Really tired of Darkseid

[nopunin10did]

I've got a bit of Darkseid-exhaustion.

There's far too much in the way of big events that somehow gets linked to Darkseid and Apokolips, and he's really not that interesting a character. His troupe of assistants are equally ridiculous--if they weren't all so grotesque, you could probably have them put on mustaches and tie ladies to train tracks.

I feel like DC needs some much more interesting villains for Superman and the JL to fight. Batman has quite the rogues' gallery, and Batman Eternal has definitely shown how a big event can create a big event using multiple villains (including those lesser known).

But after reading the initial 2011 Justice League storyline, then the Earth-2 origin storyline, and now the Earth-2 World's End... it's just exhausting.

[Broddie]

he's really not that interesting a character. His troupe of assistants are equally ridiculous--if they weren't all so grotesque, you could probably have them put on mustaches and tie ladies to train tracks.

Someone has clearly never read Jack Kirby's Fourth World epic.

[K. Jones]

Yeah he is that interesting. The situation is this:

I will never be sick of Darkseid.

I will always be sick of poorly executed Darkseid stories. That posturing, brawling, mewling space tyrant in World's End is patently NOT Darkseid. Yeah blah blah blah he's an emanation, a spectrum fractured variant, yadda yadda. Darkseid doesn't posture and brawl and grit his teeth in barely-contained rage. He's not Kalibakseid. His hate is not an angry hate. It is a cold, eternal hate.

There have been maybe three or four panels in all of New 52 Darkseid that have reminded me of good and proper Darkseid. Usually of him just standing there stoic like a monolith with his arms behind his back. The rest of the time he and Nu-Apokolips are literally interchangeable with Mongul and War World.

[Double 0]

I'm sick of lame portrayals of the Fourth World. Seriously, use them with some nuance; make them actually FEEL mythological, or don't use them at all.

And yes, I primarily mean Johns on this one. And World's End. And pretty much most portrayals of the 4th world besides from a very specific list of writers.

[JBatmanFan05]

I absolutely love Darkseid and the Fourth World, but I do think they're very often poorly or under executed.

Morrison is like the only writer who uses them correctly and captures they're epic nature and their Kirbyness. (and Morrison infuses a little of his Lovecraftian love into them)

I've no doubt Final Crisis will be the last great Fourth World story, the last great Darkseid tale.

[Double 0]

I absolutely love Darkseid and the Fourth World, but I do think they're very often poorly or under executed.

Morrison is like the only writer who uses them correctly and captures they're epic nature and their Kirbyness.

Yep! Final Crisis is a controversial event, but to me, that and Seven Soldiers were the last times Darkseid and Apokolips truly felt like how they should be. Not Mongul++ like guys like Loeb and Johns write him.

[JBatmanFan05]

Not Mongul++ like guys like Loeb and Johns write him.

Really great description of what is wrong with Darkseid. Bravo.

[nopunin10did]

I absolutely love Darkseid and the Fourth World, but I do think they're very often poorly or under executed.

Morrison is like the only writer who uses them correctly and captures they're epic nature and their Kirbyness. (and Morrison infuses a little of his Lovecraftian love into them)

I've no doubt Final Crisis will be the last great Fourth World story, the last great Darkseid tale.

I could see this. I did enjoy Final Crisis, Darkseid included, although it definitely suffers from Morrison's usual problem of leaving too many details out. His works always feel like they're missing pages, and that works really well for some stories and not so well for others.

I think having the Apokolips characters all bring their destruction through infiltration, rather than constant yelling and fire, made a difference.

[LoneNecromancer]

I've got a bit of Darkseid-exhaustion.

There's far too much in the way of big events that somehow gets linked to Darkseid and Apokolips, and he's really not that interesting a character. His troupe of assistants are equally ridiculous--if they weren't all so grotesque, you could probably have them put on mustaches and tie ladies to train tracks.

[JBatmanFan05]

I could see this. I did enjoy Final Crisis, Darkseid included, although it definitely suffers from Morrison's usual problem of leaving too many details out. His works always feel like they're missing pages, and that works really well for some stories and not so well for others.

I usually don't take FC criticism too well, but even I agree. I think Final Crisis is still very good, but I think the old fashioned in me would have preferred Morrison going at least 12 Final Crisis titled issues (not just 12 if you included his Batman RIP tie-in and Superman Beyond and whatever that other tie in was). I think any Crisis should be a bit bloated and drawn out (all in a good way, like COIE) to accentuate its epic scale. In summary, Morrison needed to dial back himself in just that one area, and channel some Wolfman/Perez from COIE, be a bit more Geoff Johns for once.

[FanboyStranger]

Yeah, it's not Darkseid or the Fourth World that's the problem, but the uninspired, unimaginative, and all-too-frequent use of them. Darkseid is a wonderfully complex character, a a glorious yet horrific embodiment of authoritarianism, but most creators only use him as the big, powerful guy who acts as a punching bag to prop up heroes. This loses the nuance, complexity, and intellectual underpining of Kirby's work, something that I'd argue that only Walt Simonson really got right.

Now, I actually like Superman as part of the Fourth World mythos as he actually serves a symbol himself (despite not being an embodiment of a concept), but too often, it's just Superman duking it out with Darkseid, which wastes that symbolic and philosophic potential. (I feel that Wonder Woman can fit in here well, too, but that's rarely happened.) Likewise, when any character can tussle with Darkseid without that philosophical subtext, Darkseid becomes any other supervillain, something I find boring and a waste of a great character.

[LifeIsILL]

Well Superman only has 3 big-time cosmic villains, Darkseid, Mongul and Brainiac...which is a lot compared to other characters.

What else is there. I mean if you're gonna have a huge cosmic event who is gonna be the villain other than Darkseid? I can't think of any off the top of my head (and please don't mention Anti-Monitor).

[Double 0]

Yeah, it's not Darkseid or the Fourth World that's the problem, but the uninspired, unimaginative, and all-too-frequent use of them. Darkseid is a wonderfully complex character, a a glorious yet horrific embodiment of authoritarianism, but most creators only use him as the big, powerful guy who acts as a punching bag to prop up heroes. This loses the nuance, complexity, and intellectual underpining of Kirby's work, something that I'd argue that only Walt Simonson really got right.

Now, I actually like Superman as part of the Fourth World mythos as he actually serves a symbol himself (despite not being an embodiment of a concept), but too often, it's just Superman duking it out with Darkseid, which wastes that symbolic and philosophic potential. (I feel that Wonder Woman can fit in here well, too, but that's rarely happened.) Likewise, when any character can tussle with Darkseid without that philosophical subtext, Darkseid becomes any other supervillain, something I find boring and a waste of a great character.

I've been looking for Simonson's 4th World work for a while. Has it been collected?

[JBatmanFan05]

What else is there. I mean if you're gonna have a huge cosmic event who is gonna be the villain other than Darkseid? I can't think of any off the top of my head (and please don't mention Anti-Monitor).

Why not Anti-Monitor? It's harder to get him so wrong when he's been used much less.

As a Darkseid fan, I think I'd prefer more Anti-Monitor use and less Darkseid dilution. Or Mongul. Or Despero.


Speaking of Despero: DESPERO

He could be used more (though I have no idea how he's been used or not in the New 52).

[Outside_85]

I agree with the OP on Darkseid-exhaustion, there is just too much of him going around right now, so I kinda feel like he isn't a special event. The whole thing about Earth-2 being about another fight with Apokolips wore me out so badly I dropped E2 and havent bothered with Worlds End... also because I am quite frankly angry that DC decided to use the positive and bright Earth-2 book Robinson created that could have been used for so much more, and instead turn it into another tale of woe and failure simply to prop up a bad guy that doesn't need it.

But I also agree with those that are simply tired of badly written Darkseid stories... because I count all of his New 52 appearances under that description. And I agree that Final Crisis was the last time we had a truly awesome Darkseid, where the God was put into New God. But thats sadly a problem I feel is something thats always stuck to Darkseid, sure he is big, ugly and bad to the bone. But as a member of a race that calls themselves New Gods and styles himself as one... there's never been much from that made me think of him as anything but a another tip pot dictator from the stars.

Aside these problems, I really do wish Johns, or whoever it is thats steering the boat, would get over their own personal fanboyisness about Darkseid and remember the DCU has a sizable repetoire of villains that can be as big if not a bigger threat than Darkseid.

What else is there. I mean if you're gonna have a huge cosmic event who is gonna be the villain other than Darkseid? I can't think of any off the top of my head (and please don't mention Anti-Monitor).

Depends if you really want to stick to the 'cosmic' part.

Me, I am still waiting for the day DC decides the Teen Titans should for once fail at blocking Trigon in the doorway to Earth.