My thoughts on WW villain

[SiegePerilous02]

There was also something about Minerva picking her targets carefully, and preferably people nobody would miss (other criminals, possibly the homeless, etc), and killing them in secrecy that I find way creepier than her slaughtering lots of people all at once. Like when Diana visited her castle* in one of the early issues, she could feel that something terrible had happened on the grounds but there were no gory body parts spread all over the place.

*Remember when she had a big ass ancestral castle filled with all the cool crap she found on her adventures? I miss those days.

[AmiMizuno]

There was also something about Minerva picking her targets carefully, and preferably people nobody would miss (other criminals, possibly the homeless, etc), and killing them in secrecy that I find way creepier than her slaughtering lots of people all at once. Like when Diana visited her castle* in one of the early issues, she could feel that something terrible had happened on the grounds but there were no gory body parts spread all over the place.

*Remember when she had a big ass ancestral castle filled with all the cool crap she found on her adventures? I miss those days.

You mean the Wonder Dome? This is where she is very much different from Lex or The Joker. Joker will kill anyone if it's fun but he can be very skilled if he wants to. Lex is also would rather send otherss to do his work. Minerva would rather be careful who she she targets.

[SiegePerilous02]

You mean the Wonder Dome? This is where she is very much different from Lex or The Joker. Joker will kill anyone if it's fun but he can be very skilled if he wants to. Lex is also would rather send otherss to do his work. Minerva would rather be careful who she she targets.

No, Diana had the Wonder Dome. Minerva just had an ordinary castle that was her ancestral home. After Perez, I think Jimenez was the only creator to remember she had it.

[AmiMizuno]

No, Diana had the Wonder Dome. Minerva just had an ordinary castle that was her ancestral home. After Perez, I think Jimenez was the only creator to remember she had it.

Sorry I read that wrong. That's pretty cool. That should be brought back but only she could get to it.

[Slowpokeking]

Given the numerous magical artifacts that exist in the DCU, someone who is always seeking them and is powerful herself sounds plenty dangerous. Also, Luthor manages to be threatening to Superman despite just being a corrupt businessman.

It IS tired. It's basically saying that the only way a woman can succeed at anything is through sex appeal and that is sexist.

Lex has the money and intelligence.

No, it's not tired, just depend on how do you write it well. A woman using her charisma and tricks to succeed is no different than a man use his to succeed. It even happens a lot in real life.

[Darius]

She does have a personality, the problem is it's just different depending on the era (like Diana herself, really). She started as a petty and vain socialite who snapped into a monstrous alter ego when her pride was threatened, and her post-Crisis self was a callous treasure hunter who was driven by her pursuits of fame, power and, above all, knowledge and adventure. None of the other principal nemeses are particularly interested in the pursuit of archaeological knowledge.

A woman using her sex and charm for evil is a tired patriarchal view of women with sex appeal = bad girls. It can make for some great characters, and as I said I love Catwoman, Ivy and Harley a lot, but it's over used. Batman doesn't have many female villains that don't rely on sex appeal: the aforementioned three, Talia, Roxy Rocket, and newer ones like Scorpiana and Jezebel (ugh) Jet. Jane Doe might be it for variety, but nobody really uses her. Wonder Woman subverts this by being sexy and fun while being the heroine. She can have sexy villains like the Baroness and Circe, and Cheetah and Giganta can be sexy while in their regular human forms, but that should be it. She has vengeful goddesses, mad scientists and magic users in her rogues gallery who don't need to rely on sex appeal to be interesting.



I'd say the Golden Age Priscilla Rich represented the worst aspects of a patriarchal culture while Diana represented the best of a matriarchal one. She represented the petty, hissing hair pulling competitions between women over petty things like beauty, fame and the attentions of men that our society encourages, especially more so in those days. Her repressed personality exploded and lashed out at everyone around her, including people who didn't really deserve it like WW. Diana grew up in a society that allowed her to flourish and empower herself and learn responsibility, while Priscilla was expected to look pretty and marry a rich dude or something. In post-Crisis canon, there is plenty of archetype imagery associated with her: she is the Greek monster to Diana's Greek hero, a beast woman who hunts and is hunted by a woman named after the huntress, she shared her last name with a Roman goddess whom the Roman's didn't have much use for compared to the much revered Athena, etc. Priscilla's fractured mental state and talking to her evil self in the mirror is evocative of figures like the Evil Queen from Snow White, Jekyll/Hyde and Smeagol/Gollum. If DC could finally get their heads out of their butts and works all this into a coherent version, she'd represent a lot of the stuff Diana was sent to fight against, even if she didn't have a longterm ideology (which doesn't stop Black Manta, Reverse Flash and the Rogues).

Her knowledge of deadly mystical relics could easily lead to her sparking a disaster that effects the wider DCU, so I don't really buy that she couldn't be the main figure in a WW-themed crossover if DC bothered to do one.

Cheetah is all over the place. It's not just characterization, it's the lack of what the characters purpose has been in Diana's universe. In the GA she served as a potentially impossible villain to reform and forwarded the concept behind WW. In Post-Crisis she was set up as a sort of reverse-WW (one of many such WW villains). She was more of a physical threat, but she never really accomplished much against Diana's goal of bringing peace. She was always very small scale and never furthered an agenda that could be in opposition to Diana's purpose as a Hero.

[The S0/\/\@7ic Si/\/\[]Dl370n]

I have an idea. They can have Donna be her arch-nemesis.




















Ugh.

[ed2962]

I think Cheetah both benefits and suffers from the Superfriends cartoon. On one hand, cuz she was there, folks just accept that she's WW's arch foe. Yet some fans watch the show and think, "This is just a lady in a cat suit...wtf?"

[Dr. Poison]

I think Cheetah both benefits and suffers from the Superfriends cartoon. On one hand, cuz she was there, folks just accept that she's WW's arch foe. Yet some fans watch the show and think, "This is just a lady in a cat suit...wtf?"

The Riddler and the Scarecrow were also on Challenge of the Super Friends but I've never seen anyone say that they were Batman's arch-nemeses before the Joker or Ras Al Ghul. I don't see why people think that Cheetah gets a free pass as Wonder Woman's arch-nemesis just because she was on that show. She's earned her place in more than just that one cartoon over the decades.

[SiegePerilous02]

Lex has the money and intelligence.

No, it's not tired, just depend on how do you write it well. A woman using her charisma and tricks to succeed is no different than a man use his to succeed. It even happens a lot in real life.

Cheetah has intelligence as well, just related to a different field. And she's got divine powers in addition to that.

And dude, this really isn't the forum to suggest that women (especially in this day and age) use a lot of sex appeal and charisma to get ahead, or that we need to see such depictions in Wonder Woman of all places.

Cheetah is all over the place. It's not just characterization, it's the lack of what the characters purpose has been in Diana's universe. In the GA she served as a potentially impossible villain to reform and forwarded the concept behind WW. In Post-Crisis she was set up as a sort of reverse-WW (one of many such WW villains). She was more of a physical threat, but she never really accomplished much against Diana's goal of bringing peace. She was always very small scale and never furthered an agenda that could be in opposition to Diana's purpose as a Hero.

Yeah, it's annoying as hell, her being all over the place. But I don't think she really needs to have any ideological and long term goals against Diana's mission of peace. Diana doesn't really consistently have such a mission anyway, that was more post-Crisis than either pre-Crisis or New 52. Golden Age Diana represents loving submission to feminism and equality, and Cheetah is a woman resistant to her reformation efforts. New 52 Diana doesn't really seem to represent much of anything really.

Sometimes a personal feud is all that's necessary for hero/arch villain rivalries. I can think of several match ups between male heroes where philosophical differences and long term goals didn't play a part: Spider-Man/Green Goblin, the Flash/Reverse Flash, Wolverine/Sabertooth, Aquaman/Black Manta, etc. Hell, I think the Joker has become a worse character ever since the Agent of Chaos BS started. He was better as a man who aspired to elevate crime to an art form and be the best criminal mastermind in Gotham, with trolling Batsy being a delightful bonus.

[ed2962]

The Riddler and the Scarecrow were also on Challenge of the Super Friends but I've never seen anyone say that they were Batman's arch-nemeses before the Joker or Ras Al Ghul. I don't see why people think that Cheetah gets a free pass as Wonder Woman's arch-nemesis just because she was on that show. She's earned her place in more than just that one cartoon over the decades.

Let me just say that I don't have a problem with Cheetah, but I think it may be similar to the situation with Aquaman on the Superfriends...this is was many people's first exposure to an actual supervillain of Diana's, so they think she's her arc foe. It has less to do with the pros and cons of the comic book version, just that this is what they know.

[Slowpokeking]

Cheetah has intelligence as well, just related to a different field. And she's got divine powers in addition to that.

And dude, this really isn't the forum to suggest that women (especially in this day and age) use a lot of sex appeal and charisma to get ahead, or that we need to see such depictions in Wonder Woman of all places.

Why? many real life powerful women know to use their charisma well when it's needed. Also we are mainly talk about villains, which is 100% logical for them to use such charm when necessary.

[Dr. Poison]

Let me just say that I don't have a problem with Cheetah, but I think it may be similar to the situation with Aquaman on the Superfriends...this is was many people's first exposure to an actual supervillain of Diana's, so they think she's her arc foe. It has less to do with the pros and cons of the comic book version, just that this is what they know.

I get what you're saying but Cheetah wasn't even the first Wonder Woman adversary to appear on the show. Hera appeared in the previous season and pitted the Super Friends against a host of Olympian challenges including Medusa. I would think that if someone was completely ignorant to who Wonder Woman's foes were, they would have assume it was Hera or Medusa from this episode.

[Mutant God]

I have an idea. They can have Donna be her arch-nemesis.

Ugh.

Well it could be an interesting story, an ex-sidekick who becomes the hero's greatest foe because the hero taught everything the sidekick knows and the sidekick knows all of the hero's weaknesses

The Riddler and the Scarecrow were also on Challenge of the Super Friends but I've never seen anyone say that they were Batman's arch-nemeses before the Joker or Ras Al Ghul. I don't see why people think that Cheetah gets a free pass as Wonder Woman's arch-nemesis just because she was on that show. She's earned her place in more than just that one cartoon over the decades.

No, but Riddler and Scarecrow are up there with Bat's greatest foes.

[Agent Z]

Well it could be an interesting story, an ex-sidekick who becomes the hero's greatest foe because the hero taught everything the sidekick knows and the sidekick knows all of the hero's weaknesses



No, but Riddler and Scarecrow are up there with Bat's greatest foes.

Donna isn't an ex-sidekick in this continuity. She has no relationship to Diana or any other character.