James Buchanan "Bucky" Barnes / Winter Soldier Appreciation

[tliscord]

Wasn't that an LMD?

Probably. There was a lot of love for Buck especially from Fury during Gulag, the Trial, and Seige. Not to mention that first Winter Soldier series. And Clint’s initial reservations about Bucky wielding the shield were resolved as they teamed up with the New Avengers, and again in WS’s series.

Clint was always best portrayed as a hothead but not a rogue. Always refused to kill, I loved his hawk guy persona as the well meaning f*ckup. There’s no doubt in my mind, Fraction caught lightening in barrel with his series. Too me prior to Secret Empire, Natasha filled an almost maternal roll for him (as weird as that sounds). That’s why SE was so jarring for me.

James carried his guilt over the years as an assassin closed to the surface, which made him vulnerable as he sought redemption, especially with Zemo pulling the strings. I loved the interplay between his confidence as a soldier spy and his guilt as a Russian operative. I also loved his brotherly bond with Steve. Natasha saw his self destructive elements as much as Steve did.

I sometimes think of Clint as the boy that never really grew up, despite a lifetime of opportunities to do as such; The initial death of Barney, leading the WCAs, his marriage to Bobbie. Bucky, on the other hand grew up too quickly. His tragic arc spinning out from his role as the Invaders’ scout/Ranger in WW2, and the Soviet’s weaponizing him. He was truly cast as the assassin, the person who had no boundaries in service to Cap, his country, or the greater good.

It was never clear to me what Nat got out of their relationship, unless she saw Bucky representing a simpler, more innocent time in her life.... her true first passionate love, I suppose. Either way, their duo was very organic. That series could’ve gone on for a long time given the richness of their characters. In a way, I wish Brubaker could’ve taken the property for his own and run with it.

Putting them together in a title book works for me given those traits. Whether Rosenberg can capture those essential elements of the two remains to be seen.

[OOTCS]

Probably. There was a lot of love for Buck especially from Fury during Gulag, the Trial, and Seige. Not to mention that first Winter Soldier series. And Clint’s initial reservations about Bucky wielding the shield were resolved as they teamed up with the New Avengers, and again in WS’s series.

Clint was always best portrayed as a hothead but not a rogue. Always refused to kill, I loved his hawk guy persona as the well meaning f*ckup. There’s no doubt in my mind, Fraction caught lightening in barrel with his series. Too me prior to Secret Empire, Natasha filled an almost maternal roll for him (as weird as that sounds). That’s why SE was so jarring for me.

James carried his guilt over the years as an assassin closed to the surface, which made him vulnerable as he sought redemption, especially with Zemo pulling the strings. I loved the interplay between his confidence as a soldier spy and his guilt as a Russian operative. I also loved his brotherly bond with Steve. Natasha saw his self destructive elements as much as Steve did.

I sometimes think of Clint as the boy that never really grew up, despite a lifetime of opportunities to do as such; The initial death of Barney, leading the WCAs, his marriage to Bobbie. Bucky, on the other hand grew up too quickly. His tragic arc spinning out from his role as the Invaders’ scout/Ranger in WW2, and the Soviet’s weaponizing him. He was truly cast as the assassin, the person who had no boundaries in service to Cap, his country, or the greater good.

It was never clear to me what Nat got out of their relationship, unless she saw Bucky representing a simpler, more innocent time in her life.... her true first passionate love, I suppose. Either way, their duo was very organic. That series could’ve gone on for a long time given the richness of their characters. In a way, I wish Brubaker could’ve taken the property for his own and run with it.

Putting them together in a title book works for me given those traits. Whether Rosenberg can capture those essential elements of the two remains to be seen.

That's a good way to put it. I'd add that I think what Natasha saw in him was someone she could relate to, who worked in the shadows in the same way that she did, someone who respected her without putting her on a pedestal, who supported her without smothering her, and whom she understood herself how to support and love because of their similarities.

[Techno_Knight]

Probably. There was a lot of love for Buck especially from Fury during Gulag, the Trial, and Seige. Not to mention that first Winter Soldier series. And Clint’s initial reservations about Bucky wielding the shield were resolved as they teamed up with the New Avengers, and again in WS’s series.

Clint was always best portrayed as a hothead but not a rogue. Always refused to kill, I loved his hawk guy persona as the well meaning f*ckup. There’s no doubt in my mind, Fraction caught lightening in barrel with his series. Too me prior to Secret Empire, Natasha filled an almost maternal roll for him (as weird as that sounds). That’s why SE was so jarring for me.

James carried his guilt over the years as an assassin closed to the surface, which made him vulnerable as he sought redemption, especially with Zemo pulling the strings. I loved the interplay between his confidence as a soldier spy and his guilt as a Russian operative. I also loved his brotherly bond with Steve. Natasha saw his self destructive elements as much as Steve did.

I sometimes think of Clint as the boy that never really grew up, despite a lifetime of opportunities to do as such; The initial death of Barney, leading the WCAs, his marriage to Bobbie. Bucky, on the other hand grew up too quickly. His tragic arc spinning out from his role as the Invaders’ scout/Ranger in WW2, and the Soviet’s weaponizing him. He was truly cast as the assassin, the person who had no boundaries in service to Cap, his country, or the greater good.

It was never clear to me what Nat got out of their relationship, unless she saw Bucky representing a simpler, more innocent time in her life.... her true first passionate love, I suppose. Either way, their duo was very organic. That series could’ve gone on for a long time given the richness of their characters. In a way, I wish Brubaker could’ve taken the property for his own and run with it.

Putting them together in a title book works for me given those traits. Whether Rosenberg can capture those essential elements of the two remains to be seen.

The Fury/Buck interaction where he says he never liked him is from Original Sin... #3 I think and yeah, Fury was an LMD. I remember him being fond of Buck during Brubaker's whole run, truth be told.

As for Clint, I never liked the Hawkguy persona. I liked the Fraction run, but since then less talented writers have exaggerated his take on him. He's not one of my faves, but he was a competent villain with some solid engineering feats as an Iron Man foe, and his character progression through the Avengers and Thunderbolts was interesting. Nowadays it's all "muh smol cinnamon fuck-up" and it rubs me the wrong way. Hell, same could be said for all MCU characters.

In other words; damn Normies, they ruined everything...

[responsarbre]

The Fury/Buck interaction where he says he never liked him is from Original Sin... #3 I think and yeah, Fury was an LMD. I remember him being fond of Buck during Brubaker's whole run, truth be told.

As for Clint, I never liked the Hawkguy persona. I liked the Fraction run, but since then less talented writers have exaggerated his take on him. He's not one of my faves, but he was a competent villain with some solid engineering feats as an Iron Man foe, and his character progression through the Avengers and Thunderbolts was interesting. Nowadays it's all "muh smol cinnamon fuck-up" and it rubs me the wrong way. Hell, same could be said for all MCU characters.

In other words; damn Normies, they ruined everything...

I agree that Hawkeye's gone through some major regression compared to how he evolved over the course of Avengers/Thunderbolts, and that's definitely a curse on all superheroes. I'd say Bucky is still going through the same sort of regression right now -- he didn't seem half as well-adjusted in recent appearances as he did in Captain America.

[Techno_Knight]

I agree that Hawkeye's gone through some major regression compared to how he evolved over the course of Avengers/Thunderbolts, and that's definitely a curse on all superheroes. I'd say Bucky is still going through the same sort of regression right now -- he didn't seem half as well-adjusted in recent appearances as he did in Captain America.

Bucky's plagued by the Tumblr fanbase who doesn't care about the character and just wants canon slashfics. Until the MCU falls out of style with the Normies, or those characters retire, we'll not get their classic and proper characterizations back.

[berserkerclaw]

Lets hope #101 has more bucky to off set the hawkeye focus off 100

[Winterboy]

Lets hope #101 has more bucky to off set the hawkeye focus off 100

Fingers crossed!

[Bl00dwerK]

Bucky's plagued by the Tumblr fanbase who doesn't care about the character and just wants canon slashfics.

That's one thing that scares me about Disney/Marvel getting the X-Men. The normies are gonna hit them full-force.

[Techno_Knight]

That's one thing that scares me about Disney/Marvel getting the X-Men. The normies are gonna hit them full-force.

I know. They destroyed everything apart from the X-Men and the F4. I guess now it's their turn. I bet 100 virtual bucks, Doom is gonna be character-assassinated in the coming years, Wolverine is gonna get his "secondary mutation" back, Chuck and Mags are gonna go back to square one, Emma's gonna revert to her Hellfire Club days and the status quo is going to generally come rushing back.

[Of Atlantis]

I agree that Hawkeye's gone through some major regression compared to how he evolved over the course of Avengers/Thunderbolts, and that's definitely a curse on all superheroes. I'd say Bucky is still going through the same sort of regression right now -- he didn't seem half as well-adjusted in recent appearances as he did in Captain America.

Hawkeye used to be one of my favourites growing up right up until Disassembled. Bendis did a lot of damage to him, but amid all that, he developed into a more mature character and it was nice to see that development. And as much as I liked Fraction's run, I couldn't help but feel it caused a huge regression for the character thereafter. The MCU synergy reverted Hawkeye back into a blank slate with the costume change and sudden secret agent shtick, so it would seem like Fraction's Hawkeye is now the standard, but current interpretations have almost become of parody of it, with the odd usage in events like CW2.

Now my hope for Hawkeye primarily rests in Old Man Hawkeye, though granted I did skip Occupy Avengers so I don't know what went on with him in that.

I'm worried Marvel's doing that with Bucky. He really has adapted too many movie attributes despite developing so much further than that under Brubaker, and I wonder how long Marvel can have him as an operative running around in secret until the MCU opens a new avenue for him. Zub was on the right track with him, but he fell to the mercy of Marvel's big tie-in event and went back to where he was. He's BARELY even interacted with Steve or Falcon since Brubaker. In fact, I can't even recall him interacting with FalCap ONCE. It's been disappointing.

[Bl00dwerK]

I know. They destroyed everything apart from the X-Men and the F4. I guess now it's their turn. I bet 100 virtual bucks, Doom is gonna be character-assassinated in the coming years, Wolverine is gonna get his "secondary mutation" back, Chuck and Mags are gonna go back to square one, Emma's gonna revert to her Hellfire Club days and the status quo is going to generally come rushing back.

Is it bad that I actually prefer the 1610 over the 616 nowadays? If only Winter Soldier were a part of it (trying to get back on topic!).

[Techno_Knight]

Is it bad that I actually prefer the 1610 over the 616 nowadays? If only Winter Soldier were a part of it (trying to get back on topic!).

1610 at least ended before everyone could get character assassinated. Bucky kinda, sorta was in Ultimate, just... not as the Winter Soldier.

[Of Atlantis]

1610 at least ended before everyone could get character assassinated. Bucky kinda, sorta was in Ultimate, just... not as the Winter Soldier.

I dunno about that... Lots of characters utterly fell apart before the 1610 ended. When it did, it felt almost like a mercy killing.

[Techno_Knight]

I dunno about that... Lots of characters utterly fell apart before the 1610 ended. When it did, it felt almost like a mercy killing.

Eh, you can argue they were always different enough from the 616, so it wasn't as big a blow. But at least they didn't lose everything in order to become souless puppets to dangle in front of Normies with quips and catchphrases. I mean, yeah, stuff happened. Most of the X-Men died, Magneto surpassed even his cannibalistic comments, Sue got turned into a Slut, Ben into Bendis' self-insert and Reed, well, Reed's complicated. But at least we never got two 40 year old men high fiving, saying "awesome facial hair bros" and then the internet lauding it as a TOP JOKE LEL. Ultimate made me sad. Current Marvel just makes me angry.

[Frontier]

He's BARELY even interacted with Steve or Falcon since Brubaker. In fact, I can't even recall him interacting with FalCap ONCE. It's been disappointing.

They had a very brief team-up in Standoff right before Steve got "restored."