"It is a sad irony that the X-Women don’t get more screen time...."

[Wedge Antilles]

With regards to the thread title, though, the xwomen certainly get their share of screen time. It's just the way they are portrayed, generally, comes up short.

[batalia]

I think that is what people mean when they say the women need more screen time. They mean the quality and the importance and/or impact they have in the plot. Just easy way of saying it.

I'm really fearful that the mistreatment is going to continue in XMA and beyond. I got new reinvigorated interest in the franchise with FC and I got the sense that Fox was going to use that as a in universe reboot which they are but I don't know how much fresh ideas Singer can break. If you are doing reboot, It doesn't make sense to go back to the place where the franchise started 14 years ago. Singer has major weakness when it comes to the x-women. I was looking forward to seeing recast Storm, Jean, Cyclops who are handled and given fair shake but with Singer back and Hugh Jackman not going anywhere plus the huge focus and push Channing Tatums' Gambit is about to get, I'm thinking that the trio may get screwed again.

[PwrdOn]

It's hard to blame the writing for this, every single one of the actresses cast in those roles made it painfully obvious in their performances that couldn't care less about the characters they were playing and had never opened a comic in their lives. When you have people there who are only in it for the paycheck, it's hard to really give them more screen time or a bigger role in the narrative. Whatever you want to say about Jackman hogging all the spotlight, at least he really seemed to love playing Wolverine and it definitely showed through in his performance. That's not to say that Janssen, Berry, or Paquin aren't talented, but they clearly didn't give a shit about X-Men and that was blatantly obvious on screen.

By the way this isn't an indictment of the actresses involved either, you'd be seriously hard pressed to find too many women in Hollywood who are really passionate about superheroes. But given who you have cast, you give more time to the people that will make the film more entertaining and that's what the X-Men films did.

[batalia]

Singer banned comics on set. He didn't want anyone to read it. I don't know if he ever read one or just watch the cartoons. The question is have the writers and Singer ever read the comics. Halle Berry fight for Storm to get more especially in X3. I disagree with you 100% that is not the writing or whoever did the casting at fault. Even if you get a miscast if the writing was there, they would have been better. Is the job of the actor to bring the script to life and if there is not any life there to begin with, they can't be blamed. There is not much they can do. Of course Hugh is loving playing Wolverine, he gets all the good material and the spot light. This made his career. What actor wouldn't love and enjoy that.

[remydat]

I am not really sure how it could be said that women didn't get a fair shake in the first 3 movies. I never heard much of that criticism at the time those movies came it. The criticism was moreso that the characters in the movies diverged from those in the comics but that does not equate to women not getting a fair shake. It seems the fact that the movie characters were not identical to their comic book counterparts has somehow morphed into women being treated unfairly which is silly to me.

Women got plenty of shine in the first 3 movies. Shit, the 3rd movie was basically the Wolverine and Jean Grey Dark Phoenix Saga. That movie sucked because the script was terrible and not because women somehow were treated unfairly.

[ChronoRogue]

I am not really sure how it could be said that women didn't get a fair shake in the first 3 movies. I never heard much of that criticism at the time those movies came it. The criticism was moreso that the characters in the movies diverged from those in the comics but that does not equate to women not getting a fair shake. It seems the fact that the movie characters were not identical to their comic book counterparts has somehow morphed into women being treated unfairly which is silly to me.

Women got plenty of shine in the first 3 movies. Shit, the 3rd movie was basically the Wolverine and Jean Grey Dark Phoenix Saga. That movie sucked because the script was terrible and not because women somehow were treated unfairly.

It's not really that woman specifically didn't get a fair shake. It's that everyone besides Wolverine didn't. It's just sad since of all franchises, it should be the women out there kicking on the big screen and in the X-films they really haven't.

And really, what did the woman do to make them shine? Throw a bit of lightening and take a cure? They were plot devices and background characters. They didn't shine. Even Jean, who got the most focus, just served as a love interest and tragic figure for Logan's character development. As a character, Jean didn't really do much herself.

[ariwl1]

It's not really that woman specifically didn't get a fair shake. It's that everyone besides Wolverine didn't.

Pretty much this. The majority of the characters were there to check off the big X names. Logan and to an extent Magneto were the only ones they really got right. Thing is Logan got it really right. If he hadn't these movies probably wouldn't have gone on so long.

[remydat]

It's not really that woman specifically didn't get a fair shake. It's that everyone besides Wolverine didn't. It's just sad since of all franchises, it should be the women out there kicking on the big screen and in the X-films they really haven't.

And really, what did the woman do to make them shine? Throw a bit of lightening and take a cure? They were plot devices and background characters. They didn't shine. Even Jean, who got the most focus, just served as a love interest and tragic figure for Logan's character development. As a character, Jean didn't really do much herself.

I know that gets said a lot but not sure I agree. Wolverine certainly was the focus but I still think the other characters had their moments. The whole first movie had a huge plot point around Rogue and her absorption powers. Storm and Jean were just as instrumental in saving Rogue as Wolverine was. The second movie also had a lot of moments for the women and Jean Grey is the one who makes the big sacrifice at the end and saves the day presumably dying in the process. She was the big hero at the end not Wolverine.

The whole 3rd movie was then largely about Jean. She was not just a love interest. The only person that got screwed in that Love Triangle was Cyke. Jean had her own storyline that was building from the first 2 movies.

[remydat]

Pretty much this. The majority of the characters were there to check off the big X names. Logan and to an extent Magneto were the only ones they really got right. Thing is Logan got it really right. If he hadn't these movies probably wouldn't have gone on so long.

What's more in character than Jean Grey throwing up a telekinetic wall to save all the other X-men from being drowned and then using her powers to start the X-Jet allowing the rest of her team escape and presumably dying in the process?

That scene had absolutely fuck all to do with Wolverine and everything to do with showing the extreme sacrifice of Jean Grey which then set up the Phoenix storyline in the 3rd movie.

[ChronoRogue]

I know that gets said a lot but not sure I agree. Wolverine certainly was the focus but I still think the other characters had their moments. The whole first movie had a huge plot point around Rogue and her absorption powers. Storm and Jean were just as instrumental in saving Rogue as Wolverine was. The second movie also had a lot of moments for the women and Jean Grey is the one who makes the big sacrifice at the end and saves the day presumably dying in the process. She was the big hero at the end not Wolverine.

Rogue as a damsel in distress is her shining in the films... how? She got one cool moment in X2 and that was it for the entire franchise.

Storm got a variety of flashy effects, but honestly she was not much better in character. X3 was probably the best one and that's because the actress had to throw tantrum to get any significant screentime. How is that not evidence that the character was getting shafted?

Same with Jean. One nice scene in a 2hr movie when it's supposed to be about the entire team? It's not like there wasn't enough time. And again, the main motivation was development for Logan. It wasn't about Jean being a hero. The overtone ruins it for me.

The whole 3rd movie was then largely about Jean. She was not just a love interest. The only person that got screwed in that Love Triangle was Cyke. Jean had her own storyline that was building from the first 2 movies.

Jean was an antagonist. Not even a entertaining one, like she was in DPS, just a mute maniac that suddenly joins up with Magneto for no reason. Can you honestly not see how a Jean fan would not be happy with that?

[remydat]

Rogue as a damsel in distress is her shining in the films... how? She got one cool moment in X2 and that was it for the entire franchise.

Storm got a variety of flashy effects, but honestly she was not much better in character. X3 was probably the best one and that's because the actress had to throw tantrum to get any significant screentime. How is that not evidence that the character was getting shafted?

Same with Jean. One nice scene in a 2hr movie when it's supposed to be about the entire team? It's not like there wasn't enough time. And again, the main motivation was development for Logan. It wasn't about Jean being a hero. The overtone ruins it for me.

Jean was an antagonist. Not even a entertaining one, like she was in DPS, just a mute maniac that suddenly joins up with Magneto for no reason. Can you honestly not see how a Jean fan would not be happy with that?

Rogue's main storyline was her coming to terms with her absorption powers which is also one of the main storylines in the comics. There was plenty of time spent on that. If you didn't like that particular storyline or preferred to see her with Ms Marvel powers, that is your prerogative but doesn't mean the character didn't get a focus. It just means she got a focus you didn't particularly care for.

As for Storm, I don't recall any tantrum thrown. I recall Berry saying she wanted more screen time which doesn't prove anything except that in an ensemble movie, an actress or actor might want more for their character. Could Storm have gotten more screen time. Sure. Does that prove she was treated unfairly as a character nope.

Finally, Jean. I have never seen a character whose sole purpose is to serve another character be written basically as the hero who sacrifices herself to save the day in the climatic scene of a movie. Can you provide another example of this in fiction of any kind? And whether a Jean fan is happy or not is irrelevant. The question was whether she got a fair shake. Being the hero of the 2nd movie at the end and then having a whole 3rd movie devoted to you going apeshit crazy is plenty of focus. The fact it was poorly executed doesn't change the fact she had a storyline in her own right.

So you seem to be confusing the issue here. The question is not whether you liked the story arc chosen for a character or whether the storyline was done well. The question is whether the women got a raw deal. I don't think they did.

[ChronoRogue]

Rogue's main storyline was her coming to terms with her absorption powers which is also one of the main storylines in the comics. There was plenty of time spent on that. If you didn't like that particular storyline or preferred to see her with Ms Marvel powers, that is your prerogative but doesn't mean the character didn't get a focus. It just means she got a focus you didn't particularly care for.

Rogue main storyline is dealing with her guilt and unintentional absorption of Carol Danvers. Rogue has always been a tragic figure, but she was also always an active character. Rogue got a focus in X1 but she drifted off after that. X2 carried a subplot in but she did nothing noteworthy and X3 cultimated in getting rid of her powers. The thread asks if the films failed the characters and you said this film showed the X-woman shining. Rogue did not shine and she did not get a focus. Objectively she is not a strong character.

As for Storm, I don't recall any tantrum thrown. I recall Storm saying she wanted more screen which doesn't prove anything except that in an ensemble movie, an actress or actor might want more for their character.

Halle Berry did, you can google it. It doesn't prove anything, but definitely suggest perhaps some of the actors being frustrated with the their portrayals or roles. Actually speaking of that, Paquin even said she wished she could play a more active Rogue.

Finally, Jean. I have never seen a character whose sole purpose is to serve another character be written basically as the hero who sacrifices herself to save the day in the climatic scene of a movie. Can you provide another example of this in fiction of any kind? And whether a Jean fan is happy or not is irrelevant. The question was whether she got a fair shake. Being the hero of the 2nd movie at the end and then having a whole 3rd movie devoted to you going apeshit crazy is plenty of focus. The fact it was poorly executed doesn't change the fact she had a storyline in her own right.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...dIntoTheFridge

It's the same basic principle.

And of course the fans being happy is important. It's their input that quantifies whether the X-woman are being treated fair or not in the first place. It's why we have this thread in the first place. It's been mentioned again and again that people are dissatisfied with their portrayal in the films. Obviously not enough to directly impact sales, since Wolverine enough will sell tickets, but enough were it receives criticisms as this article points out.

And no, I don't see how being an antagonist and getting one nice scene in X2 is a fair shake compared to what Wolverine got.

So you seem to be confusing the issue here. The question is not whether you liked the story arc chosen for a character or whether the storyline was done well. The question is whether the women got a raw deal. I don't think they did.

I'm not just basing it on whether or not I liked the storyline or writing. Though that certainly does influence my view point (as it should). Why do you think I'm pointing out instances where they actually mattered the plot? They did get a raw deal.

[Ambaryerno]

Y'know, I just rewatched X1 and X2 Monday and Tuesday, and Storm actually got a few pretty significant things to do, especially in X2. She had the tornado dogfight, and basically saved the day by preventing Xavier from killing all the humans after Mags and Mystique pulled their double-cross in Stryker's Cerebro. There were also quite a few places that she got to use her powers creatively rather than outright shows of force.

[Park Slope Pixie]

Singer banned comics on set. He didn't want anyone to read it.

Any confirm as to whether there were plenty of ALLBOY or Bad Puppy magazines on set?

LOL, who am I kidding? Singer's a hack. Worse than a hack, he's absolutely content to shill the highest-sheen of corporate product for the benefit of stockholders. Abel Ferrera or Gregg Araki would have worked the hell out of this moribund franchise.

[remydat]

Rogue main storyline is dealing with her guilt and unintentional absorption of Carol Danvers. Rogue has always been a tragic figure, but she was also always an active character. Rogue got a focus in X1 but she drifted off after that. X2 carried a subplot in but she did nothing noteworthy and X3 cultimated in getting rid of her powers. The thread asks if the films failed the characters and you said this film showed the X-woman shining. Rogue did not shine and she did not get a focus. Objectively she is not a strong character.

Halle Berry did, you can google it. It doesn't prove anything, but definitely suggest perhaps some of the actors being frustrated with the their portrayals or roles. Actually speaking of that, Paquin even said she wished she could play a more active Rogue.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...dIntoTheFridge

It's the same basic principle.

And of course the fans being happy is important. It's their input that quantifies whether the X-woman are being treated fair or not in the first place. It's why we have this thread in the first place. It's been mentioned again and again that people are dissatisfied with their portrayal in the films. Obviously not enough to directly impact sales, since Wolverine enough will sell tickets, but enough were it receives criticisms as this article points out.

And no, I don't see how being an antagonist and getting one nice scene in X2 is a fair shake compared to what Wolverine got.

I'm not just basing it on whether or not I liked the storyline or writing. Though that certainly does influence my view point (as it should). Why do you think I'm pointing out instances where they actually mattered the plot? They did get a raw deal.

No Rogue had issues due to Cody and Rogue has also had issues due to not being able to be intimate with Gambit. The Carol Danvers thing is just the most visible example of her general angst over not being able to touch people which has manifested itself in many different forms. That is precisely what the movie showed. And by shine, I meant they got focus not they got to do cool things with their powers. Rogue's focus was on the one thing the comics have always heavily focused on. What were you expecting? That an Avenger appear in a film when Fox didn't have the rights to the Avengers?

You said she threw a tantrum. I am saying I recall no tantrum. I recall a request. Tantrum puts a spin on it that I don't think is accurate but if you have evidence of a tantrum rather than a request then provide it.

An how can you fridge someone by making them the hero at the end of the movie and then having them alive and one of the main characters in the sequel? You have basically twisted the definition of the word beyond all meaning. Jean Grey was not fridged. She willingly chose to sacrifice herself and save her friends which directly lead to her becoming the Dark Phoenix in the 3rd movie. Are you confused by the fact that a character isn't suppose to actually come back if they have been fridged?

At any rate, we are not going to agree. It just seems you are just interpreting everything in a manner to fit the narrative you have decided on.