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Thread: Naruto

  1. #76
    Dorky Person Charmed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazard View Post
    Kishimoto, like other mangaka, realizes the power of ship-tease. He keeps throwing bones at pairings for fan reaction.

    He's not quite a master of it, but he does it well given the reactions.
    He's earning his master status for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    It's not really love, but her wanting guys she finds attractive fighting for her Affection.

    Sakura is just a fucking idiot.
    All of this is just teenage, hormonal puppy love anyway.
    The only person who seems to be genuinely in love with someone is Hinata and even then I don't believe it.

    The "love" in this series (between the teens) is either one-sided, stupid, or both.

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  2. #77
    Astonishing Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charmed View Post
    He's earning his master status for sure.



    All of this is just teenage, hormonal puppy love anyway.
    The only person who seems to be genuinely in love with someone is Hinata and even then I don't believe it.

    The "love" in this series (between the teens) is either one-sided, stupid, or both.
    Oh I believe Hinata is truly in love with Naruto. While Naruto hasn't really had the time to worry about love with all this shit hitting the fan.

    I call Sakura an idiot not only due to her loving Sasuke, but just in her actions in general.

  3. #78
    Dorky Person Charmed's Avatar
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    As a shounen hero I don't think Naruto will ever understand the word love. Though if he does come to understand it, he'll realize that he's destined to be with Sasuke

    As someone who likes Sakura I can agree that she makes stupid decisions. But I find it hard to be mad at a character who is written terribly by an author who says he's no good with female leads. It would have been better if she died during the timeskip. That way Naruto can use more angst to fuel his mission to get Sasuke back and whatever the hell else this manga is about at this point. Plus, Kishi wouldn't be saddled with writing a character he doesn't know how to write.

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  4. #79
    Astonishing Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charmed View Post
    As a shounen hero I don't think Naruto will ever understand the word love. Though if he does come to understand it, he'll realize that he's destined to be with Sasuke

    As someone who likes Sakura I can agree that she makes stupid decisions. But I find it hard to be mad at a character who is written terribly by an author who says he's no good with female leads. It would have been better if she died during the timeskip. That way Naruto can use more angst to fuel his mission to get Sasuke back and whatever the hell else this manga is about at this point. Plus, Kishi wouldn't be saddled with writing a character he doesn't know how to write.
    She is also an abusive bitch >_>. Hinata would be a pretty cool lead, IF Kishi developed her over time and had her get a bit stronger, not only in power but also in confidence and willpower.

  5. #80
    Dorky Person Charmed's Avatar
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    I wouldn't go as far to say that personally, but they do crank tsundere up-to-eleven with her. Why write her well when you can just have her punch Naruto? Funny, amirite?

    "You're dead!"- Soldier
    "You first"- Lightning, Final Fantasy XIII

    "Yes, boo, cause this is Calvin Klein and I don't play that ****" - Tanisha

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  6. #81
    Extraordinary Member The Shape's Avatar
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    I know where she came from and why she needs an army.

    The former:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desire_...ssful_State.29

    The latter:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_m...vas_and_Asuras

    The hint:

    Gedo Mazo(Kaguya) was outer path summoning along with the King of Hell, which hints the two have a connection. Both can even rip out souls. The King of Hell happens to be based on a Deva.

    http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/King_of_Hell#Influences

    Rikudou Sennin also translates into Six Realm Sage.

  7. #82
    Truth and Conviction Hazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charmed View Post
    The "love" in this series (between the teens) is either one-sided, stupid, or both.
    Well, yeah, teenagers.

    That said, contrary to the majority in the thread, I'm going to say Sakura is a well-written character. She's not some sort of super huge badass who chews bubblegum and what not but that doesn't make her a bad character.
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  8. #83
    Astonishing Member Cody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazard View Post
    Well, yeah, teenagers.

    That said, contrary to the majority in the thread, I'm going to say Sakura is a well-written character. She's not some sort of super huge badass who chews bubblegum and what not but that doesn't make her a bad character.
    No what makes her a bad character is her lack of character development, her constant beating on Naruto, shitting on him despite all that he has done and tries to do for her, still fawning over Sasuke despite the fact that he has always treated her like garbage, tried to kill her, vowed to destroy the village, tried to kill Kakashi, tried to kill Naruto, killing several samurai, attempting to murder Gara(another friend of hers), and trying to coerce her into killing someone she doesn't even know.

    That and she is usually in the way in all of their fights.

  9. #84
    Truth and Conviction Hazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    No what makes her a bad character is her lack of character development, her constant beating on Naruto, shitting on him despite all that he has done and tries to do for her, still fawning over Sasuke despite the fact that he has always treated her like garbage, tried to kill her, vowed to destroy the village, tried to kill Kakashi, tried to kill Naruto, killing several samurai, attempting to murder Gara(another friend of hers), and trying to coerce her into killing someone she doesn't even know.
    Okay I'm going to go for parts.

    Sakura doesn't beat Naruto. It may have happened once or twice in the early days of the manga, but it's not even remotely common. It may happen in the anime. Not sure, but not in the manga. Karin beats Suigetsu and that's really the only slapstick violence I can think of in Naruto.

    As for character development, she has it. In spades. You just have to understand when it comes to character development, Kishimoto works with failure. Everyone in Naruto gets their character developed through failure, always where it counts the most. It's a thing he does. Proud failures and all that. Just look at Sasuke for a pretty brutal failure list.

    Now, Sakura's relationship with Sasuke is a bit harder to understand, but it's not really a bad thing. You just need to look at the serious side of the manga and not the "joke" parts that are mostly for comedy and shipping tease.

    Sakura starts with a huge crush on the guy. Over the first part of Naruto, she gets a chance to see other sides of him. She sees him and Naruto childishly compete. She sees him dead once and learns how serious the ninja world is. She flat out called him a coward and saw him rise to the occasion and has also seen him be fiercely protective of her to lethal degrees under CS influence.

    By the end of part one, Sasuke and Naruto have changed from guys she saw every day and had some vague notions about to people she really, really cares for, Team 7. They are her team and even a type of family. Her feelings to Sasuke have, in a way, matured a great deal, since she has something beyond an idealized image to base them on.

    And that's really the problem. That's harder to let go. Both Sakura and Naruto fully believe they can get back Sasuke and everything will be back to how it was before. Their efforts during the first half of part 2 are focused on that.

    Then Sasuke goes Indra Nuts and kills people and other stuff. While Naruto struggled to come up with a way to deal with the situation in a way that won't betray his newly found ideals, Sakura decides to take on the entire burden by herself and kill Sasuke.

    It's not the smartest decision, but her thought process is perfectly understandable. Sasuke is Team 7's responsibility. She will deal with him and protect the others from the pain of killing him.

    She can't do it and it's a beautiful moment.

    In spite of everything that has happened, she still cares about him. She has no illusions about what he has done but she can't help but think back on how things were. Sakura is, tragically, human and that's the point with her character.She may have memorized all the ninja rules when she was 12 but she really can't shut down her feelings.

    Even now when Sasuke is on the same side as them, the scene with Sai is pretty telling. The guy goes "Can we trust him?"

    Sakura tells him she is really happy Sasuke is on their side and everything.

    Sai monologue points out he knows she is lying.

    Because she knows, just like Naruto knows, that Sasuke is an ally of circumstance and once the dust settles fines may not be fine between them. However, Sakura, in true human fashion, wants to believe, if only for a little while.
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  10. #85
    Astonishing Member Cody's Avatar
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    So, you'r enot going to address her lack of respect towards Naruto despite all that he does for her and others? Or the fact that she is usually in the way in the majority of the fights?

  11. #86
    Truth and Conviction Hazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    So, you'r enot going to address her lack of respect towards Naruto despite all that he does for her and others? Or the fact that she is usually in the way in the majority of the fights?
    What lack of respect?

    She doesn't respect him at the beginning because, well, he's the dead last and really annoying. Starting from the Forest of Death she admits he's better than her and she's all "well, they think he doesn't have a chance but we know better" during the the chuunin exams and is really happy for him after Pain.

    As for her fights, well, personally fight performances have little to do with character but whatever.

    Team 7 vs Team Zabuza: Both times had her protect their client.
    Status: Not in the way

    Chuunin Exams: Helps the unconscious Naruto and Sasuke. Takes them to a safe place and puts traps all around. Manages to buy enough time against the Sound Team.
    Status: Helpful.

    Vs Gaara: Got beaten and captured by the guy. Then again, so did Sasuke but whatever.
    Status: Minimal liability.

    Chiyo and Sakura vs Sasori: Won and defeated and member of the Akatsuki. Managed to save Kankuro's life and made an antidote against his poison.
    Status: Really useful.

    Team 7 vs Team Orochimaru: A berserk Naruto attacked her and infected her with his evil chakra, thus greatly reducing her battle potential.
    Status: Taken out by not so friendly fire.

    vs Pain: Takes out one of his summons and helps evacuate the civillians.
    Status: Minimally helpful.

    vs Sasuke: Tries to kill him but is unable to and is nearly killed by him instead. Probably one of the few times she's really in the way, but that was the point of that fight.
    Status: Emotionally compromised.

    vs Zetsu: Roots him out and smashes him.
    Status: Helpful.

    vs Seven Swordsmen: Apparently it was a really cool fight that we didn't get to see.
    Status: Supposedly helpful?

    vs Juubi Drones: Smashes several of them and Summons Katsuyu to help heal the Shinobi Alliance.
    Status: Pretty useful.

    vs Juudara: Outclassed.
    Status: Dead weight.

    vs Kaguya: Much like Kakashi, she has not place in the fight, but at least she gets to serve as a chakra battery for Obito.
    Status: Conditionally useful.

    That's all I can think of so far. Not really what I'd call useless or in the way.

    Edit: Oh and she kept Naruto's heart beating for a while during the Juudara thing to keep him alive.
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  12. #87
    Astonishing Member Cody's Avatar
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    Then idk. I guess I mostly based my opinion on what I seen from the anime. I have seen so much of both the manga and the anime that it is difficult to remember what was filler and what wasn't. I mean it isn't like Fairy Tail where the fillers are so badly written with characters being so oc that it is easy to tell what's filler and what isn't. With Naruto? Well a good chunks of filler is bad, but nowhere near so bad that it is that easy to know what is and what isn't filler. Plus the amount of filler is so numerous that it gets confusing. It's worse than the Dragonball series when it comes to that type of thing.
    Last edited by Cody; 07-16-2014 at 11:22 AM.

  13. #88
    Truth and Conviction Hazard's Avatar
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    The majority of the Naruto anime is pretty much fillers.

    Literally over a hundred filler eps.

    Some are okay. Some do really stupid stuff like "all the moms stayed in Konoha during the war!"
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  14. #89
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    While every Naruto character has their faults, it seems as though Sakura has more than the average character. While, it does make her more "human" in a sense, compared to Naruto and Sasuke, she seems to fudge up and always get saved by either Naruto, Sasuke, or Kakashi. This is why I love her battle with Sasori. Sure, Chiyo saved her a couple of times, but she pulled her weight very well. I find she shines a lot more when her fellow leads aren't in the picture. Once they are? Poor thing.

    I always thought the start of Shippuden was great for her. Then when Sasuke came back into the picture the focus on her was practically non-existant (and she regressed a bit), until the current arc.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________________

    Which brings me to another point...

    Over the course of the first series we all know that Sakura fell in wuv with Sasuke. But what I want to know is WHY she loves him? I mean, at her age, and given her very emotional demeanor, I can see why she'd use the word love (when I honestly think it's just puppy love), what caused her to cry and scream before Sasuke left Konoha? I can't for the life of me recall him saying anything remotely nice to her face, or even acting as though he regarded her as a close friend. A teammate who he'd do anything to protect? Sure. But someone that she loves so much that she's practically crying for him not to go? He must be really good looking.

    That's almost as hard to swallow as Gaara and Naruto becoming friends after the timeskip. I get that Naruto helped Gaara with talk-no-jutsu, but friends? How many conversations have the two even had? Meh I'm sorry to vent all my issues with this manga to you guys. I really do like it, but certain things just grind the ol' gears.

    ...On the bright side we're getting some interesting discussions

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    "Yes, boo, cause this is Calvin Klein and I don't play that ****" - Tanisha

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  15. #90
    Truth and Conviction Hazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charmed View Post
    While every Naruto character has their faults, it seems as though Sakura has more than the average character. While, it does make her more "human" in a sense, compared to Naruto and Sasuke, she seems to fudge up and always get saved by either Naruto, Sasuke, or Kakashi. This is why I love her battle with Sasori. Sure, Chiyo saved her a couple of times, but she pulled her weight very well. I find she shines a lot more when her fellow leads aren't in the picture. Once they are? Poor thing.

    I always thought the start of Shippuden was great for her. Then when Sasuke came back into the picture the focus on her was practically non-existant (and she regressed a bit), until the current arc.
    Sakura has lots of flaws because that's her character type. She's the human one. Kishimoto has noted it once. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, her character development through the entire manga is pretty solid.

    As for her getting saved, she's far from being the only one. Naruto and Sasuke have gotten saved a bunch of times.

    I mean, Sakura's gotten saved, like what? Once in the Gaara fight, once in the Sasuke fight, and few times during the war arc against an enemy beyond everyone else but the two demi-gods.

    That's pretty much it.

    The problem is Kishimoto doesn't pull punches. That's not a writing problem, but it messes with the reader's expectations. As much as Naruto is a Shounen Jump manga, wanting things really bad is never enough to win. The Rescue Sasuke arc is testament to that.

    People expect characters to grow in a certain way and Kishimoto rarely goes along with those expectations.

    For example, many people have the idea that Sakura "got left behind" but the fact is even in the databooks her "Latent Potential" score was never as high as that of Naruto and Sasuke (Amusingly enough the only character with a Latent Potential as high as those two is Haku). It's just that since she's part of the trio the expectation that she "should be as strong as them" exists.

    Over the course of the first series we all know that Sakura fell in wuv with Sasuke. But what I want to know is WHY she loves him? I mean, at her age, and given her very emotional demeanor, I can see why she'd use the word love (when I honestly think it's just puppy love), what caused her to cry and scream before Sasuke left Konoha? I can't for the life of me recall him saying anything remotely nice to her face, or even acting as though he regarded her as a close friend. A teammate who he'd do anything to protect? Sure. But someone that she loves so much that she's practically crying for him not to go? He must be really good looking.

    That's almost as hard to swallow as Gaara and Naruto becoming friends after the timeskip. I get that Naruto helped Gaara with talk-no-jutsu, but friends? How many conversations have the two even had? Meh I'm sorry to vent all my issues with this manga to you guys. I really do like it, but certain things just grind the ol' gears.

    ...On the bright side we're getting some interesting discussions
    This is a combination of two things or maybe three.

    Naruto, Sakura and Sasuke go through a lot of shit together. Life and death situations. That makes people bond like nothing else. These guys have saved each other's butts as least once each.

    Then there's other little moments. Even during the Bell test there is a scene where Sakura tells Sasuke, "Hey, let's quit. There's always another chance. This guy is too strong."

    Sasuke flat out refuses her and Sakura goes, "Oh the whole 'someone I have to kill' DOES actually matter of lot to him". Not a true love scene even remotely but Sakura does begin to understand him a bit more here.

    Now another factor enters here, we don't see the downtime. Kishimoto is rushed by his editors sometimes and its shows in the time between missions. Ninja in Naruto don't go right from one mission to the next. There is downtime. There are times when they just hang around in the village.

    The "Road to Ninja" oneshot is one of the few times Kishimoto got a chance to draw these guys bonding as friends, but that's happening behind the scenes most of the time.

    In between the Bell Test and the Zabuza arc, the team goes through many D rank missions. And after that, the team also goes through more missions enough for Sakura to go "Well, these two have been awkward lately".

    It's there but not there; so you just kind of have to nod along and go "yeah, there's totally bonding in between chapters".

    Gaara and Naruto are much easier to explain.

    They are really lonely people that understand each other like very few people are able to. Sometimes you don't need more than that.
    Last edited by Hazard; 07-17-2014 at 09:31 AM.
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