given his history of failure in them due to his hero life putting women in his life in great stress and danger. Why go out of his way to subject anyone else to it?

[Tuck]

There is no difference.in a story where the characters are NOT seeing anyone and the stories where Peter's existing relationship is just not part of the story.

Aunt May gets in his business when he's single. You had that issue with Betty trying to set him up. You get characters like Norah hitting on him. Being single is different from a story perspective.

[Vortex85]

Aunt May gets in his business when he's single. You had that issue with Betty trying to set him up. You get characters like Norah hitting on him. Being single is different from a story perspective.

Aww... your right. How others see Peter changes. Lol, thats true.

[Webhead]

I appreciate the passion and civility on both sides.

There aren't that many stories that can only be told with a married Spider-Man, especially if Marvel's not interested in turning him into a dad.

That's implying the number of possible routes to take with a married status quo is limited and the possible storylines of a single Peter aren't. There are tons of nuances to a marriage status quo even without children just as there is to the single Peter path, JMS touched upon some of them during his run and that's barely scratching the surface of more complex situations of character interactions and development. Settling down prevents from telling some stories, true, but the story potential being "limited" by it is no different than any plot development limiting, that is, choosing story and character possibilities. Saying a storytelling choice (or any kind of choice) limits you is equal to saying growing up in a certain way prevents you from being a different person when you're an adult; not incorrect, but needlessly cynical thinking. Consider how many interesting Spider-Man supporting characters have died over the years and how that limits story potential. Mind you, these aren't characters that lend themselves well to comic book resurrections, but there's generally not an outcry about the stories that can't be told now that they're dead and can't make feasible returns. Readers have mostly embraced gotten used to the new circumstances created by those characters' absence.

When Peter's single, it allows for stories you get when Peter's dating someone else, and when he's not actually seeing anyone, as well as stories where Mary Jane's dating someone else, or not seeing anyone. Every potential romantic interest allows for slightly different stories.

My problem with this mathematical thinking (single means 4 variables, married means 1), is that, again, stories that play within the status quo (making it "plastic" as someone else said a while ago) but introduce significant character interplay/development are unfairly ignored as being part of one big, fixed situation. The increasing combinations of a married Peter are out there and have already been showcased to some extent.

Then there's also the problem that, regardless of what theoretically would and wouldn't work, I wholeheartedly agree with the notion that nothing relevant has been done to take advantage of Peter's 'refreshed' romantic life after OMD...

[Mister Mets]

There is no difference.in a story where the characters are NOT seeing anyone and the stories where Peter's existing relationship is just not part of the story. I dont see why the plot would change other than maybe some thought bubbles on Peter wishing he was with someone, though that could be improved on by thought bubbles about actual relationship issues and responsibilities as opposed to to the absense of them. Or they can be excluded all together. We dont really see Peter longing for a relationship these days, to be honest its kind of weird at this point given his history of failure in them due to his hero life putting women in his life in great stress and danger. Why go out of his way to subject anyone else to it?

One story is about a Peter Parker who is in a successful relationship, and another story is about a Peter Parker who is not. That changes character interactions and subtext.

We probably don't see Peter Parker longing for a relationship since he had to break things off with Otto's girlfriend, and then dealt with his primal attraction to Silk. His status as a single guy has affected some of the stories.

I appreciate the passion and civility on both sides.

That's implying the number of possible routes to take with a married status quo is limited and the possible storylines of a single Peter aren't. There are tons of nuances to a marriage status quo even without children just as there is to the single Peter path, JMS touched upon some of them during his run and that's barely scratching the surface of more complex situations of character interactions and development. Settling down prevents from telling some stories, true, but the story potential being "limited" by it is no different than any plot development limiting, that is, choosing story and character possibilities. Saying a storytelling choice (or any kind of choice) limits you is equal to saying growing up in a certain way prevents you from being a different person when you're an adult; not incorrect, but needlessly cynical thinking. Consider how many interesting Spider-Man supporting characters have died over the years and how that limits story potential. Mind you, these aren't characters that lend themselves well to comic book resurrections, but there's generally not an outcry about the stories that can't be told now that they're dead and can't make feasible returns. Readers have mostly embraced gotten used to the new circumstances created by those characters' absence.


My problem with this mathematical thinking (single means 4 variables, married means 1), is that, again, stories that play within the status quo (making it "plastic" as someone else said a while ago) but introduce significant character interplay/development are unfairly ignored as being part of one big, fixed situation. The increasing combinations of a married Peter are out there and have already been showcased to some extent.

Then there's also the problem that, regardless of what theoretically would and wouldn't work, I wholeheartedly agree with the notion that nothing relevant has been done to take advantage of Peter's 'refreshed' romantic life after OMD...

I did go with mathematical thinking because someone mentioned "I can understand people prefering him single, but the amount of stories that can't be told isn't be the only thing to take into account here. What about the stories that can only be told with a married Peter? What about the stories that can be told with either status quo? The latter two vastly outnumber the stories "lost" due to marriage."

A lot of the questions on whether a status is relevant to a story is subjective, but Marvel's told stories post-OMD that were different because Peter was single.

MJ's absence was a big part of what defined Peter Parker's life in Brand New Day.
His friends with benefits relationship with Black Cat ended badly.
He fell in love in Astonishing Spider-Man & Wolverine (an excellent mini-series by Jason Aaron and one of the Kuberts.)
His relationship with Carlie Cooper was a big part of the Big Time and Spider Island.
He had the later awkward realization that his two exes have become friends.
He was jealous when Black Cat hooked up with Daredevil.
Otto took advantage of Peter's distance from MJ in order to maintain the mind swap.
And then there's the stuff in the post-relaunch ASM.

[Tuck]

His friends with benefits relationship with Black Cat ended badly.

Ugh. That whole Eyes Wide Shut deal was an embarrassment.

I'm counting that as an argument for married Peter.

[Chrysalis_Changling]

so i get the feeling that team spider-man is basically saying "Married People are boring....you stop being that cool dude once you get hitched"

[Zeitgeist]

I'm actually pretty sure that's the mindset of many younger Spider-Man readers.

The bachelor Peter was developed over 25 years,but there is more potential in terms of story wise a character being a bachelor because then infinite romantic interest can be developed in diferent directions.The development of the marriage of Peter and MJ had much ground covered during the 20 years that SQ was in the stories.Thus my preference over the bachelor SQ.

Co-sign

And that's the problem right there. Marvel wants to show "progress" and keeps claiming that OMD was to shake up the status quo (as "reverting backwards" doesn't have the same ring to it). But when they have an opportunity to show REAL progress that hasn't been done much in fiction before (though it has been done brilliantly time and again, the biggest current example being Saga), they shy away instantly.

That's not a very fair comparison. Saga will eventually come to a conclusion because it's a finite story written by one author. Spider-Man is a serial, written by many authors with no intended end in sight.

Then you have to take into account that as a long running serial which transcends generations with a constant influx of young readers, that it can't age with it's earlier readers.

[Vortex85]

I'm actually pretty sure that's the mindset of many younger Spider-Man readers.

A flawed assumption considering most younger readers would have started after OMD and would not have read those stories for themselves. As a younger reader, I found the title very entertaining. Currently I find the cliche'd "hero can't get girl" stereotype to be much more boring than when the hero had the girl and they had to deal with the craziness together.

Also, I'd take fun interactions like this:



Over annoying stuff like this:



EVERY TIME.

[Zeitgeist]

A flawed assumption considering most younger readers would have started after OMD and would not have read those stories for themselves. As a younger reader, I found the title very entertaining.

Well as a young reader concerning this specific aspect, I did not. I'll stick to my assumption that teen readers don't find too much relatable about a married super-hero dealing with mortgages and the melodrama of Mary Jane taking up smoking or grilling him for staying out too late superheroing, since most teens are... you know, not married or dealing with mortgages.

Also, I'd take fun interactions like this:

You mean Spider-Man has had no fun interactions with anyone since One More Day? Well then!

[Vortex85]

Well as a young reader concerning this specific aspect, I did not. I'll stick to my assumption that teen readers don't find too much relatable about a married super-hero dealing with mortgages and the melodrama of Mary Jane taking up smoking or grilling him for staying out too late superheroing, since most teens are... you know, not married or dealing with mortgages.

LOL, like the marriage was all about mortgages. Mary Jane didn't grill Peter about staying out late superheroing during THAT much of the marraige, partifcularly not during Michelinie/Todd McFarlane's run, or JMS', so it's not like those types of interactions are required. Also, one subplot of smoking, ok then, better than some of the crap post-OMD like basically NOT BEING IN THE BOOK AT ALL for years at a time.

So Spider-Man has had no fun interactions with anyone since One More Day? Well then!

None that count, not like MJ.

[Scott Taylor]

From the article, with my response:

1. He has to remain the perpetually unlucky loser who never quite finds professional success or lasting romance.

-Thats not my Spider-Man. He hasn't been that guy since Amazing Fantasy #15, pre-bite. When he got Spider powers, everything changed. He became better looking and found tons of professional success - as Spider-Man, his only lasting profession but still his profession. He has never been a loser, except by the standard people put on him in-story who don't know the whole story.

2. The resulting Brand New Day status quo reinvigorated Peter and his world. It offered a fresh start for readers. It brought new talent to the pages of Amazing Spider-Man. It resulted in all sorts of excellent stories like The Gauntlet, Spider-Island and Superior Spider-Man. ASM is in such a strong place right now that it routinely outsells the various X-Men and Avengers books and even Marvel’s most heavily hyped event comics.

-All of those stories could have been told with a married Spider-Man. Just remove the boring parts about whoever he was ignoring...I mean shacking up with...at the time.

3. The two characters were married not because it was the immediate logical extension of their romantic relationship at the time.

-Yes it was. They had already had marriage proposals between them before and had become very close since the night Gwen Stacy died. Like it or not, the necessary background was there.

[Darthfury78]

None that count, not like MJ.

We only have one writer doing ASM, and we do not have the secondary Spider-Man titles anymore that could explore those relationships. Most of Mary Jane's relationship with Peter happened outside of the ASM titles like Spectacular Spider-man...

[Tuck]

dealing with mortgages

Helping Aunt May cover the bills has been part of the story since the beginning.

Financial insecurity isn't an adult thing either. If a family is struggling, everyone feels it. It's not an idea automatically foreign to younger readers.

[Vortex85]

We only have one writer doing ASM, and we do not have the secondary Spider-Man titles anymore that could explore those relationships. Most of Mary Jane's relationship with Peter happened outside of the ASM titles like Spectacular Spider-man...

Really? I'd say it's about even treatment among the titles. I don't think ASM featured Peter/MJ any less than other titles.

What I'm saying is, people are kidding themselves to think that Marvel isn't dead set on keeping MJ as the goal for Peter. They are pretending right now so as to keep up the illusion that Peter could end up with anyone. But OMD said it all, they could have divorced and proven they didn't see Peter and MJ as the ultimate couple, but OMD proved it and showed that the end goal is MJ and no one else. Everything in between is just a show, a diversion, and won't matter. I knew this as a fan as soon as it happened and I knew what I was in for if I stuck around, so I dropped the title for years, and I wasn't wrong, post-OMD is so predictably boring, and an exercise in futility.