Earth-X Happened At Original Sin?

[jackolover]

As mentioned by Abe, Alex Ross did the covers of Earth-X too, as well as the ones for Secret Wars. With the end of the Marvel Universe I do wonder if Alex Ross has some satisfaction that the whole Earth-X saga has had some effect before the 616 ends?

[CZor]

Which comic was that, because I've seen her, I just can't remember where, with Kang?

I believe the last arc of the first volume of Uncanny Avengers had Kang and his army/group of characters from other timelines....including Venom-Mayday

[resipsaloquitur]

Apparently, Alex Ross' involvement in Earth X was initially based on a joke. The story goes that Wizard Magazine challenged Ross to come up with a "Kingdom Come" treatment for Marvel, to which he responded by drawing an overweight Spider-Man. He then wondered exactly what would cause Spider-Man to become fat, leading to the story that something would have driven him into retirement. From there, the concept of the mutations came, and Ross did a further series of sketches about what Earth X would be like which Wizard published in 1998. The actual series came a year later.

[jackolover]

I believe the last arc of the first volume of Uncanny Avengers had Kang and his army/group of characters from other timelines....including Venom-Mayday

Thanks. I'll refresh my memory.

Edit. Ah yes. Kang failed and his minions, of which Venom was one, faded from existence when Kang left this time. And it's interesting in Superior Spider-Man EOSV #32, as Otto spins through Multiverses, we see Venom, and Earth-X, in the montage. A few of the Battleworlds appear in that montage and later in the comic as well.

It was interesting Kang started his plot first, before Ultron interrupted Kang with Age of Ultron, but when time altered Ultrons win to a failure, Kang continued his plot with the Apoc Twins till its eventual resolution in failure as well. The Kang/Ultron chess game continues from Heroic Age Avengers #1-6. In both cases, Ultron and Kang, Wolverines interference was the common denominator. I wonder if Kang realised this and had Logan killed? By the time of Original Sin Avengers, the Kangs had already changed their focus to Tony Stark?

[jackolover]

Just so you're aware, I think Marvel editorial was a little shy of Earth X and made a point of stressing, "Hey, that's an alternate reality and not Marvel's future." The story was intended as a "grand unified theory of Marvel" and made a point of explaining EVERYTHING. However, there were a few odd revelations:

- The Earth is really an egg for an infant Celestial. Vibranium was their food.
- Wolverine and Sabretooth came from a race of unmutated humans and were not actually mutants.
- The Asgardians were shape-shifting aliens who forgot their own origins. Odin was just an ordinary guy who shaped them with his knowledge of Norse lore.
- Nightcrawler and Belasco were the same person.
- Colossus and Mr. Sinister were the same person. (In fairness, I think this was played for laughs off their visual similarities and the fact that they'd already unified Nightcrawler and Belasco.)
- Mephisto was also an early human mutated into thinking he was the Biblical devil. All alternate universes were created by Mephisto so he could escape to new realities and avoid the last judgment.

Most of this stuff came entirely from the authors extracting stuff from actual stuff in Marvel history, but I think Marvel editorial wasn't willing to incorporate a lot of those conclusions into 616.

"Grand Unified Theory Of Marvel".

That's certainly the impression I had of Earth-X, and seeing some of this stuff eventually coming to pass just strengthens that Marvel were running off a blue print.

[resipsaloquitur]

"Grand Unified Theory Of Marvel".

That's certainly the impression I had of Earth-X, and seeing some of this stuff eventually coming to pass just strengthens that Marvel were running off a blue print.

I really don't think that it was, though--that is, Earth X wasn't intended to be some grand vision of where Marvel would go in 5, 10, or 20 years. It really just became Jim Kruger's pet project and Marvel actually seemed to distance itself from Earth X as time went on. Largely it was never referenced again, outside of the occasional cameo (Earth X Cap and Daredevil were glimpsed in Avengers Forever) or alternate reality pastiche scene. I even recall a Marvel handbook which tried to distance itself from Earth-X's continuity, explaining all the weird revelations as "Well, Mephisto was probably lying about everything."

Contrast that with DC's Kingdom Come...which was also not a blueprint for DC's future, but which proved to be some immensely popular that DC frequently referenced it in the years that followed. We kept seeing things like Wonder Woman suddenly wearing her Kingdom Come armor, or the Braintrust appear in a JLA annual, that sort of thing. At one point, I remember having a running tally of stuff from Kingdom Come that kept coming to pass, and it just kept getting longer and longer.

What you're seeing now is one of two things. Either Marvel's writers are drawing a very vague inspiration from Earth X ("Hey, Thor as a woman. Let's try that."), or else it's pure coincidence ("The Watcher going blind? I don't think anyone's thought of that.") There's nothing in current events that has made me think, hey, Earth X is coming to pass. If it were, we'd be seeing something much more concrete than what we've been seeing.

[jackolover]

I really don't think that it was, though--that is, Earth X wasn't intended to be some grand vision of where Marvel would go in 5, 10, or 20 years. It really just became Jim Kruger's pet project and Marvel actually seemed to distance itself from Earth X as time went on. Largely it was never referenced again, outside of the occasional cameo (Earth X Cap and Daredevil were glimpsed in Avengers Forever) or alternate reality pastiche scene. I even recall a Marvel handbook which tried to distance itself from Earth-X's continuity, explaining all the weird revelations as "Well, Mephisto was probably lying about everything."

Contrast that with DC's Kingdom Come...which was also not a blueprint for DC's future, but which proved to be some immensely popular that DC frequently referenced it in the years that followed. We kept seeing things like Wonder Woman suddenly wearing her Kingdom Come armor, or the Braintrust appear in a JLA annual, that sort of thing. At one point, I remember having a running tally of stuff from Kingdom Come that kept coming to pass, and it just kept getting longer and longer.

What you're seeing now is one of two things. Either Marvel's writers are drawing a very vague inspiration from Earth X ("Hey, Thor as a woman. Let's try that."), or else it's pure coincidence ("The Watcher going blind? I don't think anyone's thought of that.") There's nothing in current events that has made me think, hey, Earth X is coming to pass. If it were, we'd be seeing something much more concrete than what we've been seeing.

Thanks for that detailed insight, and I can see why I am drawing a long bow here suggesting a Marvel Blueprint.

Why do these things from Kingdom Come and Earth -X get life later, whether by coincidence or on purpose? Is it just simply that writers have read these stories and just like to use some of the ideas? In Earth -X case, quite a few of the ideas saw the light of day by and around Original Sin, so there is some suspicion of contrivance here. In Earth-X, the Watcher mentions the word "unseen" a few times that might be taken as not just that he's blind, but that someone exists by that name as well, like a clue. Don't know if Jason AARON took that story for Original Sin literally or not. Maybe he could answer that?

I also don't think the creators are taking Earth-X literally either, but just using elements that in an Alternate reality would have developed into Earth-X. In MU-616, those elements turned out differently.

[Abe]

If they are trying to refer to almost everything Marvel published - even What If ? and, more unlikely, the 80's New Universe- in this final stantd of Marvel Now, it would be a pity to forget Earth-X.

So, for the fun of it, few other similarities (not with original sin)
- The Terrigen Mists released in a bang through the air and spreading in the whole world
- a thruth telling Loki ( and a Thor Odinson )
- a Red Skull with the more powerful telepathic mutant brain
- Two Hyperions - one with kind of "post-universal" status
- No more heroic Logan - except one from alt. reality ( SW old man Logan)
- systems built by superior cosmic beings explaining superpowers - some of them "from beyond" (the Elders from the original universe) experimenting with multiverse in order to construct something else according to long long plans explaining everything

Sure some are "logical" variations on the concept of the characters and don't happen in the same way in 616 and others are not conclusive at all.

But - as Eternity-Reed said (after a great "... and I'm going to rescue our son.") in conclusion (I hope the transition with the future post SW MU will be told with such cool mix of meta-stuffs and sense of humanity !) :

"I imagine that Mar-Vell is now at the core, the first world from which even this reality of wich I am the watchman is derived. I don't know but I'd like to think this Earth, with this heroes and its struggles, is close of those realities I have looked upon. Still, this desire could be more than good old human pride. I thank my father for giving it to me. I wonder what they, whoever lives there in that core, will think of him. And I wonder, I suppose, what they think of us, of the world he comes from. What they will think of this, the Marvel Universe".

[Darthfury78]

No, she wasn't in Spiderverse.

She's still serving Kang the Conquerer as he never sent her back home.

I loved Earth-X as it show how Peter Parker would look in real time. What would had been nice to have seen was instead of The Spider-Girl who was the daughter of Mary Jane x Ben Reily. we'd get a Spider-Girl who was the daughter of Peter Parker x Felicia Hardy from her timeline. What might had been interesting to see was Betty Brant at his side as well as his daughter and alternate reality daughter as well.

[resipsaloquitur]

It's entirely possible that there's only so many stories to tell and current writers are just hitting bumps that were, coincidentally, also raised in Earth-X. Even then, a lot of the similarities being raised here are superficial. For example, Earth-X's Uatu wasn't dead, just blind. In Original Sin, Uatu was dead, then his eyes were taken. You've got the eye thing in common, but that's all.

TO put this in perspective, when Kingdom Come came out, there was a contingent of fans who screamed that it had stolen concepts from Alan Moore's unpublished Twilight of the Superheroes. The stories did bear a superficial resemblace to each other, but they weren't nearly identical. Besdies, the counteragrument was that Moore's story bore a superficial resemblace to Marvel's Squadron Supreme series. (It also heavily borrowed from the Norse Ragnarok stories.)

[Sardorim]

Which comic was that, because I've seen her, I just can't remember where, with Kang?

Uncanny Avengers.

Earth-X Venom was saved and recruited by Kang. After Kang lost he warped them away with him as he made his retreat to plan again.

So even if Earth-X is lost in Secret Wars there's always Kang to use as a reason for why Earth-X Venom lives.

[jackolover]

Uncanny Avengers.

Earth-X Venom was saved and recruited by Kang. After Kang lost he warped them away with him as he made his retreat to plan again.

So even if Earth-X is lost in Secret Wars there's always Kang to use as a reason for why Earth-X Venom lives.

Okay. I took Kangs group disappearing, as those characters returning to where Kang took them from, but he could have hung onto them himself, I suppose.

[jackolover]

If they are trying to refer to almost everything Marvel published - even What If ? and, more unlikely, the 80's New Universe- in this final stantd of Marvel Now, it would be a pity to forget Earth-X.

So, for the fun of it, few other similarities (not with original sin)
- The Terrigen Mists released in a bang through the air and spreading in the whole world
- a thruth telling Loki ( and a Thor Odinson )
- a Red Skull with the more powerful telepathic mutant brain
- Two Hyperions - one with kind of "post-universal" status
- No more heroic Logan - except one from alt. reality ( SW old man Logan)
- systems built by superior cosmic beings explaining superpowers - some of them "from beyond" (the Elders from the original universe) experimenting with multiverse in order to construct something else according to long long plans explaining everything

Sure some are "logical" variations on the concept of the characters and don't happen in the same way in 616 and others are not conclusive at all.

But - as Eternity-Reed said (after a great "... and I'm going to rescue our son.") in conclusion (I hope the transition with the future post SW MU will be told with such cool mix of meta-stuffs and sense of humanity !) :

"I imagine that Mar-Vell is now at the core, the first world from which even this reality of wich I am the watchman is derived. I don't know but I'd like to think this Earth, with this heroes and its struggles, is close of those realities I have looked upon. Still, this desire could be more than good old human pride. I thank my father for giving it to me. I wonder what they, whoever lives there in that core, will think of him. And I wonder, I suppose, what they think of us, of the world he comes from. What they will think of this, the Marvel Universe".

That was a nice set of similarities I missed. I like it.