Really tired of Darkseid

[GrandKaiser]

He could be used more (though I have no idea how he's been used or not in the New 52).

He kicked ass in the New 52. There was a whole arc with him in JLA featuring him battling Stargirl.

[FanboyStranger]

Do you not like Gotham by Midnight? I'm enjoying how they use The Spectre there.

I like the idea of GbM more than the actual book. It's an interesting book, but not really a good one yet. To be frank, I think that it's kinda coasting on Ben Templesmith's art, so when he takes a few issues off-- which he's doing soon-- I wonder how it's going to be recieved. But there's a good chance that Fawkes can pull it all together at some point, so I keep reading it. (I did the same with Constantine, and while the second year was a lot better than the first, it never really came together for me.)

[FanboyStranger]

I think it has to be noted that Morrison's Darkseid isn't a character -- he's a force. the Ultimate Antagonist. The Dragon.

He is Evil. Or, more accurate, Darkseid Is.

Morrison did a lot of very fun, grandiose, powerful things with his "Darkseid", but his goals and his work were very different from the complex and nuanced work that Kirby did.

Kirby's Darkseid was a person. Morrison's Darkseid was not.

That's actually part of my problem with Morrison's Darkseid-- I don't see Darkseid as the god of evil. I see Darkseid as the god of control. His actions are predominantly evil, but I don't think he is an embodiment of evil so much as an embodiment of complete control, the ultimate authoritarian to the extent that all existence must be subject to his will. His evil is self-interest, which can be a type of evil, but not necessarily in a total sense or even in a supernatural bogeyman sense. He is not Satan or other representations of "total evil. He is representative of a specific type of evil, not the broader concept. I think that's the nuance that Morrison misses-- or at least downplays-- with Darkseid, but as we've been arguing in this, it's those nuances that make Darkseid interesting.

When I hear "Darkseid Is"-- which is a Morrison idea that I think is brilliant, by the way-- I don't think "Darkseid Is Evil!" I think "Darkseid Is everything!" That is his ultimate ambition. To be everything in the universe, to have everything in his image, from your slightest stray thought to the Source itself.

[Billy Batson]

No no no, Darkseid is the god of chaos :^)

[FanboyStranger]

No no no, Darkseid is the god of chaos :^)

Haha. I remember that thread.

[Deniz Camp]

That's actually part of my problem with Morrison's Darkseid-- I don't see Darkseid as the god of evil. I see Darkseid as the god of control. His actions are predominantly evil, but I don't think he is an embodiment of evil so much as an embodiment of complete control, the ultimate authoritarian to the extent that all existence must be subject to his will. His evil is self-interest, which can be a type of evil, but not necessarily in a total sense or even in a supernatural bogeyman sense. He is not Satan or other representations of "total evil. He is representative of a specific type of evil, not the broader concept. I think that's the nuance that Morrison misses-- or at least downplays-- with Darkseid, but as we've been arguing in this, it's those nuances that make Darkseid interesting.

When I hear "Darkseid Is"-- which is a Morrison idea that I think is brilliant, by the way-- I don't think "Darkseid Is Evil!" I think "Darkseid Is everything!" That is his ultimate ambition. To be everything in the universe, to have everything in his image, from your slightest stray thought to the Source itself.

You're preaching to the choir, sir. I quite enjoyed Morrison's Darkseid for what it was, but what it was was a good bit less specific and less individually compelling than what he could be.

I think it's as good a take as we can reasonably expect in a DCU wide tale, because superheroes were not generally built to explore complicated concepts of good and evil. That's what makes the New Gods so different, and so incompatible with the DCU proper. That is (part of) why they haven't been integrated more fully into the universe; the things that made them work just don't really work in the superhero context. They'll never be compelling solo-acts if they don't have access to their strongest attributes.